Is your voice a "sense"?

[Wyld]

I was looking through the UMA book the other day and was trying to figure a way to silence someone with a martial maneuver, like a strike to the throat.

 

I would like your thoughts on my ideas:

1) Martial Flash might work, but I'm not sure if one's voice is considered a "sense";

2) A Strike with the "Disable" modifier, in this case disabling the head.

 

What do you think? Anyone have any other ideas? I would prefer to saty away from actual "powers" and have it built as a martial maneuver.

 

Wyld

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

It's sort of a "transmit" of the hearing sense, right?

[tkdguy]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

I wouldn't consider voice as a sense. If an opponent has an attack that comes from his/her voice like Howler does, use a Dispel or Suppress in addition to a Killing Attack. Remember, a strike to the throat can crush a person's trachea (sp?), which could lead to his/her death.

[devlin1]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

I'd say it's a 1d6 Minor Transform, using Standard Effect.

[Vorsch]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Sory devlin but you used the magic word transform.

 

If hitting a human in the throat (-4-6 ocv) does not gain the effect of silencing the victim by SFX and common sense alone, and you feel forced to use transform, then i truly pity you.

[Sean]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

If hitting a human in the throat (-4-6 ocv) does not gain the effect of silencing the victim by SFX and common sense alone, and you feel forced to use transform, then i truly pity you.

And if the person struck is in a suit of powered armor? or any of a multitude of other logical exceptions?

 

I'd say it largely depends on the campaign. If Incantations is a common limitation then that kind of special effect is very powerful if used to incapacitate spellcasters. I'd say it depends on the campaign context.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

I'd say no ... senses recieve information, your voice is a projector and not a reciever.

[TheEmerged]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Personally, this is in my Ninja Powers bag of tricks as Darkness to Sound, Usable As Attack, only to block outgoing sound (-1). It is then stacked with either Uncontrolled or Continuing Charges. Not very expensive at all, and UAA means it will require a normal OCV/DCV roll and stay with the victim as s/he moves. Under the new multiple-power-attack rules it can therefore be stacked with a regular attack.

 

As for that "if you have to make it cost points I pity you" crack -- constantly giving players free powers will cause problems.

 

Editted to reduce a potential flame.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

As for that "if you have to make it cost points I pity you" crack -- constantly giving players free powers will cause problems.

 

Editted to reduce a potential flame.

 

Well, yes, but not as serious a problem as only giving free powers to some of the players. ie "The Martial Artist can have this benefit for free, but energy projectors have to pay for it."

 

"Is Voice a Sense" is, to me, a different question than "Is Voice a sense". It is not a sense as in dictionary defnition. However, Hero Enhanced Senses do include transmitting. High Range Radio Hearing and Active Sonar, for example, include transmissions as well as receiving. If a maneuver could blind the target, is that less powerful than one which can rob him of his ability to speak? And doesn't "choke hold" already provide that effect, albeit only as long as the attack is maintained? The approach suggested seems a reasonable one for a precision attack.

 

How can someone else do this? Well, they can learn martial arts and a similar maneuver. I would also permit a character to target the throat and receive a similar effect, with a duration similar t that of the martial attack. Yes, you can do it, bit the martial artist pays for a maneuver that allows him to do this without the targetting penalty. Seems reasonable, with no playtesting.

[devlin1]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

As for that "if you have to make it cost points I pity you" crack -- constantly giving players free powers will cause problems.

I agree. So will being condescending towards me. Yeah, I'm talkin' to you, Vorsch! Cripes.

 

The guy's looking for a way to build the power, not someone to come along and tell him, "Ah, don't worry about it." He can do that on his own.

 

 

Editted to reduce a potential flame.

Ditto.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

FREd p229, very bottom of left hand column, asks that very question.

 

it's a 20pt Power, it has Sense Like attributes - can be silenced by a Darkness vs. Hearing field for instance, or you're prevented from using it if your Invisible to Hearing Group. (To be honest I thought 20pts was high when I first read that, until I realized that human interaction is almost ALL voice - this after I played a mute for a session, that was harder than I thought.)

 

How you go about depriving someone of Voice is a matter of the special effects of an attack if you'd like - a successful strike to the throat (I'd give that a -10 to hit at least) could do it for a few phases. Perhaps in order to take effect enough STUN or at least a Pip of BODY has to get through.

 

Or you could go about building an actual power around it...

 

Suppress Voice would work, linked to a Martial Strike of some kind.

Darknes vs Hearing only to affect Voice would work.

 

there are others.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

According to the rulebook (see FREd page 299), Voice can be considered a "Sense" for game purposes. Therefore Martial Flash should work fine for the maneuver in question.

[badger3k]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

I'd make it a power for points. Depending on the game/genre/campaign, silencing an individual can have a big effect (ie - sonic powers, magic with the incantation limitation, etc). I would go with the darkness or dispel/supress versions, probably with a NND (throat armor) type mod on it for a hand strike.

 

If you really need to keep it as a martial maneuver, then I'd go with the more expensive (which is probably the disable - too lazy to get out my book). How you'd cost it to keep it balanced for the powers I gave above, I'm not sure - that's potentially a lot of power for a small cost (unless it only lasts one phase for major npcs perhaps, and longer for mooks).

 

Just my 2 copper coins.

