Always on- for Invisibility

[Maccabe]

Settle an old argument between me and fellow GM/player.I say that there are drawbacks to INVISIBILITY ALWAYS ON he said there wasn't.  Most of these drawbacks are social in nature but there are a few combat problems too. Am I right?  Would you allow a player to take invisibility always on?  

  Context- this was an old Champions game and I had a character who just gained invisibility as a new power and for laughs I said he had trouble controlling it.

[Chris Goodwin]

I one played a character with it. 

 

Always On is a Limitation, after all, so yes, there should be some drawbacks to it.  People don't get out of your way in crowds.  You should be very careful when crossing the street.  Are your retinas invisible, rendering you blind?  (That last would be good rationale for taking a Physical Complication; there's nothing in Invisibility or Always On requiring you to be blind.)

[Asperion]

Add to this list would be that automatic doors would not open. Not a problem for older style that was pressure plate,  but newer style that works by camera will not detect anything for the door to open. Additional problems occur when there's a breezeway at the entrance that can capture the character. 

[Hugh Neilson]

Do your teammates have area effect attacks? 

 

If teammates can't see you, they can't help you.

[Asperion]

Just now, Hugh Neilson said:

Do your teammates have area effect attacks? 

 

If teammates can't see you, they can't help you.

 

This goes for anyone attempting assistance - medical,  s&r, grief,  counseling,  etc.

[Hugh Neilson]

Well, at least they can talk to the invisible character once his presence is known. But the EMTs won't see him lying in the debris.

[Doc Democracy]

If you think about all the social drawbacks people raised about wearing masks, then this doubles down on virtually all of them! 🙂

 

Doc

[LoneWolf]

Biometric devices will not work for the character.  That could prevent him from accessing restricted areas or verifying his identity.  A voice scan would work, but things like facial recognition or fingerprint scanning will not work.  He will need a password to unlock a smart phone or have to leave it with no security.  That would also prevent many of the heath monitoring function of a phone or even more sophisticated devices from working.

 

Medical care is going to be a lot more difficult to perform on the character. He could get something like skin cancer and not even know it.  Doing surgery on him is going to be next to impossible. Even putting in an IV is going to be difficult. A low point regeneration would be highly recommended.

 

Many social interactions are going to be more difficult. For example, if he is accused of a crime, he might have a difficult time proving he was not there.   So, you say you were at home at the time of the murder?  Did anyone see your there?  No detective no one saw me.  The witnesses swear they never saw anyone shoot the victim, sounds like the killer was invisible.

 

Another huge drawback is it means the character cannot maintain a secret ID.   

 

This is just off the top of my head.  Given enough time I could probably find a lot more drawbacks.

[unclevlad]

It's also much more difficult to interact socially with anyone...including the other PCs.  How is the character supposed to be involved in the game?  I'm always leery about things like this, that might force the entire group to accommodate the situation.

 

Drew Hayes wrote a short story about a hero whose power was that everyone forgot about him...not invisible in the normal sense, but very similar.  It was always on, too.  He had a difficult life...because he was 100% alone.  It was rather melancholy.

[Steve]

There’s actually a 4th Edition Dark Champions villain with this sort of ability. As I recall, it’s invisibility versus all senses and is always on. Her crimes are drastic attempts to be noticed.

[Tech]

2 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Another huge drawback is it means the character cannot maintain a secret ID.   

 

This is just off the top of my head.  Given enough time I could probably find a lot more drawbacks.

 I wouldn't say he couldn't maintain a secret ID but it would be difficult; it depends on the campaign.

[LoneWolf]

Always on means it cannot be turned off, by any means.  If the character is permanently invisible, but can at times be seen he does not qualify for the limitation. If he could become visible by some means it would be persistent, but not always on.  A good example of that was the old TV show the Invisible Man.  In the show the character was permanently invisible, but had a mask and gloves that along with clothes allowed him to seen normally.  I think the character had to strip down naked to be invisible.  

 

The complication Secret ID is because you have to maintain a separate identity.  That identity interacts with other people.  It is incredibly difficult to interact with people without them noticing you are invisible. A secret ID of a dead or missing person does not limit the character so would not be a valid complication.  The world does not need to know your true identity, but you should not be able to take the complication secret ID.  
 

Edited March 18 by LoneWolf

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

Drew Hayes wrote a short story about a hero whose power was that everyone forgot about him...not invisible in the normal sense, but very similar.  It was always on, too.  He had a difficult life...because he was 100% alone.  It was rather melancholy.

 

 

There's an X-Men character called Forget-Me-Not who has that power.  People just don't remember him, but he's in lots of their adventures helping out and doing stuff that later seems like luck or some amazing coincidence.  Its a great concept well handled in the comics.  He does heroic things but gets no praise or notice.

