The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

[Gary]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

I get 54 points. 3d6 RKA is 45 points. 45 points x 2.5 in Advantages is 112 points. 112 - 45 = 67. 67 / 1.25 = 53.6 = 54.

 

You're right.

 

I disagree. Tripled defense costs only seem to affect those powers that affect the taking of BODY. On every automaton I could find, Damage Resistance, Damage Reduction, Armor, and the like was tripled, but Knockback Resistance wasn't. None of them had Flash Defense, but being an automaton doesn't affect things like Flash Attacks, I think it's priced normally. As for the Regen... I typed that wrong initially, and since I kept copy and pasting that power set, repeated the error.

 

Per the FAQ:

 

Page 222 — Shirak the Destructor's Knockback Resistance should cost 108 points, not 36 (due to the x3 cost of Defense Powers for Automatons with the Takes No STUN Power). That makes its Total Powers And Skills cost 995, his Total Cost 1,489, and his Experience Points 1,219. (These changes should be mirrored in the summary charts.)

 

Page 223 — The Lemurian Golem's Knockback Resistance should cost 36 points, not 12 (due to the x3 cost of Defense Powers for Automatons with the Takes No STUN Power). That makes its Total Powers And Skills cost 350, his Total Cost 467, and his Experience Points 207. (These changes should be mirrored in the summary charts.)

 

Page 224 — The Chala-Lion's Damage Resistance and Knockback Resistance should cost 30 and 36 points, respectively, not 10 12 (due to the x3 cost of Defense Powers for Automatons with the Takes No STUN Power). That makes its Total Powers And Skills cost 321, his Total Cost 464, and his Experience Points 199. (These changes should be mirrored in the summary charts.)

 

Also,

 

Q: Does a Force Wall count as a power an Automaton with Takes No STUN must pay triple cost for?

 

A: Yes. The same applies to all Defense Powers, including Missile Deflection/Reflection and Knockback Resistance, and things like Combat Luck.

 

Nope. The energy Absorption has Does Not Work Against Light-Based Attacks (-1/4), which explains why it is cheaper than the physical Absorption.

 

OK, I missed that.

[steriaca]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

THE NAPOLEON OF CRIME

Oh, and to be honest, Foxbat has already sewn up the "criminal nut" category fairly tightly.

 

True...but who do you know is the Hero equivlent of Inspector Clusoe? *Hint Hint...you were working on him Unhint Unhint*

 

Of course, if *I* did a proper homage to the 'great' inspector, I woulden't make him a split personality who's other personality is a super vilien. Instead, I would give him a lot of crappie 8- skills, and tons of Luck.

[steriaca]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

VLAD THE IMPALER

6) Assessment: Vlad is listed as a Bulgarian character, which is fine, except for one small problem -- Vlad Tepes, a.k.a. Vlad the Impaler, a.k.a. Vlad Dracul, a.k.a. Dracula, came from Wallachia, which is located in Romania! So, while Bulgaria has plenty of vampire mythos, I really doubt that anyone would name themselves after someone else's national hero (and yes, Vlad Dracul is somewhat of a hero in parts of Romania).

 

In some ways, Vlad is actually pretty sound. He's much like Sebastian Shaw of the Hellfire Club (Marvel's X-Men). He is a mutant, who absorbs energy and uses it to make him stronger. It works fairly well as a concept, except Vlad is terribly overpowered.

 

Basicly put, he is a mutant who thinks he is a vampier...and his given name is real Vlad...so why not name yourself after the most populer vampier you know of? What else is he going to name himself after? Lestrat?

 

Still, I would of proably named his something semi-original. Prehaps Lord Vite or Baron Fang.

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Q: Does a Force Wall count as a power an Automaton with Takes No STUN must pay triple cost for?

 

A: Yes. The same applies to all Defense Powers, including Missile Deflection/Reflection and Knockback Resistance, and things like Combat Luck.

