What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

[Demonsong]

What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

I am looking for a mythical average and as long as where at it lets cover all the bases?

 

Minimum-Average-Maximum

 

If no set limits just guess

 

For….

 

1- D6 Normal Damage:

 

2- Killing Attacks:

 

3- PD/PDr (ED/EDr):

 

4- Mental Defense:

 

5- Other Special Defenses:

 

I tend to make all my characters have high defenses and I was just curious how lopsided I was.

 

Thanks

 

Demonsong

[Trebuchet]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

In our campaign the average standard attack is around 12-13d6. Top is 15d6; bottom is 10d6.

 

Only one character in our team has a Killing Attack, which is small (2d6) but Double Penetrating Total Code vs Killing is the norm; in fact only one PC has no CvK at all.

 

Average PD is around 20-24; average Resistant PD is around 15.

 

Several characters have some Mental Defense; usually IIRC about 8-12 points. Three PCs have Power Defense. Two have Flash Defense.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

I normally recommend character Defenses at 1.5 to 2.5x the average Damage Class attack in the game, centering on 2x. So for example, in a DC 12 average campaign Defense runs from 18 to 30, centering on 24. Resistant Defenses are 1/2 to 2/3 of that total. Killing Damage average for the campaign is usually kept one DC below the Normal Damage average.

 

Mental Defense (for characters who justify it) maxes out at the average DC of Mental Powers in the campaign, e.g. 12 points in a DC 12 game (plus Figured).

 

Flash Defense is usually around 5 points, rarely more than 10. Power Defense doesn't come up that often, and I've rarely allowed more than 10 points of it for PCs, unless it's Limited to a particular special effect.

[lemming]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

My Game:

Attacks: 13-20d6 (with some über attacks going > 30d6)

Defenses: 20-50 with varying amounts of damage reduction, 1/2 to full damage resistance

Mental Defense: Fairly low in comparison, but not too many mental powers have been shown.

Power Def: I have no idea.

Flash Def: 5-15 depending on concept. Some heroes & villians don't have any.

 

I tend to run toward more heavy defenses.

-------

Zornwil's game, it's only been in the last few games my character has stayed consious after being hit once. But I'll let him explain...

[nexus]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

Bay City Blues

attacks:9-12d6

Defenses:18-30

Flash Defense:0-5

Mental Def:0-5

Power:No one has it.

 

Defenders/Brigade

attacks:10-12

Def:20-30

Flash Defense:0-10

Mental:0-10

Power:0-5

 

Paragons:

Attacks:10-15

Defense:20-35

Flash:0-5

Power:0

Mental:0-10

 

I have some others but those are off the top of my head.

[Agent X]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

I am looking for a mythical average and as long as where at it lets cover all the bases?

 

Minimum-Average-Maximum

 

If no set limits just guess

 

For….

 

1- D6 Normal Damage:

 

2- Killing Attacks:

 

3- PD/PDr (ED/EDr):

 

4- Mental Defense:

 

5- Other Special Defenses:

 

I tend to make all my characters have high defenses and I was just curious how lopsided I was.

 

Thanks

 

Demonsong

In a 250 point game right now (guessing):

1) (Av. of 5 players) 11d6

2) (Just 2 players) 8 damage classes with either armor piercing or penetrating

3) 22/15 (22/15) Really guessing on this one

4) I don't think anyone has mental defense

5) I don't know of anyone who has special defenses

 

In a 350 point game recently played:

1) 14d6

2) 4d6

3) 30/20 (30/20)

4) Those who had it probably ran around 10 points

5) Some special defenses around 5 to 10 points worth

[Christougher]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

4th Edition, 250 pt Heroes

 

1 - 10d6 min, 12d6 avg, 15d6 max

2 - 3d6 max

3 - 20/10 avg, 40/25 is highest

4 - Base 5 points+EGO, about 50%

5 - Base 5 points maybe 1/3.

 

6 - OCV <10 too low, 12 avg, 18 is highest I recall seeing.

[Lightray]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

1 - 9-12d6, average 10d6

2 - 3d6+1K average

3 - 12-18 Def, 5-12 rDef (deliberately lower to shorten combats)

4 - only 2 PCs have Mental Def, at ~10 each

5 - few PCs with special defenses, mainly ~5 Flash Def

 

I'm actually running a campaign where the players have characters at different power levels. Higher-powered characters have about the same DCs in attacks (but more of 'em), but +25% to +50% more defenses.

