Why would one choose Multipower instead of Variable Power Pool?

[PhilK]

I’m not sure on why someone would choose VPP over Multipower with variable cost slots?

[Lord Liaden]

If the concept you want for your character involves a relatively small number of Powers, and you want the character to have access only to those defined Powers, a Multipower can be more economical in Character Points than a VPP, and sufficient to match the concept. OTOH if the concept is that the character has a very large range of Powers, and/or is able to improvise new Power constructs to fit changing circumstances, a VPP is more flexible and may actually cost fewer points than a multitude of Multipower slots.

[Tech]

A Multipower shows at a glance what powers can be used; what have been purchased by the character. A VPP is just that- variable. Not everyone is comfortable having to decide what powers are going to be chosen during a game. This has been echoed in past previous threads. People on the boards report that some times, players whose character have VPP actually slow down the game. So, a Multipower may be an easier choice for a character with different powers.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Generally, unless you have a really generous GM, you will have more active points available for a multipower than a power pool as well, because of how expensive power pools can be.  Also, people who build multipowers usually have less flexibility and "open endedness" than a power pool provides.  In other words, they have a specific, limited group of abilities in mind rather than "whatever I can come up with in the moment"

[unclevlad]

Also remember that the base VPP does not allow powers to be changed during combat.  To get there, you need to put an advantage onto the control cost;  I usually find "requires a half phase" is more cost-effective while getting the job done.  THEN you have to buy a skill roll to do it.  With a multipower, you pick whatever you want up, each phase, without losing the half phase.

 

A decent rule of thumb is, if you're using more than about 5 fixed slots, you're getting to the point where you may want to consider a VPP.  I *rarely* use variable slots;  they're quite expensive, and if you're looking at 3...perhaps even just 2...then a VPP may be preferable.

[LoneWolf]

In some cases, a VPP may not be an option.  Personally, I put some restriction on who can use a VPP and how it has to be done.  If you are able to quickly create powers on the fly without having to reference the books or use an electronic device to write them up, I don’t have a problem with a player using a VPP without any restrictions.  If you cannot do this and want to use a VPP all powers have to be prewritten and you cannot add or modify them during the game.   I might allow you to add a power if there is no combat going on, and your character is not currently involved in what is happening.   So, if it is out of combat and the group split up and your character is off-screen, I might allow you to add a power. 

 

Also, sometimes a multipower is significantly cheaper.  Let’s say I am building a character with a gun that shoots different attacks.  Each attack is 60 active points and has an OAF.  As a multipower I purchase a 60pt pool, put the OAF limitation on it and buy 8 different attacks for 54 pts.  Doing it as a VPP I purchase a 30 pt pool with a control cost of 60 and apply the can change as a Zeor-Phase Action and No skill required, and the OAF for 75 pts.  So, until I have 15 attacks the multipower is actually cheaper.  
 

[BNakagawa]

not enough points?

[dmjalund]

Isn't a VPP a Stop Sign power? You might not have the option to choose a VPP

[BNakagawa]

Also, there are non game mechanics reasons to choose one over the other. (or, as a GM allow one but not the other)

 

If you had a player who was an a powergamer and/or metagamer or subject to analysis paralysis, I might just not allow a VPP. Purely for the good of the game, of course.

[Hugh Neilson]

12 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Also, sometimes a multipower is significantly cheaper.  Let’s say I am building a character with a gun that shoots different attacks.  Each attack is 60 active points and has an OAF.  As a multipower I purchase a 60pt pool, put the OAF limitation on it and buy 8 different attacks for 54 pts.  Doing it as a VPP I purchase a 30 pt pool with a control cost of 60 and apply the can change as a Zeor-Phase Action and No skill required, and the OAF for 75 pts.  So, until I have 15 attacks the multipower is actually cheaper.  
 

 

While true, the poster was discussing variable slots.  That would put the breakpoint between 7 slops (MP cheaper) and 8 slots (VPP cheaper).

 

I see nothing wrong with requiring any VPP powers to be written up in advance.  However, the character has infinite flexibility for those powers.  We had a fairly new player use an "attacks only" VPP with a chart for the dice available (base costs of 5, 10, 15) at various advantage levels.  That was before 6e divorced the pool and control cost, and with only one power at a time (no compound power attacks - the pool allowed it but the player never used it).

