Ultimate Thief/Scout

[Short Shot]

I had this nice, long presentation written at one point, but I'll save you all the pain of reading it.

 

If you were to build the ultimate thief/scout, what abilities would you consider critical? What would not be critical, but really nice to have?

 

This is the guy you send in to take photos of the secret plans, get the base layout, smuggle weapons to your captive teammates. A secret base on a remote island? Not a problem, just a vacation in the sun to this guy.

 

As an added bonus, it would be nice if he could drop the average villain minion guard or two before they can set off an alarm if he gets them from ambush.

[Cardinal]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Desolid

Invisibility

Eidetic Memory (to take pictures)

Mind Link with his/her colleagues to pass on info.

[BcAugust]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Hmm, the way one of my characters is built, is almost perfect for scouting/stealing.

 

Teleportation

Clarisentience

Telekinisis

Oh, and the Desolid and Invisibility.

 

Obvisiusly, doesn't need to even get into places to scout them out, but when she does... is perfectly suited to get in and out without incidence. And laughs at most cells or restraints.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Well comic book thieves tend to fall into three main camps

 

Infiltrators

Cat woman is an infiltrator her robberies are planned she uses stealth and guile.

Using such tricks as confidence games misdirection and decoys to get to her target and escape

 

Power based

Shadow cat, Camarouge(a green arrow character) Night crawler often with a single power desolidification invisibility or teleportation used to bypass security and avoid danger.

 

Smash and grab

 

Gambit or Harley Quinn (actually most super villains) usually try infiltration but with the fire power to back up a straight smash and grab or hot exfiltration

 

One thing all comic book thieves have in common beside the obvious skill with lock picks and security systems is acrobatic skill. Comic book thieves seem to spend there half their time somersaulting over guards cart wheeling through lasers and swing/abseiling from tall buildings.

Other skills

 

For stats high Dex and a reasonably high SPD are fairly self-explanatory and pretty much essential.

A high presence, comic book thieves tend to be seductive charming and good with people not to mention fearless. A high ego is a Possibility too as this sort of character tends to be strong willed. Finally you need a high INT, because a good thief is a smart thief.

 

Usually strength con and body would be low after all if your doing your job no one should see you to shoot you. On the other hand the athletic nature of the profession lends it self to boosted recovery and END. After all, all that running around and patiently hanging above your target requires good stamina.

 

Attack wise you are not a baseball bat you’re a scalpel attacks are precise delivered with surprise and used mainly to distract or disable your opposition while you can get what you came for or escape. Obviously the smash and grabber are different but they tend to have concealable weaponry gambits playing cards Harley Quinn’s magic disappearing honking big gun etc. NND energy blasts (think knockout gas) flashes, darkness and entangles are all popular with comic book thieves.

Finally melee weapons thieves in comics love them claws, whips, bo-staffs and throwing blades they love them all.

Finally powers Thief powers tend to be gadgets, often one shot, prone to malfunction (due to there custom nature) extra time is another good disadvantage for spy gadgets say desolid with extra time or invisibility with a continuing charge or activation roll. Skill enhancers are also a common item in a thief’s bag of tricks, stuff like sound dampening clothing and lock picks are excellent choices.

 

Power based thieves/scouts will tend to have one main power and possibly a couple of minor powers (think night crawler who has his port as his main power with clinging and his light absorbing fur as extras or kitty pryde with phasing as her main power and technology jinxing as her secondary).

 

Anyway that everything of the top of my head. I’m going to have to create one now i'll post it when I’m done.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Although they are less useful as scouts, there is a sub-set of thieves that rely on misdirection 9aided at times by various powers) to cause people to look in one direction while they are doing their dirty work somewhere else. Powers that enable one to diguise oneself, cause objects to seemingly move by themselves, or create false images on security devices are handy for these types. A classic example is the anime character Kaitou Saint Tail, who used a wide variety of effects inspired by stage magic.

 

When designing such a character as a PC or NPC, one has to think about why they steal. A character who only takes back things that were wrongfully taken, or who only robs criminals as a sort of vigilante justice, would be a viable PC. So is a PC who acts like he's just out for himself but who in reality ends up fighting the good fight in the process (such as Lupin III).

[Badger]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Enhanced senses and stealth out the yin yang would definitely be helpful. for the scout side a good tracking skill would be a plus. Pickpocketing for the thief side of things. For ambushing skills with weapons like Bows, knives (throwing and non-throwing), and garrote (spelling?) would always help.

[Badger]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

If you dont want to kill anybody the ability to do the Vulcan grip would be good too. (or some alternate type of similar move)

[Mr. R]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Although they are less useful as scouts, there is a sub-set of thieves that rely on misdirection 9aided at times by various powers) to cause people to look in one direction while they are doing their dirty work somewhere else.

 

 

Wasn't there a NPC theif like this in San Angelo, basically a cat burgler with a Guardian Angle (basically stated as Tk with its own speed to do things to get said burgler out of trouble). It would turn off lights, drop wall hanging on persuers, throw objects in your way ect.