[Solomon]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

In my current 350-pts campaign:

Main attacks average just shy of 60 active points.

Normal defenses average 20 PD and 20 ED.

[Chudwine]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

For most of the true "Superhero Level" games I have run or played in, we end up with a soft cap of around 12 damage classes. (12d6 EB, 6d6 Ego Attack, 4d6 RKA etc). If a character is especially flexible or has a significantly higher

speed than other characters, he might lower his damage classes a bit. Some characters might have "signature maneuvers" the exceed the limit but they can either only be used very rarely or at great cost to the character.

 

As for defenses it depends on how the character is defined as defending himself.

 

A character with generic defenses (like a standard energy blaster) will usually be set up so he can take take an average attack without being stunned and can normally take 3 blows without going down. (Default for this would be something like a Con of 23 and PD & ED in the 25 range and Stun ranging from 40-50.) It is rare for a 12d6 normal attack to exceed 48 points of damage, so the character is normally not stunned but 15-20 damage leak through on average per attack.

 

Characters who are designed to avoid being hit will have lower defenses and and normally designed so that one average 12d6 attack will stun the character and a second will knock him unconscious. (18 Con, 15-20 PD & ED and 30-35 Stun).

 

And the standard damage sink character (which is normally a brick but does not have to be) will normally be trivially easy to hit but capable of taking 6-7 blows before going down (28 Con, 30-35 PD & ED, 55-65 Stun).

 

These are just guidelines and only cover physical and energy defenses. Damage Reduction alters the guidelines quite a lot as well. Players are encouraged to be flexible in designing the character's defenses to avoid "cookie-cutter" characters. One thing that we insist on is that every character must have some sort of weakness (no one is allowed to take all of the exotic defenses at high level).

[Metaphysician]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

AP of attacks range from 75-120 in our campaign. DCs follow about the same range, for both normal and killing ( about half our firepower is VPP-derived, so it can take either form anyway ).

 

Defense varies alot, and is tough to categorize in straight PD/ED values, for various reasons. Our most fragile individual has about 16/6r PD and ED, IIRC, but even he has some extras ( specifically, Damage Reduction vs Stun only ). Our toughest character has a combination of defense, damage reduction, and damage absorbtion sufficient that anything less than about 36 Body or 60 Stun bounces off without effect.

 

Mental defense-wise, I think we have one character with none at all, everybody else has at least 10 points. Two of our team members ( coincidentally, the two characters mentioned above ) have enough mental defense that even Menton isn't mindzapping them.

 

Power Defense is universal, I'm pretty sure we all have at least 5 points. I think one of us has about 25 points Hardened x2 of it.

 

Oh, and for the record, only two of the six of us have a CvK, and only one of them is Total ( IIRC ).

[Chuckg]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

Re: CVKs...

 

Horus-Re and the Warmaster have no CVKs -- merely their own particular warrior codes of honor, and the Warmaster's oath to abide by the law.

 

Princess Cyrande has no CVK either, and is in fact the most morally neutral person in the group.

 

Warp has a moderate CVK, but has an Enraged that sometimes overrules it.

 

Microman -- as well you know, as he's your character -- has an almost but not completely total CVK.

 

And Starguard, my own character, has been known to throw Usable By Others At Range defenses on the villains, in the middle of a fight, to keep them from taking BODY damage.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

In Crusadeverse,

 

average attack: 12d6

average defense: 20PD/ED

average SPD: 5

 

A fair amount of variance exists in the groups. The higher DEX characters basically have lower overall defenses(though even the lowest defense character has missle reflection). The low SPD character does much more damage(15-19d6), but obviously has fewer chances to do so. Only one character in my campaign has a CVK, though killing is not encouraged in my campaign.

 

Rob

[Blue]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

1- 12D6 Normal Damage:

 

2- Killing Attacks: 3-1/2D6K

 

3- PD/PDr (ED/EDr): 24/15

 

4- Mental Defense: 3pts

 

5- Other Special Defenses: 3pts

 

That's strictly the average. The average for Mental/Special defenses is brought down by the fact that many players have none of at least one type.

 

It all balances out pretty well so far.

[TheEmerged]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

I'd place the average for all attacks (normal, killing, NND, etc) around the 75 active point mark. I have one PC that can do a 19d6 Move Thru fulling buffed (he has Absorption into STR), and another with a multiform mode with an 85pt VPP and a second multiform mode that *can* reach 100 STR if she's willing to spend a lot of END (her remaining 14 modes are in the 60-75 pt range).

