The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

[Kristopher]

This is your last warning. If you have not seen the movie, and don't want to read any spoilers, then leave this thread. If we ruin the movie for you, it is your own stinking fault. If you haven't seen it yet, your first priority should be to go to a theatre and watch it. Now.

 

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OK.

 

I loved this movie.

 

Given the normal way such twists work out in the genre, I thought Mirage's change of heart was a refreshing switch, as was the fact that she didn't end up dead. Did anyone notice what her superpowers were? (Do you think she had any powers?) Given the way she comes and goes, it might be the ability to go unnoticed.

 

I was very happily surprised to see a hero actually take out the villain who threatened to come back and attack the hero's family again.

 

And this really wasn't the 4-color or Silver Age movie I kinda expected. Syndrome actually killed off a lot of superheroes. Agents died. Mr Incredible used lethal force to protect his family.

 

Did anyone else see Syndrome's cape and think "something's going to happen with the cape at the end", given Edna Mode's rant about capes? And unlike Dynagirl (I think that was the name given), who might have had the powers to survive a trip through a jet engine, Syndrome is very likely dead -- unless he activated a ZPE field around himself...

[zornwil]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I thnk Syndrome (Sindrome? - I saw someone else on the board spell it that way) might be alive, although I'd hope they'd save that for a 3rd or 4th sequel and not just have a rematch too soon.

 

What I thought was interesting throughout is there were so many tropes, even cliches, of the genre but they were well-used. Since the Watchmen the cape thing has almost become its own new cliche, oddly.

 

As to characters dying, yeah, but to me it was very Golden Age dying, no blood, no fuss, and they were always in very critical circumstances. Nobody was killed when there was a reasonable alternative.

 

I thought Mirage's change of heart was cliche, but very well-done and justified, it was paced and explained just right, which is hard to do. As to her abilities, I wonder, I got the impression she might have some pheremonic charm that the movie left as a subtext, and to your point and her name, yeah, perhaps she has some illusory powers, dunno.

[SirViss]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I got the Impression that Mirage was more like a "James Bondian" Super-spy, and that was her code-name. Not a super, but then again supers had gone "underground" for 15 years.

 

She was the one that found Mr. Incredible and Frozone, right?

[Kristopher]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

RE: Mirage -- I guess I've read/watched so many stories in which the switch is a betrayal of the heroes, or in which a switch is just a setup or scam against the heroes, that it surprised me when Mirage's change of heart was genuine. It also surprised me that she seems to have gotten away with it, because the archvillain's lieutenant that turns on him ends up dying more often than not, it seems.

 

I agree with you about the killing/dying in general.

 

Elastigirl / Helen seemed to be the most competent super in the movie. Whoever said that she made stretching powers cool was dead on. She can really think on her feet, too. Great piloting skills. The whole sequence after Edna goes off on her was impressive. I was thinking, "Wow, she's really good at this superhero thing." Calling in "the solid", her chatter on the airplane's radio, etc.

[Kristopher]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I got the Impression that Mirage was more like a "James Bondian" Super-spy, and that was her code-name. Not a super, but then again supers had gone "underground" for 15 years.

 

She was the one that found Mr. Incredible and Frozone, right?

 

Yes, she was.

 

Speaking of Bond, I absolutely loved the musical score and the Bondian touches to the island lair and the script in general.

[zornwil]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

RE: Mirage -- I guess I've read/watched so many stories in which the switch is a betrayal of the heroes, or in which a switch is just a setup or scam against the heroes, that it surprised me when Mirage's change of heart was genuine. It also surprised me that she seems to have gotten away with it, because the archvillain's lieutenant that turns on him ends up dying more often than not, it seems.

 

I agree with you about the killing/dying in general.

 

Elastigirl / Helen seemed to be the most competent super in the movie. Whoever said that she made stretching powers cool was dead on. She can really think on her feet, too. Great piloting skills. The whole sequence after Edna goes off on her was impressive. I was thinking, "Wow, she's really good at this superhero thing." Calling in "the solid", her chatter on the airplane's radio, etc.

In general, I thought it was interesting and good for the story that Mr. Incredible and Elasti-girl had been major supers in the past, which made it believable as to how they knew what to do so much, particularly in her directing the kids and their general teamwork abilities. I thought both of the parents were really impressive supers, and good examples of thinking on one's feet.

[zornwil]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Oh, and didn't Emma steal her scenes? She was great, and those sorts of characters are risky to do as they can be annoying. But her delivery was flawless and the character well-written. I also found it interesting we got to see the costume issue addressed head-on.

 

Oh, here's another interesting little parallel, kinda sorta...the way that the (surviving) supers (Emma basically one of them) were just waiting to burst out of the closet, it reminded me a bit of that vibe in Miller's first Dark Knight as Batman revived everyone's interest, as well as in the Watchmen, even though those were of course far darker works.