[Lord Liaden]

9 hours ago, BNakagawa said:

Also, there are non game mechanics reasons to choose one over the other. (or, as a GM allow one but not the other)

 

If you had a player who was an a powergamer and/or metagamer or subject to analysis paralysis, I might just not allow a VPP. Purely for the good of the game, of course.

 

Another non-game mechanic reason can be character concept. Sometimes a MP or a VPP just better suits the kind of character you want to play. It "looks" or "feels" right to you. CP efficiency isn't necessarily the be-all/end-all of character design.

[dougmacd]

4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

While true, the poster was discussing variable slots.  That would put the breakpoint between 7 slops (MP cheaper) and 8 slots (VPP cheaper).

 

I now want to call a fixed entry in a multipower a "slot" and a variable entry a "slop"

 

 

Doug

"I put 20 points of my slop into flight..."

[unclevlad]

4 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I see nothing wrong with requiring any VPP powers to be written up in advance.  However, the character has infinite flexibility for those powers.  We had a fairly new player use an "attacks only" VPP with a chart for the dice available (base costs of 5, 10, 15) at various advantage levels.  

 

I've done that, but slightly differently.  "Defined" might be

--Blast 12d6, 1/2 END.  PD or ED, SFX within agreed limits.  Also, I don't do "combined attacks" in a VPP either...that's the attack you're gonna use.  So slapping on a 1/4 limit...Red Pen or No KB, perhaps...on the fly isn't a problem.  And if I'm feeling lazy, I may not even write up the 4d6 RKA.  

--Blast, 8d6, Autofire 3 shots, 1/2 END

--Blast 6d6 AVAD (Power Def), 1/2 END

--Blast 5d6 NND (Power Def), Does BODY, 1/2 END, No KB (if GM allows, as this is 12.5 DCs)

--Blast, 4d6+1, NND (Power Def), Autofire, 3 shots, versus non-standard defense, 1/2 END.  (71 active.)

--Flash, 11d6, sight and hearing, 1/2 END

 

In HD, I'll use the Notes section for some comments...like, Power Def, Flash Def, Mental Def are all equal-cost.  

 

The cost of the Reduced END drops when you're piling on the pretty heavy outside advantages (NND, Does Body) so sometimes you get a bit more damage for the same points.  And obviously Autofire sets up chaos.   

 

When you get used to them...there are many cases where a VPP has the edge.  For example:

 

VPP, 25 base + 50 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Half-Phase Action (+1/2), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (87 Active Points); Heals and Harms (-1)

(56 points total)

Note:  Care Required == Extra Phase, -3/4;  1/2 DCV, -1/4
1) HEALTHSENSE:  Detect Body State (A Class Of Things) 16- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Microscopic: x10, Partially Penetrative, Rapid: x10 (5 Active Points); Full Phase, -1/2, 1/2 DCV (-1/4) 
2)   Healing BODY 2d6, Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (50 Active Points);  Care Required
3)   Dispel Poison 16d6 (48 Active Points);  Care Required    
4)   Dispel Disease 16d6 (48 Active Points);  Care Required    
5)   HA +4d6, 1/2 END, +1/4    
6)   HA +2d6+1, 1/2 END, AVAD (Power Defense; +1)     
7)   HA +1 1/2d6, AVAD (Power Defense; +1), Does BODY (+1) 

 

Notes:  I put the Sense into the VPP because it's largely a justifying power...many GMs would say the healing powers will tell you what's wrong.  Here, he's got to spend a phase.  I'm also using a more complex notion of healer types, where taking care of poisons and diseases isn't implicit.  This is still in progress somewhat, so I might pull the basic HA, as it's not a 'harm' per se (AVAD Power Def).  Also note the Limited Powers (Heals and Harms).  What's this worth?  That's TBD but this feels pretty narrow to me.  And, yeah, these are all the powers.  I don't anticipate anything else OTHER THAN perhaps a 5d6 Heal.  The limitations wouldn't change, that's concept.  (It fits the campaign.  Healing takes a moment or three.)  So why not an MP?  It wouldn't work.  The healing powers have a -1 limitation;  the harms DON'T.  So I'd need to buy a 50 point MP and I can't reduce that with Common Modifiers.  Even with the No Skill Roll Required (which is pricey as heck), the Limited Powers makes this cheaper than an MP and its slots.  If the GM rules that the Heals and Harms is only worth -1/2, then the cost would be 66 points...slightly more expensive.
 

[Ninja-Bear]

18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

CP efficiency isn't necessarily the be-all/end-all of character design.

This bears repeating, several times!