 

As for SPD, all of the PC's have a 6 (except for the multiformer which has a single 8 SPD mode). NPC's range from 4-8, with a couple of documented 10's and 12's.

 

For defenses I have a set system I've mentioned several times, and the PC's are generally around the expected area. It works well for the kind of combat I like.

 

Active Cap == the maximum active point cost for a damaging power or the pool size of a framework. Individual powers can exceed this unless they deal damage.

 

Minimum: build an Energy Blast equalling the active cap with a +1 Advantage. Multiply the dice that result (7.5 for my campaign) by 2 and you have the minimum DEF score a PC should have without a Darn Good Reason. That's 15 DEF for my campaign.

 

Maximum: build an EB equaling the active cap with no advantages. Multiply the dice that result (15 for my campaign) by 3 and you have the maximum DEF score a PC should have without a Darn Good Reason. That's 45 DEF for my campaign.

 

"Expected"/"Normal": build an EB equalling the active cap with a +1/2 advantage. Multiply the dice tht result (10 for my campaign) by 2.5 and you have the "expected" or "normal" DEF score a PC should have without a Good Reason -- not to be confused with the harsher Darn Good Reason standard. This comes out 25 DEF for my campaign. The prototypical energy blaster in my campaign for example might have a 20 PD but a 30 ED for example.

 

Special -- Power and Flash Defense. As a rough standard, take the above numbers, cut them in half, and round up to the nearest multiple of five. In the case of "minimum" it shouldn't be read as everyone has this score, but rather that anyone bothering to purchase the special defense will purchase at least that much. That comes out 10 -- 15 -- 25 for my campaign.

 

Mental. An odd bird, since damaging powers against it tend to involve fewer dice but it has several dangerous powers using normal costs. In my own campaigns I use MD as a figured attribute instead of a power and as such anything with a mind has at least some MD. Generally I use the "Special" Minimum score and the "Normal" Maximum; that comes up 10 and 45 for my current campaign.

[Metaphysician]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

Actually, I don't *technically* have a CvK in the traditional sense of the word, though I do have an appropriately strong reluctance to kill on moral grounds.

 

What I have are specific hard written safety protocols that I have to meet in order to use lethal force. Basically the same conditions ( threat to others, inability to stop it with lesser force ) as most people use, but with somewhat stricter assessments. One of the safeties put in by Dr Collins.

 

Its just written up as a CvK since it works more like a CvK mechanically than a Physical Limit.

[Fedifensor]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super?s campaign?

 

This is from my campaign guidelines. If I can ever get out of this d20 world and back to Champions, this is what I'll use. They're based off the survey posted way back in the 4th edition Big Blue Book, where the average campaign attack was 11d6, and the average defense was 25.

 

Basically, I link speed to attack strength, and DCV to Defenses. That way, neither damage output nor overall defensive capability are too strong. The Maximum Attack column is for special attacks that are limited in some way, such as a once/day power.

 

Power Levels (General Guideline)

 

Speed Attack Power Range Maximum Attack

4 12-14 DC (12d6 to 14d6) 15 DC (15d6)

5 10-12 DC (10d6 to 12d6) 13 DC (13d6)

6 8-11 DC (8d6 to 11d6) 12 DC (12d6)

7+ 7-10 DC (7d6 to 10d6) 11 DC (11d6)

 

Defenses DCV

28-30 PD/ED 7-

24-27 PD/ED 8

20-23 PD/ED 9-10

18-20 PD/ED 11

[zornwil]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super?s campaign?

 

Well, I don't know if this will explain lemming's frequent prior unconsciousness (aren't you unconscious in the current battle yet?), but anyway, currently (bear in mind two PCs have VPPs, listed are the PC's "typical" version of stuff):

 

1- D6 Normal Damage: There are many different attacks; between mental, supernatural, and transforms, the actual APs range from 75 to 120; typical normal attacks range from 12d6 to 15d6, with the junior member, at 8d6, but for some with a bonus +6d6 from one character who turns into stone and other objects usable as an attack

 

2- Killing Attacks: almost none of these, mainly 2 characters really have them, and they're special purpose mostly

 

3- PD/PDr (ED/EDr): 38/30 (38/30), 17/15 (19/15) (this one has other spells from an MP which may add), 16/15 (22/15) (this one has also has Dam Red 50% normally), 23/18 (22/18), other PC is nigh-invulnerable but usable only in limited ways in different multiforms

 

4- Mental Defense: 20, 5, 9, 2, 2

 

5- Other Special Defenses: Supernatural Defense (takes place of Power Defense and relates to expanded supernatural attack class) 15, 11, 9, 24, 3

[ChuckB]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

Our game started during 4th ed. , so we had those restrictions for the most part (30 rDEF and 12d6 DC starting max) even though our original characters didn't really hit those limits.