[Kristopher]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Oh, and didn't Emma steal her scenes? She was great, and those sorts of characters are risky to do as they can be annoying. But her delivery was flawless and the character well-written. I also found it interesting we got to see the costume issue addressed head-on.

 

Oh, here's another interesting little parallel, kinda sorta...the way that the (surviving) supers (Emma basically one of them) were just waiting to burst out of the closet, it reminded me a bit of that vibe in Miller's first Dark Knight as Batman revived everyone's interest, as well as in the Watchmen, even though those were of course far darker works.

 

Edna worked perfectly.

 

Yeah. Mr Incredible still wanted to help people so bad that it was eating him up from inside. Frozone didn't hesitate when he saw the robot walk by. Edna...I think she wanted the challenge, and the sense that her work made a difference. Her comments about "super"models were hilarious. Even the kids: though they'd never been superheroes before, unleashing their powers and getting involved in "the good fight" seemed to come naturally to them once they got going.

 

As much as they didn't do the silly Disney thing of letting the voice actors define the characters, I have to say, in retrospect, that I really liked the classic "Samuel L Jackson moment" with the cup of water.

[keithcurtis]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I figure she was called Mirage to represent that she was a mask for Syndrome until he was ready to reveal himself. I find it hard to believe that someone with Syndrome's... syndrome would have a super as a girlfriend or even an underling.

 

Keith "can thing of few things more firghtening than a son like Dash" Curtis

[Magmarock]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

The cape thing... yeah, my younger brother and I caught that right away.

 

Buddy the 'Sidekick', I knew that he'd be the main villain after he was kicked to the curb. He seemed too bitter and resentful to not be the baddie, plus they really made a point of him being an inventor.

 

I found it a little odd that Mr. Incredible wouldn't kill Mirage when he threatened to do so, yet he had no problem destroying the many nameless soldiers in Syndrome's employ. Maybe it was because she was helpless at that time.

 

The part when Mr. Incredible found the dead hero in the cave creeped me out. Very well done. Especially the password burned into the rock wall. Clever.

 

I mentioned in another thread that I thought Elastigirl's powers were the coolest of the others, and also utilized the best, but my favorite character was Frozone (I LOVE that name, by the way). He was hilarious.

 

As for little Jack Jack, I could see the fire and heavy metal (i.e. elements) but WTF was with the little red demonoid? That didn't make any sense to me.

 

My brother noted the family's similarity to the Fantastic Four. I said perhaps, but I think that FF's powers tend to encompass the main super powers anyway, so it would be hard to not pay homage to that team.

 

I was hoping that Mirage would be a mentalist, but I think instead that is just her spy codename.

 

Best chase scene: Dash being chased in the jungle.

 

Best action scene: Elastigirl caught in the doors, and still she kicks ass!

 

Most heartbreaking scene: Mr. Incredible, captured, alone and crying when he thinks his family has been killed.

 

As for another movie, I hope there will be more. Many more.

 

 

Sidenote: Did anyone else catch the dancing sheep & the jackalope short they played before The Incredibles? It was funny, yet disturbing.

 

 

Mags

[Trebuchet]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I think Mirage was falsely portraying herself as a super in order to pull Mr. Incredible into the trap. She said something along the lines of "those of us with special abilities have to help when we can" when she first appeared to Jack Parr on the video tablet and then winked. So I don't think she actually had any powers, only that Mr. Incredible was supposed to think she did.

[Theron]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

As for little Jack Jack, I could see the fire and heavy metal (i.e. elements) but WTF was with the little red demonoid? That didn't make any sense to me.

 

You've never had a small child, have you?

 

Seriously, each of the Parr family's powers reflects a bit of stereotypical thinking about the nuclear family - Dad has to be strong no matter what; Mom is pulled in a million different directions and has to be flexible, the Teenaged Girl just wants to vanish, Junior is a mess of energy, and the baby? The baby is like dealing with a ten ton weight, a hot potato, and a raging demon.

 

I don't think Mirage had any powers. If so, wouldn't Syndrome have eliminated her as well? Her wink to Bob was just a way of luring him in, making him think he'd be working as a super for the good guys once again. Basically, an appeal to a guy who thinks his golden days are behind him that maybe, secretly, they aren't.

[zornwil]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Edna worked perfectly.

 

Yeah. Mr Incredible still wanted to help people so bad that it was eating him up from inside. Frozone didn't hesitate when he saw the robot walk by. Edna...I think she wanted the challenge, and the sense that her work made a difference. Her comments about "super"models were hilarious. Even the kids: though they'd never been superheroes before, unleashing their powers and getting involved in "the good fight" seemed to come naturally to them once they got going.

