What do you call "Four Color"?

[bubba smith]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Iron Age never existed,

 

nope,

 

it didn't.

 

Never happened

 

 

 

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.....

what makes you say that?

[Clonus]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

 

That said, I think the term "four-colour campaign" is a misnomer, as it refers to a magazine production process that was in use for over 50 years. As such, it could cover a lot of ground.

 

It does. Four Colour covers superheros all the way from the Golden Age into the Bronze.

[assault]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

And of course it's an overstatement to say that four-colour precludes all killing. It precludes the heroes killing' date=' but doesn't totally prevent villains killing. Four colour is not synonymous with "Silver Age".[/quote']

 

Nor is Silver Age synonymous with nobody gets killed.

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Whose parents did Robin kill?

 

The other way around. The Flying Graysons died in front of several hundred people during a time of happiness and joy. But apparently, THAT'S OK, while throwing the people that did the deed off buildings in the dead of night, where no one else will get hurt by falling people bits, is somehow WORSE.

 

They're BOTH horrific to me...

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Nor is Silver Age synonymous with nobody gets killed.

 

Perhaps not, but a lot of the 'deeper' or more 'personal' aspects of humanity and the horrors that they cause are often glossed over. Plenty of romance, but it's mostly playful and sex is ignored or barely alluded to. A fight between power houses usually has someone prefacing on how all the civvies are safe from harm, or it's in an 'abandoned' location, so they can go crazy, or the heroes are ALWAYS successful at preventing any major damage.

 

And when someone dies it's a HUGE thing, bigger than it should be, usually causing more angst that a Vampire the Masquerade convention full of manic depressives on a down swing.

 

Again, the big thing is how happy and light it all is, to the point of being cheesy and sappy 80's kids cartoons. I admit, I liked the Care Bear movies, but the shows were insipid and treated kids like idiots. Idiots they are not. And this does not interest me.

[Spence]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

The other way around. The Flying Graysons died in front of several hundred people during a time of happiness and joy. But apparently, THAT'S OK, while throwing the people that did the deed off buildings in the dead of night, where no one else will get hurt by falling people bits, is somehow WORSE.

 

They're BOTH horrific to me...

 

But the context of the acts are completely different. The FG's died at the hands of a villain or bad guy. For a good guy to hurl someone off the build is not only killing but the good guy surrendering his moral grounding.

 

To better illustrate the point as seen by the old world (or my version of 4 color):

 

1) A masked gunman firing an automatic weapon into a crowd = bad

2) A policeman returning fire that hits and kills the afore mentioned gunman = distasteful but necessary.

3) A policeman shooting the afore mentioned gunman after he is arrested and handcuffed = worse than being the gunman.

 

The death of the Graysons is like #1. Robin tossing the guy off the roof is #3.

 

Of course this is all just opinion.....

[The Main Man]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

I'm not exactly sure how "guns and spikez and leather and fightin' the machine are teh awesome" isn't just as insulting to one's intelligence...

[Spence]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Perhaps not, but a lot of the 'deeper' or more 'personal' aspects of humanity and the horrors that they cause are often glossed over. Plenty of romance, but it's mostly playful and sex is ignored or barely alluded to. A fight between power houses usually has someone prefacing on how all the civvies are safe from harm, or it's in an 'abandoned' location, so they can go crazy, or the heroes are ALWAYS successful at preventing any major damage.

 

And when someone dies it's a HUGE thing, bigger than it should be, usually causing more angst that a Vampire the Masquerade convention full of manic depressives on a down swing.

 

Again, the big thing is how happy and light it all is, to the point of being cheesy and sappy 80's kids cartoons. I admit, I liked the Care Bear movies, but the shows were insipid and treated kids like idiots. Idiots they are not. And this does not interest me.

 

But you aren't talking about four color either. At least not the ones I remember and pattern my games after. The four color comics I remember had the same ethical code as most of the serials I remember. In those days it wasn't 'wrong' for the good guy to shoot the bad guy with cause. And they just didn't dwell on everyone shacking up.

 

In a supers game I am there to play supers, not snore in the corner while a couple people in the game try to play act a nonexistant romance. There are a ton of RPG's that are aimed at that. I am there to pit may superhero against the forces of EVIL, or to allow other players to pit their superheros against my villains nefarious plots.

 

It is also why 99% of the Iron Age is non-existant to me. If I want to wallow in real world nastiness I just turn on the TV or read a newspaper.

 

If others want to then fine. Go forth and have fun. Play Iron, Bronze, Arsinic Age all you want. But I'll stick with my Four Color games and that eras media version of morality with Superman, Commander Cody, the G-Men of the Untouchables and so on.

 

[assault]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

And when someone dies it's a HUGE thing' date=' bigger than it should be, usually causing more angst that a Vampire the Masquerade convention full of manic depressives on a down swing.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure where you're getting this from.

 

Lightning Lad's death was a big deal to his friends. Well, duh. They were his friends. Proty's sacrifice that brought LL back to life was a big deal too.

