assault Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 I would like to hear peoples' opinions on the following matters: (a) What happens if a Silver Avenger stops having Cyberline treatments? ( How much variation would you allow between different Silver Avengers' physical characteristics? For example, could one SA be noticeably stronger than average? If so, how much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I would like to hear peoples' opinions on the following matters: (a) What happens if a Silver Avenger stops having Cyberline treatments? ( How much variation would you allow between different Silver Avengers' physical characteristics? For example, could one SA be noticeably stronger than average? If so, how much? (a) There powers might slowly start going away. Or, prehaps nothing except for an adictive craveing for Cyberline. Your call. ( Yes, there should be vareation. I sergest a twenty-point spread for each physical charatistic. If this is to much for you, try a 10-point spread. And remember that mental charatistics can varie greatly, depending on training and personal intelagence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Here is John Wrath from my Millennial Men campaign. John Wrath, Solo Avenger When the campaign started he was a crusty veteran, the oldest and longest serving Silver Avenger. He eventually got "retired" from PRIMUS in play due to butting heads with the MC Station Chief and the Director of PRIMUS. http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=260499#MillMenWrath As far as the Cyberline goes, the basic boost of the treatment is basically the same -- moderate super strength and durability, however individual beneficiaries vary in the exact form and the degree to which they have those abilities, and some will have quirky variations. For example, John Wrath isnt as strong as some of the other SA's, but he is hard to kill and has great reflexes. He also has a couple of quirks not typical of other Cyberline recipients, in that his aging process is slightly retarded and he heals quickly. It doesnt wear off with time. Thats part of the secret of it. It's called a "treatment" but its not ongoing -- its a permanent alterations. Cyberline is just the CU version of the Super Soldier Serum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I would favor having the effects of Cyberline be permanent. As for characteristic spreads, I'd tend to keep it about 5 points under normal circumstances, 10 points max. Before getting the treatment, every SA should have average stats in the mid teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I would favor having the effects of Cyberline be permanent. As for characteristic spreads' date=' I'd tend to keep it about 5 points under normal circumstances, 10 points max. Before getting the treatment, every SA should have average stats in the mid teens.[/quote'] That spread would pretty much cover all the Silver Avengers published to date, including those in Shelley Chrystal Mactyre's PRIMUS sourcebook. (BTW I would heartily recommend that e-book for anyone wanting a significant PRIMUS presence in their campaigns. It does for PRIMUS what the VIPER and UNTIL books do for those organizations. Well... maybe not quite as much as those books, but you still get a lot of good stuff for $9.95.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I'm inclined to agree with the permanent effects and 5-10 point spread arguments. I just wanted to get a feel for everyone else's opinion. I'm considering having PRIMUS train a Silver Avenger for Australia. The idea is that Australia is a close ally of the US, and doesn't have a lot of supers, so the US government might be willing to collaborate with the Australian government in this. I'm having trouble thinking of a suitable code name for him though. All I've come up with so far is the following quote: "My boss and I came to an amicable agreement. He agreed not to call me Captain Australia, and I agreed not to cram his desk where the sun don't shine." I'm considering adding him to my "potential personal PC" file, as well as using him as an NPC. Hence my concern about his name - I don't want it to be something I wouldn't use for my own PC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Call him the Aussie Avenger. Or, since he's a spin off from the Silver Avenger, and Golden Avenger is taken, maybe the Stainless-Steel Avenger? The Titanium Avenger? The Iron Avenger? I dont know. The Metal of Choice Avenger just makes sense thematically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Considering the usual Silver Avenger costume and iconography, "Southern Star" wouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps "Silver Star," with the seven-pointed Australian star as his emblem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Howabout "Phantom" or "Silver Phantom" if he's from the Australian SAS (they got the nickname "Phantoms of the jungle" in Vietnam). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I would favor having the effects of Cyberline be permanent. As for characteristic spreads' date=' I'd tend to keep it about 5 points under normal circumstances, 10 points max. Before getting the treatment, every SA should have average stats in the mid teens.[/quote'] This is how I've always handled it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers One note -- the US government might not want to publicly advertise that their Silver Avenger technology helped augment Australia's new superhero. Or else every other nation will whine about not getting one. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steriaca Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers That spread would pretty much cover all the Silver Avengers published to date' date=' including those in Shelley Chrystal Mactyre's [i']PRIMUS[/i] sourcebook. (BTW I would heartily recommend that e-book for anyone wanting a significant PRIMUS presence in their campaigns. It does for PRIMUS what the VIPER and UNTIL books do for those organizations. Well... maybe not quite as much as those books, but you still get a lot of good stuff for $9.95.) Me, I am waiting on someone to do a great book on SAT (Special American Tactics, the preacesor to PRIMUS who is/was still in existance) myself. Of course, it is tempting to make them like the G.I. Joe line of toys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers If a Silver Avenger's stats/powers don't drop if they go off Cyberline, why do they still take it at all? Why do they needs all these continuous (And Expensive!) treatments? Shelly M had a real Iron Age answer for this in her E-Book, but what if you are playing a more silver age game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Two answers occur to me: -Periodic upgrades. Specifically, those new doses carry slightly improved versions of Cyberline. -Cover. PRIMUS wants everybody to *think* Cyberline needs maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I wasn't aware they needed to keep taking the stuff... Wasn't there a rogue Avenger at some point (killed the Golden Avenger even)? Or am I imagining things again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers In 4e, there were three rogue Silver Avengers -- Darin "Vengeance" Falswell (defected to Genocide), Lyndon "Red Shield" Kaufman (defected to Red Doom), and Kevin Armstrong (defected to VIPER). In the case of two of them -- Falswell and Armstrong -- their new patrons had the resources to provide them with duplicates of the Cyberline booster shots. (VIPER via its own genetics labs, and Genocide via its government moles in PRIMUS). In Kaufman's case, he suffered a power loss that the best efforts of the Soviet government could only partially alleviate... he was still metahuman, but less so than an 'active' Silver Avenger would be. None of them ever killed the Golden Avenger, although at least two of them (Falswell and Armstrong) had the ambition to. In 5e, there is only one renegade Silver Avenger -- Kevin Armstrong, now "VIPER-X" of Dragon Branch. Who is, yet still, operating off of VIPER's own resources re: superhuman biochemistry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers As for killing the Golden Avenger, In Shelly M's absolutely great PRIMUS E-Book the first Golden Avenger was killed and one of the silvers was "upgraded" to take his place. She has said on her website that she wanted to use PRIMUS as the good guys and didn't think anyone would ever accept the old GA as anything but a nazi facist & she needed to put a kinder face on their big public spokesman. In her book the first Golden Avenger was killed by Eurostar during an attack on Washington DC. I think it was either Fiacho or Durak who landed the killing blow. What all this has to do with the modern 5th Ed Champions Universe is anyone's guess, but her new Golden Avenger and Steve's Golden Avenger have the same real name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckg Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers I dunno how Robert Kaufman died in 5e continuity, or if he ever existed at all, but in our campaign's timeline we had the first Golden Avenger biting it during the Battle of Detroit. Fortunately, the more far-flung Silver Avengers didn't deploy for that one, so DJ and the rest remained alive... and DJ had seniority among the survivors, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers In 5e' date=' there is only one renegade Silver Avenger -- Kevin Armstrong, now "VIPER-X" of Dragon Branch. Who is, yet still, operating off of VIPER's own resources re: superhuman biochemistry.[/quote'] Funny, V:COTS doesn't mention anything about using their superhuman biochemistry resources to keep Armstrong avenger-buffed. Doesn't say anything at all, except that he was spending a lot of time in Africa without special recources and didn't say he got weaker during that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Champions U states the Cybeline treatment isn't so much a chemical change as a genetic one. So there's not any reason to beleive they'd lose their abilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Two answers occur to me: -Periodic upgrades. Specifically, those new doses carry slightly improved versions of Cyberline. -Cover. PRIMUS wants everybody to *think* Cyberline needs maintenance. I go with the "cover" angle. If the populace knew Cyberline was a 1 time shot permanent improvement there would be a lot more concern over controlling possible "rogue" avengers in some sectors, and on the other side of the coin some would ask why members of the general public that were compatible couldnt be recipients. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers i guess youw ould still need maintainace shots and medical supervision to ensure nothing untoward happend with the cyberline treatment especially considering some of the strange environments, chemicals, lifeforms and energies a silver avenger might be exposed to during active duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted July 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Re: Opinions wanted on Silver Avengers Considering the usual Silver Avenger costume and iconography' date=' "Southern Star" wouldn't be a stretch. Or perhaps "Silver Star," with the seven-pointed Australian star as his emblem.[/quote'] Howabout "Phantom" or "Silver Phantom" if he's from the Australian SAS (they got the nickname "Phantoms of the jungle" in Vietnam). These are all good ideas. I was already considering "Southern Star". The "Phantom" line of thought is kind of amusing, since local reprints of Lee Falk's "The Phantom" have been available for eons, and have even been supplemented by some local work. Hmm... On other contributions to the thread: I'm very fond of Red Shield. I've got him hanging around in Cuba these days, training young supers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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