 

As much as they didn't do the silly Disney thing of letting the voice actors define the characters, I have to say, in retrospect, that I really liked the classic "Samuel L Jackson moment" with the cup of water.

I liked him arguing with his wife.

[zornwil]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

(snip)

 

I found it a little odd that Mr. Incredible wouldn't kill Mirage when he threatened to do so, yet he had no problem destroying the many nameless soldiers in Syndrome's employ. Maybe it was because she was helpless at that time.

 

I thought he didn't kill her simply because he'd lost everything and it was pointless to do so, he had nothing to live for, and the hero in him, to the degree it was left, figured why kill another person for nothing. That's how I took it. As to the soldiers, weren't all those deaths in mid-combat? Well, when he was infiltrating I recall he dumped one or two off the monorail. I think the soldier thing is along the lines of most action things, where the soldier mooks are doing hazardous jobs and themselves employ lethal force so heroes don't unnecessarily kill them but don't sweat if they do die, that sort of thing, and I think the treatment of Mirage was roughly consistent, with the added factor that he knew her from beforehand, i.e., he had a connection to her, she wasn't a faceless enemy. But I think he wouldn't have killed anyone at that point just to break free, I think he was emotionally crushed.

 

I mentioned in another thread that I thought Elastigirl's powers were the coolest of the others, and also utilized the best, but my favorite character was Frozone (I LOVE that name, by the way). He was hilarious.

 

Yeah, isn't it neat that the coolest ice-character is now from a movie instead of the comics? IMHO anyway.

 

As for little Jack Jack, I could see the fire and heavy metal (i.e. elements) but WTF was with the little red demonoid? That didn't make any sense to me.

 

Me, either, that would probably be my only minor quibble. Maybe he's a shapechanger?

 

Best chase scene: Dash being chased in the jungle.

 

I'm not a Star Wars fan at all, as mentioned elsewhere, but it definitely seemed inspired by the Star Wars scene with the guys on hoverbikes in the 3rd movie, the one with the Ewoks. Anyway, agreed, it was hard not to bounce around like a child during it for the excitement.

 

This was one of those moments in the film I couldn't sit still and had to clap once or twice.

 

Best action scene: Elastigirl caught in the doors, and still she kicks ass!

 

Also awesome, what I thought was neat was how tense it was. But overall I really had to go for the big battle scene as the best "action scene", although maybe that's exempt as it is after all the big battle scene.

 

(snip) Sidenote: Did anyone else catch the dancing sheep & the jackalope short they played before The Incredibles? It was funny, yet disturbing.

 

Mags

 

I enjoyed it basically, my wife didn't. I don't know if either of us found it exactly disturbing but I think I know what you mean.

[keithcurtis]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Mr. Incredible didn't kill Mirage because heroes don't kill helpless hostages. That's murder.

Killing someone in the heat of battle is entirely different. Self Defense is the justification.

These are common distinctions in most heroic fiction, not just Supers. Aragorn kills orcs in battle, he doesn't slay prisoners. Once the Stormtroopers are tied up on Endor, Han Solo doen't start popping them off with his blaster, even though he was shooting them right and left when they were shooting back.

 

I see no contradiction in Mr. Incredible's actions.

 

Now, that being said, I would have prefered a movie without deaths at all, but that's a very minor quibble and did not detract from my respect for the movie.

 

Keith "Heroes don't murder" Curtis

[Kristopher]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Mr. Incredible didn't kill Mirage because heroes don't kill helpless hostages. That's murder.

Killing someone in the heat of battle is entirely different. Self Defense is the justification.

These are common distinctions in most heroic fiction, not just Supers. Aragorn kills orcs in battle, he doesn't slay prisoners. Once the Stormtroopers are tied up on Endor, Han Solo doen't start popping them off with his blaster, even though he was shooting them right and left when they were shooting back.

 

I see no contradiction in Mr. Incredible's actions.

 

Now, that being said, I would have prefered a movie without deaths at all, but that's a very minor quibble and did not detract from my respect for the movie.

 

Keith "Heroes don't murder" Curtis

 

I'm not necessarily posting this to disagree with you, but I do have to wonder what you would have prefered in some of the situations.

 

When Mr Incredible starts fighting in such a way that he might kill the agents (tossing them out of the monorail, throwing large objects at them, etc), he already knows that Syndrome has killed other superheroes. The kids can't exactly be held responsible, they're untrained, scared, and fending off armed agents who want to kill them -- most of the agents dying in that sequence are killed by their own mistakes anyway.

 

After that, well, I guess I just can't get too upset when the parents are willing to risk killing murderous thugs to pretect their children from those thugs. Going out of their way to be Comics Code friendly at that point would have been a foolish risk.