Edited March 18 by Christopher R Taylor

[Gauntlet]

42 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

There's an X-Men character called Forget-Me-Not who has that power.  People just don't remember him, but he's in lots of their adventures helping out and doing stuff that later seems like luck or some amazing coincidence.  Its a great concept well handled in the comics.  He does heroic things but gets no praise or notice.

 

Hey, it's me at work...😂

[Doc Democracy]

The sudden appearance of Hope, by Claire North, is a story about a woman who s instantly forgotten by everyone.  It is an interesting examination of place in society.

[unclevlad]

16 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

There's an X-Men character called Forget-Me-Not who has that power.  People just don't remember him, but he's in lots of their adventures helping out and doing stuff that later seems like luck or some amazing coincidence.  Its a great concept well handled in the comics.  He does heroic things but gets no praise or notice.

 

The hero in Drew's story did too...but solo.  It's a very one-sided interaction;  the rest of the game pretty much can't interact with him.  Drew's story focused on the downside, of the *lack* of true interaction.  

 

And I think it's definitely something that works better in stories than it plays out in a game.

 

1 hour ago, LoneWolf said:

 In the show the character was permanently invisible, but had a mask and gloves that along with clothes allowed him to seen normally.  I think the character had to strip down naked to be invisible.  

 

Yes.  The root is a story by H.G. Wells, and only the character's body was visible.  That said...I might still allow Always On, because being naked has physical problems.  It's snowing and 25 degrees.  It's raining.  It's 110 in the shade, and there's no shade...and you want to cross a blacktop road?  Sidewalk and/or road debris.  There's also the disconnect...if you're not fully covered, then anything that should be showing, but isn't...huh?  If you are...this is from the Wikipedia article:

 

Quote

 He wears a wide-brimmed hat, a long-sleeved, thick coat and gloves; his face is hidden entirely by bandages except for a prosthetic nose.

 

That's excerpted from the character intro...which happens in a snowstorm.  Well...completely hidden by bandages, yet walking upright...that's a disconnect in itself.  But, what about summer?  That much clothing is a big disconnect.

 

Always On does mean the character can't turn it off under any circumstances, but that doesn't necessarily imply he can't mitigate the problems per se.  It does mean that mitigating it, creates *other* issues.

[Gauntlet]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Yes.  The root is a story by H.G. Wells, and only the character's body was visible.  That said...I might still allow Always On, because being naked has physical problems.  It's snowing and 25 degrees.  It's raining.  It's 110 in the shade, and there's no shade...and you want to cross a blacktop road?  Sidewalk and/or road debris.  There's also the disconnect...if you're not fully covered, then anything that should be showing, but isn't...huh? 

 

Of course if you really want to base it trying to keep everything in mind (and the need to make everything as complicated as possible) you could figure out how many points you get back by having it always on and then put a 1/4 advantage on it stating "Not when wearing clothing" take those points and add a limitation to it of OIF (clothing and makeup) and pay those points. Below would be the way you would do this:

 

Invisibility to Sight Group , No Fringe, Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)

 

With the Always On Limitation it would cost 35 Points and without the Limitation it would cost 52 Points giving a reduction due to the Limitation of 17 points

 

You would then add a 17 point custom power with the limitation OIF.

 

Wearing Clothing:  Buying off Always On Limitation for Invisibility (17 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

 

With the Limitation, to buy off the Always On Limitation with an Obvious Inaccessible Focus, it would cost 11 Points.

[Doc Democracy]

19 hours ago, Gauntlet said:

 

Of course if you really want to base it trying to keep everything in mind (and the need to make everything as complicated as possible) you could figure out how many points you get back by having it always on and then put a 1/4 advantage on it stating "Not when wearing clothing" take those points and add a limitation to it of OIF (clothing and makeup) and pay those points. Below would be the way you would do this:

 

Invisibility to Sight Group , No Fringe, Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Always On (-1/2)

 

With the Always On Limitation it would cost 35 Points and without the Limitation it would cost 52 Points giving a reduction due to the Limitation of 17 points

 

You would then add a 17 point custom power with the limitation OIF.

 

Wearing Clothing:  Buying off Always On Limitation for Invisibility (17 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

 

With the Limitation, to buy off the Always On Limitation with an Obvious Inaccessible Focus, it would cost 11 Points.

 

I definitely would not make the player have to put anythign on the sheet to accomodate that clothes he wore, or things he carried did not go invisible - I might even, depending on the game, give a discount on the invisibility for that.

 

Doc

[Gauntlet]

2 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

 

I definitely would not make the player have to put anythign on the sheet to accomodate that clothes he wore, or things he carried did not go invisible - I might even, depending on the game, give a discount on the invisibility for that.

 

Doc

 

I agree, I was just giving the option for GMs that wish to have absolutely everything written up (i.e. make everything as complicated as possible). I have seen some GMs, even rather GOOD ONES, that have a like for number crunching.

Edited March 19 by Gauntlet