 

Nowadays it's around 25 rDEF and 14d6.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

First... I suck compared to some of the games out there... and we are 350 points.

 

1: 12d6 but that includes our Brick in Density Increase + Haymaker mode which is 26d6.

 

2: 0d6 unless The Inventor changes his VPP to make one.

 

3: 15/12r (16)/(13)r - Jane has no PDr, just obsurd DCV

 

4: 3 w/ Mentalist 0 w/o. Null is Cybernetic Class mind and usually immune

 

5: Density Increase on Spirit, Damage Reduction on Spirt, Damage Reduction (Silver Only) on Jane, and Nanotech Regeneration on Null.

 

I now have the highest EDr in the game, althought it is 4 EDr Damage Resistance, 6 EDr Armor Hardened, 6 EDr Armor Ablative. I'm going to be upgrading that next XP spree from 6 EDr Armor Ablative to 6 EDr Armor. Then it is going to go in the Hardened Armor. It sucked getting hit for 12d6 Energy and knocked out for half of combat.

[Trebuchet]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

First... I suck compared to some of the games out there... and we are 350 points.

 

1: 12d6 but that includes our Brick in Density Increase + Haymaker mode which is 26d6.

Your team brick has a STR of 110?! (Man, ours' player worries she's getting too powerful with a 70 STR. I gotta show her player this thread.) BTW, I don't think most players used Haymakered attacks as part of the average attack calculations for this thread. I know I didn't. A Haymaker is pretty much by definition not "average."

 

Your group has a very low average PD/ED; more what I'd expect from a group of martial artists than a typical team. Is your team heavy on martial arts?

[lemming]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

Your team brick has a STR of 110?! (Man, ours' player worries she's getting too powerful with a 70 STR. I gotta show her player this thread.) BTW, I don't think most players used Haymakered attacks as part of the average attack calculations for this thread. I know I didn't. A Haymaker is pretty much by definition not "average."

 

Your group has a very low average PD/ED; more what I'd expect from a group of martial artists than a typical team. Is your team heavy on martial arts?

 

I wonder if SS is using old Haymakers?

 

Not that there's anything wrong with 110 STR bricks...

 

Let's take a character from Sam Bell's Protectors, Scales.

1. 29D6 Normal Damage, (Punch, no augmentation, though with old style haymakers, 60d6 could be done without too much effort.)
   
2. Killing Attacks; He didn't, but getting hit with 15d6 RKAs was not uncommon
   
3. PD/PDr (ED/EDr): Base 65/65, FDR, 1/2 Damage reduction
   
4. Mental Defense: 25 base
   
5. Other Special Defenses: 20 in each (all defenses were 2x hardened)
   

Note: Augmentation was a 60 point VPP

There. Now everyone can relax thinking they're in a low powered game.

[Metaphysician]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

I wonder if SS is using old Haymakers?

 

Not that there's anything wrong with 110 STR bricks...

 

Let's take a character from Sam Bell's Protectors, Scales.

1. 29D6 Normal Damage, (Punch, no augmentation, though with old style haymakers, 60d6 could be done without too much effort.)
   
2. Killing Attacks; He didn't, but getting hit with 15d6 RKAs was not uncommon
   
3. PD/PDr (ED/EDr): Base 65/65, FDR, 1/2 Damage reduction
   
4. Mental Defense: 25 base
   
5. Other Special Defenses: 20 in each (all defenses were 2x hardened)
   

Note: Augmentation was a 60 point VPP

There. Now everyone can relax thinking they're in a low powered game.

 

How many points is this guy built on??

[lemming]

Re: What is the average attack and defense in your super’s campaign?

 

How many points is this guy built on??

When he was first built 265. The last time he was used as a straight PC, 980. Sam made a version for when we were running a no points mainly as an NPC at 1350. Actually weaker, but well rounded. Think if Ben Grimm was Sorceror Supreme...