 

Jerome

[levi]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Don't forget Enhanced Perception...those thieves are awfully hard to sneak up on and can often detect IR or UV triplasers.

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

It rather depends on how you want to go. First, there’s the out-and-out super-powered scout. As mentioned above, this is likely to be someone who can turn invisible or, even better, teleport or turn desolid.

 

Then there’s the ‘super-skilled’ characters. These are outwardly normal people, whose skills are so good that in HERO system terms they are built as powers. This is the amazing ninja who can vanish into the shadows far more easily and effectively then the Stealth Skill could ever allow (a form of Invisibility), or someone like Mr Miracle, who can walk through security arrangements and pick locks as though they aren’t there (a variation on Desolidification, perhaps, although that wouldn’t allow anyone else to follow him without some Advantages and then the Power gets very clunky).

 

Then there are characters who have Skills appropriate to thieves and scouts. In a superhero campaign, the rolls for these are likely to be high. The characters might have Overall Levels to bump up their chances with any one skill or even to allow them to take out that pesky security guard. In some respects, this is better than super-skills, because, for example, if Mr Miracle opens a door using his Lockpicking 21- (plus his five Overall Levels), it stays open and there are no peculiar rules effects. In a supers game, it is quite possible that the characters will have such Skills as well as ones based upon powers.

 

Your answer to which type of game thief you want nudges you in the way to go (in HERO terms).

 

However, the abilities I consider essential to a good thief/scout for the purposes you have described are ways to avoid being seen or heard, ways to get to the place in question (and away again), ways to get past or around security devices (including locks), ways to record and/or pass on the information found and ways to deal with guards.

 

In the first category, you are looking at Stealth as a Skill and Invisibility as a Power. There are other options, such as using Images to ‘cloak’ his presence.

 

In the second, some kind of Movement Power would be good, ideally Teleport, but it could be anything. For Skills, you are looking at Transport Familiarities and maybe Combat Driving/Combat Pilot. You’ve got to get to that island somehow.

 

The third category involves Skills such as Lockpicking and Security Systems. Related Skills such as Electronics and Mechanics can help. If you have to get past cameras, you might need to Disguise yourself. In terms of Powers, Invisibility, Desolidification and Teleport are very useful. However, there’s mileage in things such as Stretching (to reach switches over the booby-trapped floor), Darkness (to hide from cameras or guards), Images, or Gliding (to walk over the floor without actually touching it hard enough to set off the trigger). Be imaginative with Powers! Enhanced Senses to spot infra-red beams or hear ultrasonic alarms might be useful too.

 

The fourth set of things would cover Eidetic Memory, Mind Link and maybe Telepathy. These can be built as gadgets if need be (cameras, sound recorders, radio headsets) and you could even have High Range Radio Listen and Transmit to allow you to broadcast things in a more conventional fashion.

 

The final set of abilities covers attack powers. You’d generally want things which are fairly quiet, such as silenced guns, gas attacks and quiet Martial Arts moves (Choke is great for this). However, it also covers being able to talk your way out of trouble (Persuasion, maybe Seduction), paying off the guards (Bribery), or fooling them (Acting, Disguise).

 

Realistically, your thief isn't going to be able to do everything. He will have an MO and largely stick to that, be it tricking his way in, or Teleporting into the basement.

[levi]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

I think we all also overlooked Shapeshifting (a la Mystique) as a way to move about undetected.

[pinecone]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Yeah I'd suggest the super ninja, after all ninjas rawk....so Desolid, Invisability, clinging maybe some Teleport, throw in some skills, add in some martial arts (Choke hold/Nerve strike) and you gotta scout from heck. A speedster can often doe this also, or as suggested a shape shifter, or even a mentalist..."I am Not the intruder you are looking for, carry on...nothing to see here..." Ego blast or mental illusions is plenty good to take out non robotic guards.....

[Sociotard]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

I did "Detect being Detected" as a mystic ability. Sure, you may be invisible, but it just takes one unusual sense connected to a silent alarm, and you're in trouble. If you know you've been detected early enough, you have more time to extract yourself.

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

Yeah I'd suggest the super ninja' date=' after all ninjas rawk...[/quote']

 

Correction: Ninjas are cool, and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

 

If you don't believe that ninjas have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.

[Bengal]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

What do you call those twirly sticks Ninjas are always using? I lke those twirly sticks.

 

When ninjas attack, how come they always attack one-by-one? They always seem to get beaten that way.

[Crimson Arrow]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

I think we all also overlooked Shapeshifting (a la Mystique) as a way to move about undetected.

 

Actually, I forgot to mention Power alternatives to the skills in the fifth part of my earlier post.

 

Shapeshifting is the obvious Power to allow for a super disguise (it could even be built as a Super Disguise skill, as per 'Mission: Impossible' or 'Darkman').

 

For PRE-based Skills, Mind Control could work well, as has since been mentioned.

 

One of the nice things about HERO is that there are some powers which can create a similar effect, but all slightly different. For example, a stealthy character could have Stealth, Invisiblity, Images, Mental Illusions, Change Environment or Darkness as ways to avoid (or reduce the chances of) being seen.