[Sociotard]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

FREd actually comes out and says that voice can be considered a sense.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Keep in mind, too, that the base damage for Martial Flash is 4d6, so it will affect most heroic-level characters for only one Phase. In a superheroic campaign, where SPD is typically higher and Extra DCs for Martial Arts are more frequent, it will have its effect for more Phases, but the profundity of its effect will be much less frequent (most opponents will operate just fine without being able to speak).

[GamePhil]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

As was said, the Martial Flash should do this fine, because it is considered a Sense. If you want to also do damage, use a Multiple Power Attack and combine the Flash maneuver with some form of Strike.

 

The only problem with this is that if the target has throat armor, Flash Defense should not also be required, so some form of restrictive element may be appropriate.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

As was said, the Martial Flash should do this fine, because it is considered a Sense. If you want to also do damage, use a Multiple Power Attack and combine the Flash maneuver with some form of Strike.

 

The only problem with this is that if the target has throat armor, Flash Defense should not also be required, so some form of restrictive element may be appropriate.

You can change the defense of any attack to a defense that's just as common as a -0 Limitation, or for a more common for a -1. So you can build a Flash that's versus PD. Although for a neck strike, you might just say it's defense if "solid, rPD on the neck" instead of Flash Defense with no modifier.

[GamePhil]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

You can change the defense of any attack to a defense that's just as common as a -0 Limitation' date=' or for a more common for a -1. So you can build a Flash that's versus PD. Although for a neck strike, you might just say it's defense if "solid, rPD on the neck" instead of Flash Defense with no modifier.[/quote']

 

True enough.

[caris]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

According to the rulebook (see FREd page 299)' date=' Voice can be considered a "Sense" for game purposes. Therefore Martial Flash should work fine for the maneuver in question.[/quote']

 

Yes, but in the rules FAQ under Flash, the power, it states that a Flash does not stop senses with Transmit, from transmitting. It recommends darkness to do so.

 

Personally, I would go with the disabling option. It does not seem any more abusive than a Joint Break would be in a campaign where the gesture's limitation is very common.

[GamePhil]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Yes, but in the rules FAQ under Flash, the power, it states that a Flash does not stop senses with Transmit, from transmitting. It recommends darkness to do so.

 

I did not know that. I think that deviating from the FAQ is warranted in this case, since I don't see a balance issue in disabling the voice briefly with a Martial Flash instead of hearing (not both at once). Further, Powers to do this will be overpriced for the effect, assuming you don't believe Martial Arts are underpriced, anyway

 

Personally, I would go with the disabling option. It does not seem any more abusive than a Joint Break would be in a campaign where the gesture's limitation is very common.

 

This is also an option, of course, but leaves out a middle ground step. That is, it is more difficult to successfully succeed at than the proposed Martial Flash, and also has long term effects. If what is desired is a brief coughing fit that prevents speech, it does not do this.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

I did not know that. I think that deviating from the FAQ is warranted in this case' date=' since I don't see a balance issue in disabling the voice briefly with a Martial Flash instead of hearing (not both at once). [/quote'] I tend to agree.

[Foxiekins]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Actually, I would consider someone's Voice to be the Images power... Affecting the Hearing Group...

[caris]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

I did not know that. I think that deviating from the FAQ is warranted in this case' date=' since I don't see a balance issue in disabling the voice briefly with a Martial Flash instead of hearing (not both at once). Further, Powers to do this will be overpriced for the effect, assuming you don't believe Martial Arts are underpriced, anyway [/quote']

 

Well, I was trying to keep my bias against the costs of Martial Arts maneuvers out of this whole thing. I don’t disagree that it isn’t unbalancing to do it as a Flash, but I’m just finding it less satisfying, on the whole. Also I find the idea of house ruling that a head/neck Impair/Disable damage can disable a voice, more easy to implement consistently than allowing an exception for one specific Flash attack. It really is a YMMV situation, since either choice does require some house ruling.

 

This is also an option' date=' of course, but leaves out a middle ground step. That is, it is more difficult to successfully succeed at than the proposed Martial Flash, and also has long term effects. If what is desired is a brief coughing fit that prevents speech, it does not do this.[/quote']

 

Depends on what you consider “briefâ€. The Disable element still allows you to Impair the target body area, which means that it can have a temporary effect. Granted the temporary effect is anywhere from a turn to a full day, but that is why it is a little more difficult to do. Still doing at least half your target’s Body shouldn’t be too difficult, depending on how you build the maneuver.

[GamePhil]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Depends on what you consider “briefâ€. The Disable element still allows you to Impair the target body area' date=' which means that it can have a temporary effect. Granted the temporary effect is anywhere from a turn to a full day, but that is why it is a little more difficult to do. [/quote']

 

If Impairing were to be the method chosen, but the duration was considered to be to long potentially, I'd suggest just applying the Standard Effect Rule to the Impairing duration roll, having it be a 3 (or lower, if preferred).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Is your voice a "sense"?

 

Personally, I wouldn't go with the Disable option, since from what I've seen in movies and such, the loss of voice only lasts a few seconds unless the character has received a severe wound. (One exception: the opening fight in Jet Li's Fist of Legend, but that was healed using a counter technique). Such a wound would not only prohibit talking, but also breathing and likely cause quite a bit of bleeding (but not always).