 

Well, that answers that question. Looks like Glacier may win the unofficial "biggest point difference" contest.

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

True...but who do you know is the Hero equivlent of Inspector Clusoe? *Hint Hint...you were working on him Unhint Unhint*

 

Uhm... you've lost me. The Napoleon of Crime's Secret ID is Inspector Kluso, which is an obvious take off on Inspector Jacques Clouseau of Pink Panther fame. Is that what you're talking about?

[steriaca]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Uhm... you've lost me. The Napoleon of Crime's Secret ID is Inspector Kluso' date=' which is an obvious take off on Inspector Jacques Clouseau of [i']Pink Panther[/i] fame. Is that what you're talking about?

 

Yep. It is just that I can't spell to save my life. Or the lifes of others.

 

Basicly, when I first looked at him, he reminded me of the superior which Clouseau drove insain.

 

And, you know that Inspctor Kluso will never find The Napoleon of Crime...but how long you think it will take him to realise that (being that the Inspector has a split personality...and both of them are rather bad personalities at that)?

[JayH]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Designer's Notes:

1) Rebuilt Silhouette's Shadowform power by Linking all secondary powers to her Invisibility. The Desolidification remained a separate power, with all Limitations defined per 5th Edition.

 

Regarding her Shadowform, I also thought a comment on the usefulness of combining darkness with invisibility might be in order. How will anyone know she's invisible? Or... if you can see through the darkness you can see her too. Either the invisibility is a waste of points or the darkness gives her away.

 

Since you usually mention the most colossal wastes of points in your critiques, I thought this might have popped up.

 

Love what you've done here. Super kudos on the obvious hard work!

[SleepyDrug]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Is this a 5th edition conversion for the 4th edition EE?

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Is this a 5th edition conversion for the 4th edition EE?

 

Basically. It also corrects major errors and mistakes. It does not make the characters useful and/or playable to any great degree -- it just makes them "legal" per 5th Edition Rules.

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Regarding her Shadowform, I also thought a comment on the usefulness of combining darkness with invisibility might be in order. How will anyone know she's invisible? Or... if you can see through the darkness you can see her too. Either the invisibility is a waste of points or the darkness gives her away.

 

Since you usually mention the most colossal wastes of points in your critiques, I thought this might have popped up.

 

Love what you've done here. Super kudos on the obvious hard work!

 

Hmm... good point. I think the idea was to create a moving shadow, which is a cool idea, it just needs some major work to get the right effect. Desolid is fine, but you need to add in Images (to look like a shadow), and maybe Invisibility (to sound?).

[Metaphysician]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Basically. It also corrects major errors and mistakes. It does not make the characters useful and/or playable to any great degree -- it just makes them "legal" per 5th Edition Rules.

 

An important proviso, IMHO. In fact, doesn't the one still kill itself in one turn??

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

No... I fixed that one.

[JmOz]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Hmm... good point. I think the idea was to create a moving shadow' date=' which is a cool idea, it just needs some major work to get the right effect. Desolid is fine, but you need to add in Images (to look like a shadow), and maybe Invisibility (to sound?).[/quote']

 

As a GM I would probably allow the look of the shadow to be a freebee F/X for Desol, Invisibility is a yes

[Metaphysician]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

I worked on Bastion at around 3:00 AM as i couldn't sleep. Apparently this meant I forgot to add as well. Anyway, I have made the changes and you will find Bastion's character sheet reposted here with all corrections made.

 

 

 

That's too much like work.

 

Okay, I'm not trying to be a smartass here, but, simply correcting them is my goal, not rebuilding them to be more useful or combat effective. I figure people can add or subtract powers as needed using these versions as a basis. Or in the case of some people, start over from scratch.