 

Superman not being able to save Krypton or the Kents was a reliable tear-jerker. but it certainly wasn't a bigger deal than it should have been. (It might have been milked a bit too hard, but that's another issue.)

 

How many anonymous crooks and their victims were killed off? Who knows! Usually, of course, the heroes weren't the ones doing the killing, except by accident, but even in the latter case no great angst was indulged in.

 

The biggest Silver Age example I can think of was in the Teen Titans, when they abandoned their costumes and the use of their powers after failing to prevent the death of Dr Swenson. But that, as it happens, was part of the transition to the Bronze Age, with the shift away from camp and towards "relevance".

 

OK, so that was an example of deep suck. But it wasn't exactly typical.

 

There are other examples from the Bronze Age, of course. Green Arrow had an episode in the early 70s, and Superman had one in the mid 80s. But the Silver Age, as such, rarely featured it.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Here are the elements I think are key in defining a world as "4-color"...

• Superhero Trappings: The PCs and their adversaries generally wear outlandish costumes, masks, and so on. The necessity of such things is rarely questioned.
  
• The Good Guys Are Good: Heroes don't "sink to the level" of villains. They don't use their powers to kill or to obtain personal wealth, etc. This doesn't have to mean that they're goody-goodies (Batman is still 4-color under this definition)... it just means that dividing line between heroes and villains is clear (usually very clear).
  
• Expanded Suspension Of Scientific Disbelief: Quasi-scientific babblespeak that sounds cool is much more important than actual plausibility. You say a bolt of lightning struck a shelf full of forensics chemicals, resulting in you being able to run at the speed of light? Sounds good!
  
• Expanded Suspension Of Societal Disbelief: Although some 4-color stories touch on the effects of superhumans on society, they're generally no where near as severe as such effects would be in reality.
  

Plus, of course, the kind of stuff they discuss in the Champions book...

 

It's great when my peers save me typing time. QFT.

[Katherine]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

What's interesting is much of this is the same in so called "Iron Age" settings

 

Here are the elements I think are key in defining a world as "4-color"...

• Superhero Trappings: The PCs and their adversaries generally wear outlandish costumes, masks, and so on. The necessity of such things is rarely questioned.
  

 
Goes without saying
 

The Good Guys Are Good: Heroes don't "sink to the level" of villains. They don't use their powers to kill or to obtain personal wealth, etc. This doesn't have to mean that they're goody-goodies (Batman is still 4-color under this definition)... it just means that dividing line between heroes and villains is clear (usually very clear).

 
The heroes in allot modern comics are the Good guys in their settings. They don't follow the traditional mold of superheroes of the past, they may have more flaws or at least more visible ones but they are heroes though they'll be more active, even pro active in pursuit of their goals, use of lethal force (or at least death) is more common place as writer's fiat isn't employed as much to avoid it.
 
The Ultimates, Hyperion and most of the characters in Supreme Power, The early Authority, etc, were characters trying to make the world a better place and helping people, risking their lives (literally) to do so. Yes, that had sex, (sometimes kinky), took recreational drugs and acted on their baser impulses from time to time and yes, they definitely killed opponents.
 
And these weren't portrayed as necessarily being bad things or making them bad people or not heroes. It was a different mindset from most earlier images of superheroes as being somewhat conservative and upright or those that weren't as being flawed with issues to overcome (Tony Stark's drinking, for example).
 
There was allot of so called "Deconstruction" during the modern era that picked apart and smirked at the very core concepts of heroics and superheroes in particular but I don't feel that constitutes the entirity of and motive behind the so called "Iron Age". There was garbage and bad writing in every "age".
 

Expanded Suspension Of Scientific Disbelief: Quasi-scientific babblespeak that sounds cool is much more important than actual plausibility. You say a bolt of lightning struck a shelf full of forensics chemicals, resulting in you being able to run at the speed of light? Sounds good!

 
Technobabble and pesudoscience still rule the roost. The buzzwords have just changed. Now instead of the rack of chemicals or radiation it's malfunctioning alien nanonmachines or genetic engineering.
 

Expanded Suspension Of Societal Disbelief: Although some 4-color stories touch on the effects of superhumans on society, they're generally no where near as severe as such effects would be in reality.

 

The Authority was particularly blatant about this. In the first few issues, major cities were destroyed, a country (Japan) was essentially wiped off the face of the Earth, the world was invaded from another dimension and all other sort of global devestation occurred.

 

and never really seemed to change anything more than similar occurrences in the Marvel or DC universe. For all the Engineer cured so many forms of cancer or the Doctor's spiritual enlightment took hold, the Wildstorm univerrse looked pretty much the same as ours beyond a few more high tech elements here and there (bioncs were more widely available, there was some really high tech on the open (or black) market, etc).

 

There's really not allot of room for anyone to get on a high horse about their particular preferred mood/style as being more "realistic", IMO. It comes down what you find fun to read and role play because it feels right to you and idea of verisimilitude and consistency.