 

I guess I'm just seeing a very different movie if you want to eliminate all the potentially lethal actions. Syndrome's plot loses some of its horror if he hasn't killed off heroes.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I thought the movie's tone was Straight Silver Age, at most Bronze Agey. People died in Marvel Comics in the late 60's and 70's. I think that the writer was trying to reflect that time period, with updated languauge and cultural references, so that the younger audience would still be engaged by the young characters.

 

I also think that the wrriter was clearly modelling the family after the Fantastic Four. He switched the powers around, and changed the situation to avoid being to close, but fanboys all over know who he is talking about. It's just like what a lot of comics writers today are doing: Planetary and Astro City are perfect examples.

 

I think the baby's powers are sort of an in-joke. All the comics fans were saying, "Hey, why doesn't the brash, impulsive younger brother have flame powers?" Then they see the baby burst into flames and say, "AHA !!" I actually heard some say that in a theater here in Seattle when the baby flamed on. Then he cleverly screws with your mind by showing little bits of Colossus and The Hulk to say, "Gotcha."

 

I liked the fact that both the mother and father were allowed to be competent. The mom was not the only one that had a brain. I especially liked the way they showed each other mutual respect.

[Chuckg]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Re: mom & dad...

 

Well, I quote one of the movie reviewers at _National Review_:

 

"Most kids' entertainment is about kids. Pixar movies are about adults. They show children what adults are supposed to do — to be brave and self-sacrificing, to defend children even at risk to themselves, to give even in the face of ingratitude. This is wise because, after all, children aren't going to remain children. Just as we encourage them daily to grow in the practical skills of adulthood, they'll need these kind of skills too if they are going to be faithful, responsible spouses and parents.

 

"Many kids sitting in theater seats don't have a daddy like Nemo's, who would go to the end of the ocean to save their lives. They don't have a daddy like Dash and Violet's, who can be crushed only by the thought that he has lost them, and whose strength rebounds instantly when he learns they need his help. These kids don't have daddy-figures like Woody and Mike and Sullivan, who love and guard the children who enter their care. They don't have a daddy like that, but one day they may be a daddy like that, or have a clear idea of the kind of future daddy they need to marry. If this is all that Pixar has done, it has done a most eminent thing."

 

She liked Elasti-Girl, too.

[wcw43921]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I was wondering what happened to all the supervillains when the heroes were forced into retirement--were they all supposed to be in jail by then, or something? Because usually when the heroes are incapacitated or otherwise out of the picture, that's the time the bad guys really go on a spree--

 

BANK ROBBERS: "This is great! With the Mighty Rocket out of town, there's no one to stop us!"

 

THE MIGHTY ROCKET: "Who said I was out of town?"

 

BANK ROBBERS: "Oh---fudge. . ."

 

Now I could see Syndrome recruiting the villains the same way he "recruited" all those heroes--but I thought there should have been some mention of it in the movie.

 

That being said, it did not diminish my enjoyment of the movie one bit. The Incredibles is quite possibly the best original superhero movie ever--EVER--and I plan to see it once more, at least, and support it in any way I can.

[Brandi]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I thnk Syndrome (Sindrome? - I saw someone else on the board spell it that way) might be alive, although I'd hope they'd save that for a 3rd or 4th sequel and not just have a rematch too soon.

 

He got sucked into a jet engine. I doubt he made it out, although they could always evoke the old standby of "they never DID find a body."

 

As for sequels... the problem is, Disney owns the rights to this film, not Pixar, which means after Pixar leaves the partnership next year it'd be Disney making the films, not Pixar.

 

And Disney's track record for the last several years wRT animated films has been a depressing slide into crap. Lilo and Stitch was the last gasp-- and that crew no longer works for the studio.

[Theron]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

Y'know, I'd happily settle for an animated series along the lines of "Buzz Lightyear of Star Command".

 

If nothing else, it would give Patrick Warburton more work.

[nexus]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I liked the fact both parents were portrayed a caring, compassionate and with brains. It was an excellent portrayal of a traditional family without being cloying or sacchrine.

 

Elasti-girl made stretching powers cool.

 

I was wondering what happened to the Super villains as well. Maybe without the heroes, they faded out as the "game" wasn't fun anymore without "worthy" opponents?

[Magmarock]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

You've never had a small child' date=' have you? [/quote']

 

I have. She's 21 now and a bigger pain in the but than ever.

 

Mags

[Greatwyrm]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

I was wondering what happened to the Super villains as well. Maybe without the heroes' date=' they faded out as the "game" wasn't fun anymore without "worthy" opponents?[/quote']

 

Maybe without the superheroes to bring them back alive, the cops had to resort to just blowing them away.

[phydaux]

Re: The Incredibles -- WITH SPOILERS

 

The family was def. a Fantastic Four homage, and I think one of the two old farts at the end saying "They're back, they're back..." was supposed to be Stan Lee (I don't know who the other guy was supposed to be), but were there ANY DC homages in the film?