 

Anyway, the revised Bastion:

 

THE BASTION OF BUDAPEST

Val	CHA	Cost	Roll	Notes
13	STR	3	12-	Lift 150 kg, 2 1/2d6 HTH Damage
15	DEX	15	12-	OCV:  5/DCV:  5
18	CON	16	13-
10	BODY	0	11-
18	INT	8	13-	PER Roll 13-
23	EGO	26	13-	ECV:  8
10	PRE	0	11-	PRE Attack:  2d6
8	COM	-1	11-

8	PD	5		Total:  8 PD (0 rPD)
8	ED	4		Total:  8 ED (0 rED)
5	SPD	25		Phases:  3, 5, 8, 10, 12
7	REC	0
36	END	0
26	STUN	0		Total Characteristics Cost: 101

Movement:	Running:  6"/12"

Cost	Powers & Skills
70	Telekinetic Powers:  Elemental Control, 140-point powers
174	1) Entangle 6D6, 6 DEF, BOECV (+1), Takes No Damage From Physical Attacks (+1/4), 	Works Against EGO, Not STR (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) plus RKA 
1d6, BOECV (+1), NND (defense is Self-Contained Breathing; +1), Does BODY (+1), 
+1 Increased STUN Modifier (+1/4), Continuous (+1), Reduced Endurance 
(0 END; +1/2); Linked (-1/2)
70	2) Force Wall (14 PD/14 ED), Hardened x2 (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2)

Perks
2	Contact:  Hungarian Government Official 11-
3	Fringe Benefit: Federal Police Powers

Talents
3	Absolute Time Sense
5	Eidetic Memory
3	Lightning Calculator
4	Speed Reading (x10)

Skills
2	AK:  Hungary 11-
2	CK:  Budapest 11-
13	Bureaucratics 16-
3	Cryptography 13-
2	Language:  English (Fluent Conversation)
0	Language:  Hungarian (native)
3	Lip-reading 11-
359	Total Powers & Skill Cost
460	Total Character Cost

200+	Disadvantages
15	DNPC:  Adopted Niece 8-(Incompetent)
25	Enraged:  When children hurt (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 8-
15	Hunted: Hungarian Government (MoPow, NCI, Watching) 14-
10	Physical Limitation:  Nearsighted, Wears Glasses (F, S)
20	Psychological limitation:  Always Obeys Orders of Superiors (C, T)
10	Psychological limitation:  Frightened of Losing Custody of Niece (U, S)
15	Psychological limitation:  Never Endangers Children (U, T)
10	Reputation:  Hungarian National Hero, 11-
15	Social Limitation:  Public ID (F, M)
125	Experience

460	Total Disadvantage Points

Designer's Notes:

1) Bastion paid 6 points for 13 STR. Corrected to 3 points.

 

2) I placed Bastion's Force Wall and Entangle into an Elemental Control. Using the rules for a BOECV Entangle found in 5th Edition, I added the Advantages of Takes No Damage From Physical Attacks (+1/4), and Works Against EGO, Not STR (+1/4). I also placed the Linked RKA into the first slot of the Elemental Control, and properly spelled out the NND defense (I hope) as all the original states is "Life Support."

 

3) The errata sheet states that Bastion should only pay 3 points for Absolute Time Sense (instead of 13 points). I made the correction.

 

4) No die roll was given for Bastion's Area Knowledge's. As he only paid 2 points per skill, I gave him and 11-.

 

5) Bastion paid 5 points to have Bureaucratics on a roll of 16-. This was adjusted to 13 points. ([10/3] +9 = 11- for 3 points. +5 to the roll for +10 points.)

 

6) Bastion's Cryptography roll was originally a 12-. His INT makes it a 13-.

 

7) Removed Bastion's Distinctive Features. "Short and Bald" is no longer valid in 5th Edition.

 

8) Edited all other Disadvantages. In some cases, this meant a change in Disadvantage point value as I went with the wording of the Disad and not the listed point value. I'd like to point out that a "proper" 5th Edition adaptation of Bastion should have his Reputation as a Perk, not a Disadvantage. The author of European Enemies handed out Reputations like candy, and often used them as another form of character description. Shrike is a perfect example, with her Reputation(s) of bridge player and speedster.