[Vulcan]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

(Cyan and magenta are close enough to blue and red that this had led to the myth that red' date=' blue and yellow are the "Primary Colours")[/quote']

 

On a technical note, CYMK (cyan, yellow, magenta, black) are the standard colors for printing. Those four color inks in combination can be used to duplicate any color on a print (after all, even modern printers and photocopiers use the same four colors as the old-style comics. Why? Because it works really well!)

 

However, RGB (red, green, blue) is used on TV's and monitors, because those three color lights can be used to create any color on a screen.

 

RGB referred to as primary colors refers to light, not to inks.

[Clonus]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

The other way around. The Flying Graysons died in front of several hundred people during a time of happiness and joy. But apparently' date=' THAT'S OK, .[/quote']

 

For a villain, sure. Villains do villainous things. But Robin wasn't a villain. Not until Jason Todd showed up.

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

For a villain' date=' sure. Villains do villainous things. But Robin wasn't a villain. Not until Jason Todd showed up.[/quote']

 

At the time, neither was Dick Grayson a 'Hero'. He was, along with Batman at the time, a VIGILANTE. But no one seems to realize this, wanting them to conform to a more serious version of the 60's show, or the 90's Animated Series.

[SilentMan]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

A) Morality is Clear Cut. There are very little shades of grey. Like all faery tales, the villain gets his just deserts in some fashion.

Frankly, there is one villain who is much more annoying than Joker in that regard. It is often asked why Batman does not kill Joker but locking him in Arkham is a kind of punishment, even for a short while.

 

That villain is Dr.Doom. He has caused all kinds of havoc and yet there is always: "he has diplomatic immunity"-********.It should work for the first time sure but not unlimited times.

 

Then there is the excuse that Doom is too powerful to defeat but if FF can handle him, multiple hero teams together should as well and back then Doom was not that tough.

 

Written by Rene

 

Victor Von Doom is the Fantastic Four's greatest enemy, and aknowledged as the most dangerous supervillain Earth has seen. Surprisingly, the early Lee/Kirby version of Doom isn't a powerhouse. His armor is not emphasized, and he is much more of a manipulative mastermind. His plans are always devious and dangerous, but when he is faced with a direct physical confrontation, he is bested with comparative easy.

It is one thing when heroes fail to catch the villain but when the US Government always tell them that villain must be allowed to escape....

[bubba smith]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Frankly, there is one villain who is much more annoying than Joker in that regard. It is often asked why Batman does not kill Joker but locking him in Arkham is a kind of punishment, even for a short while.

 

That villain is Dr.Doom. He has caused all kinds of havoc and yet there is always: "he has diplomatic immunity"-********.It should work for the first time sure but not unlimited times.

 

Then there is the excuse that Doom is too powerful to defeat but if FF can handle him, multiple hero teams together should as well and back then Doom was not that tough.

 

It is one thing when heroes fail to catch the villain but when the US Government always tell them that villain must be allowed to escape....

well said

[Guest steamteck]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

 

There's really not allot of room for anyone to get on a high horse about their particular preferred mood/style as being more "realistic", IMO. It comes down what you find fun to read and role play because it feels right to you and idea of verisimilitude and consistency.

 

 

Well, said. I'll rep you when I can.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

Frankly, there is one villain who is much more annoying than Joker in that regard. It is often asked why Batman does not kill Joker but locking him in Arkham is a kind of punishment, even for a short while.

 

That villain is Dr.Doom. He has caused all kinds of havoc and yet there is always: "he has diplomatic immunity"-********.It should work for the first time sure but not unlimited times.

 

Then there is the excuse that Doom is too powerful to defeat but if FF can handle him, multiple hero teams together should as well and back then Doom was not that tough.

 

It is one thing when heroes fail to catch the villain but when the US Government always tell them that villain must be allowed to escape....

 

 

He probably would have been invaded by now. I'm sure many of his plots constitute acts of war.

[bubba smith]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

well put steamteck

[Silbeg]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

I'm working on "six color"--4 color with shades of gray, and the occasional touch of the absurd(my opening run had sharks with laser beams attached to their heads).

 

Or "Justice League meets Adult Swim, as shown on HBO"

Sharks? With laser beams? Classic... um, wait... doesn't that remind me of a certain movie, where there were replaced by ill-tempered sea bass?

[BNakagawa]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

CMYK of course.

 

 

 

 

I equate the four color mentality with the old school philosophy of sportswriting, which held that the personal lives of sports stars didn't belong in the papers as long as they didn't bring it up.

 

So for superheroes, they are superheroes in public and nobody should nag at them about their politics or religion or anything as long as the superhero doesn't bring up those subjects.

 

If WonderWoman wants to address gender issues, then that's ok, because she started it.

[Hagadorn]

Re: What do you call "Four Color"?

 

I've seen alot of people trying to define 'Four-Colour' here.

 

I'm sticking with my idea.

 

1: Good is good, bad is bad.

2: Bad guys will never win.

3: Any hero who does kill someone, will invariably become a villain/vigilante.

4: Everyone is stupid... So very stupid.

5: Its boring... As the proverbial Mammalian Feces.

 

Ignore me.