[Vorsch]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

One of the nice things about HERO is that there are some powers which can create a similar effect, but all slightly different. For example, a stealthy character could have Stealth, Invisiblity, Images, Mental Illusions, Change Environment or Darkness as ways to avoid (or reduce the chances of) being seen.

 

these powers tend to exist in most supers games. Usually with more freedom to use them creatively.

 

Marvel DC

[pinecone]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

What do you call those twirly sticks Ninjas are always using? I lke those twirly sticks.

 

When ninjas attack, how come they always attack one-by-one? They always seem to get beaten that way.

Batons, ninjas rawk, those lame ninja wanna bes are cheerleaders who dress like ninjas....

[Short Shot]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

The original inspiration for this guy is a race from some John Ringo books. They are a race of froglike beings, camelion style. They are pacifistic, cowardly and paranoid, but love stories and are willing to risk danger to be there in person to actually GET a story.

 

My character was going to be just incredibly curious and unable to resist a challenge. He likes to go visit museums at night ("Just avoiding the crowds, you see.."), the mansion on the hill to see how the rich live, Area 51 to check out the alien bodies. He never steals, he just likes to get there.

 

He is still fairly unformed besides a concept character. Right the vague thought is that he is going to be sneaking around some magic user's place and get caught, but the magic user actually doesn't mind too much because he's kind of lonely and a nice guy. However, later he will be trying to do that magic user a favor and get caught in a different magic trap and barely get out, with some very strange stuff happening along the way. (Free a demon? play host to a ghost? Become a focus of sometimes helpful, sometimes mischivious elementals?)

 

To pay the bills, he will likely start out a security consultant with a fair bit of computer skills as well. Not much for fighting himself, but if you need to get into a secure area, hack a computer system to get the info and get out again, nobody better.

[Jeghis]

Re: Ultimate Thief/Scout

 

if it's any help, i'm running a scout/thief in a 270 XP game based in Traveller's universe. we have access to equipment, so that changes things a bit. we also did a conversion from FRED to 5ER, so that plus XP has pushed him to 328 XP.

 

in our world, i'm part of a planetary rebellion, so i specialize in getting information and people out. the planet is in a psi-heavy area (zhodani, if you know traveller), so it was STRONGLY reccomended that i make him psi resistant. right now, i am sundered from the main group, but that looks like it will change soon, if we don't shoot each other.

 

here's a rundown of what i did. his best stats are DEX (20) and INT (23). he has the skills to get past security: security systems, lockpicking, electronics, stealth and concealment.

 

his biggest disad is code against killing, so he doesn't have the psychological baggage that might get him into a fix. if he finds a trap or lock he can't get past, he doesn't. if it's critical, he takes his time. as part of a larger group, at this point, he's been able to do recon before entry.

 

ok, back to the sheet. his major talents are combat sense, eidetic memory, absolute time sense and speed reading x100. he can go in read, remember and leave. it's also great with his powers.

 

he has some protection, armor and mental DEF, that stand alone, but most everything else is in his multipower. it's limiting, but it does give him a chance to change his MO, from time to time. also outside are his HRRP, UV, and IR.

 

his multi has invis to mental, sight and radio. this helps a lot to bypass normals, but leaves a lot that he has to do with skills. i took it to 0END, peristent, so i'm safe, but very hard to find if i take a hit. unless his blood starts to pool.

 

i didn't take a clairsense, but i do have two floating teleport points and teleport, x2 mass. i've found that i can use them to go step by step through a building and escape back to my last safe spot, if need be. plus i can take a passenger, if that's needed. (with one drawback. he also is susceptible to teleport 3d6 stun, ouch. but we could only choose from a reduced list of disads.)

 

the other powers in the multi are: force wall, force field, images (sight, radio), flash (sight, radio), telekinesis and flight. none of them are great, but they serve different purposes. for example, in the most recent runs, i'd go into a building to scout and then come back. using images i could walk people through the building. who cares if they believed it was real, they could see it and ask questions.

 

the last thing in the multi is an energy blast. it has a max of +1/2 advantages from variiable advantage. again, the GM said the group i may be joining (if they don't read this post) needed more esoteric firepower. the easiest way to do that was just use a variable advantage. the only real limit is the +1/2 variable special effects advantage i can use. there, i made a list of advantages i'd used in my history and we decided which were common and which weren't. i took the whole EB as stun only, since he doesn't kill, but he hasn't used it yet. the only runs i've done with him have been recon and infiltration.

 

now, it's a relatively new character, but as i worked through it i tried to imagine what would help him in his tasks. being overconfident is cool, but horrible for a thief who can be whacked by a brick. to be honest, (sigh) my inspiration wasn't a comic book thief, it was Bilbo Baggins. he was quiet, unassuming and quite willing to believe that he could get caught. i would caution you to choose your disads very carefully. being invisible is no proof against having a big mouth or being habitually unwashed.

 

hope it helped. and i hope my GM doesn't read this. he's evil. unless he is reading this, then he's very nice.

 

later