 

9) The original version of Bastion cost 477 points. He now costs 460, an 17 point decrease. Most of the savings came from placing his telekinetic powers in an Elemental Control. The original version of the character sank 322 points into his Entangle, Forcewall, and Linked RKA, while this version spends a "mere" 314 (an 8-point difference).

 

10) Assessment: Meet Bastion, who believe it or not, is probably the most solid character concept in the entire book. His powers have a logical set of special effects, and his personality shows some creative thought. The biggest flaw is how over powered he is. He doesn't pay any Endurance for his powers and his Force Wall is Hardened twice! Personally, I'd drop his SPD to 3, give him 1/2 Endurance on his powers, remove the BOECV Advantage from Slot 1 of his Elemental Control and make it Area of Effect (Hex). Also, his Force Wall could loose a level of Hardened and the savings should be pumped into making it larger, so he can protect more people. This would make him a far more balanced (and hopefully 350-point) superhero.

 

Oh, as a final note, Bastion is listed *after* Black Druid and Blackjack in the book, despite the individual characters supposedly in alphabetical order.

 

 

Okay, sorry for the thread necromancy, but. . . the correction is probably incorrect.

 

I assume based on what you've written that the Entangle is essentially wrapping the guy in a force wall?? Well, in that case, BOECV refers to the fact that its targetted using ECV rather than CV, ala BOECV Telekinesis. This doesn't require that it work versus Ego, and SFX wise, that wouldn't make any sense.

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Okay, sorry for the thread necromancy, but. . . the correction is probably incorrect.

 

I assume based on what you've written that the Entangle is essentially wrapping the guy in a force wall?? Well, in that case, BOECV refers to the fact that its targetted using ECV rather than CV, ala BOECV Telekinesis. This doesn't require that it work versus Ego, and SFX wise, that wouldn't make any sense.

 

I just built according to the vanilla rules in 5th Edition. I wasn't going to try and interpret the intent behind the character designs. Those things are wonked to heck and back.

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Dr. Orpheus: Arise! Arise! ARISE OH HALLOWED THREAD!!!

 

Ahem... for those who care, I've been punching these EE revisions and corrections into Hero Designer (with some interesting results), and will be reposting the final edits to my webpage in due course, as well as the HD files, so you too can... uhm... do something with these guys.

 

That is all.

[RobCRogers]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Dr. Orpheus: Arise! Arise! ARISE OH HALLOWED THREAD!!!

 

Ahem... for those who care, I've been punching these EE revisions and corrections into Hero Designer (with some interesting results), and will be reposting the final edits to my webpage in due course, as well as the HD files, so you too can... uhm... do something with these guys.

 

That is all.

 

Great! Keep us posted.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Your debugging notes actually make some of these guys usable (e.g. the Huntsman of the Black Forest has shown up a few times in my campaigns), so by all means keep 'em coming.

[Grimble]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Thanks, Susano! You did a great job on these conversions!

 

 

Grimble

[Sundog]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Mucho gracias, Susano. I don't know if I'll ever use any of these guys (save perhaps for inspiration), but it's nice to have them available.

[Mathew]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

2) The errata sheet can and will override rule 1. Corrections given in the errata will be made to the character sheet before the final revision is made.

 

Does anyone still have the official errata sheet for this book?

[Susano]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Yes.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Your debugging notes actually make some of these guys usable (e.g. the Huntsman of the Black Forest has shown up a few times in my campaigns)' date=' so by all means keep 'em coming. [/quote']

 

Well...I think the vast majority of them COULD be useful in one way or another, but some just require more effort than others to work in.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

Does anyone still have the official errata sheet for this book?

 

It's currently Attached to this post: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/80461-Is-there-a-running-thread-for-minor-corrections-on-old-books?p=2035262#post2035262

[Deadborder]

Re: The horror, the horror. European Enemies "debugged."

 

And yet, Floodgate is in CO. Make of this what you will...