Liefeld's Titans

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I think it's because when you first glance at it or see it out of the corner of your eye your brain flashes "...Art Adams?" It is only after you look at it square on and see the twisted masses of flesh that he has actually drawn that your brain says "Nope. Just some ******* who thinks he's Art Adams."

All I can think of is that he has some interesting photographs of one of the editor and some farm animals myself.

[aylwin13]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

All I can think of is that he has some interesting photographs of one of the editor and some farm animals myself.

It's the kneepads, man, the kneepads.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I think this is interesting, and it not only inlcudes Liefeld's history, accusations, etc., but also an artistic criticism: http://www.answers.com/topic/rob-liefeld

 

My apology to Hermit; It *does* include that horrible Cap picture.

The best part was the overhead of the Capt. America image ... wow, that had me in stitches.

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I'm really trying to figure out how someone who is as crappy an artist as Liefeld is could get in the door of Marvel or DC in the first place. I'm sure there were dozens of artists far more talented submitting their work.

 

DC???

I can totally see the Art Adams tie-in. Longshot had just gone ballistic at Marvel and DC needed a hit. Barbara and Karl Kessel talked DC bigwigs into doing a Hawk and Dove series. If my memory is right Liefield di the pencils and Karl inked them and it looked alot like Art Adams work. I do remember Hawk having thighs as big as Volkswagons though. And Doves head was really oddly shaped. But I bought it because of Hawk and Dove.

 

Marvel???

Two words for you. Jim Shooter.

 

Ol JS left Marvel in such a crappy mess that his replacement, Tom DeFalco would have sold dead babies if it would have meant Marvel sales.

 

 

I may seem bitter about all of this but I believe I have a right to be. I've been reading comics for nearly 30 years now, having to defend myself against misanthropic school bullies, vapid teeny boopers girls, pot smoking thugs and ignorant people in general, for my fandom.

 

I feel that I read classic comics, comics with great stories and art. Visual Novels so to speak.

 

I remember the first comic I ever bought with my own money. Avengers #: The Collector had just captured abunch of Avengers and they managed to free themselves. Just before they could question the Collector as to why a bolt of energy blew him away, leading the Avengers to battle Korvac.

(Hehehe funny: Jim Shooter wrote the most dynamic comics of my childhood.)

 

The Avengers had a member called the Beast. I thought he was the coolest at 6 years old. When I found out he was an X-Man and they had their own comic, I was once again hooked.

 

I want my childhood back.

[Roth]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I collected comics from about 80 to about hmmm 1999-2000 or so... then I got married and had kids and could either afford the family or the comics... so it goes. I had the entire run of the New Mutants, and when this new (to me) artist started on what would be their last few issues I thought "Hmmm not bad" and then Thunderbird grew, all the medium sized men started to look the same in body type, all the women as well I thought "Who the hell is editing this book?"

 

I bought the first few Issues of X-Force because I like the characters and I hoped it would be good. Then of course it sucked.

 

Flash forward to a few years later. I had stopped buying the X titles because of the horrid things that they were doing to the characters and the team and the world in general (Operation Zero Tolerance any one.... or worse... the horror that is Onslaught) And then they killed the Avengers and the FF and Cap. And then rebooted them in the Heroes Reborn Uni. I collected the entire HR run of the FF and Cap, and as I remember Leifeld drew most of the Cap run (if not all) I liked it... I liked the writing and the art... and I thought "Wow... give Liefeld a good editor and he is a good artist..." Or maybe he was just sick or something....

[Captain Pants]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I realize I'm a dissenting voice here, but what is so wrong with his art? I've read enough to understand everyone's main gripes, such as everyone gaining 50 lbs of muscle, a scowl, and a wider mouth. But every artist has his own way of doing things.

 

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world, but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread. I've seen amateur comic artwork before, and by en large, it sucks. Even if many of you don't like elements of his style, Rob Liefield's art is professional and high quality. I wish I could draw HALF as well as he can.

 

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

 

I find his artwork clean, the body proportions good, and the facial art believable. Quite honestly, I thought the reduction in Cyborg's head made him look more like the Tank/Brick he's supposed to be, and he looked a lot better.

 

Bottom line, I would prefer this artwork over the style they use in the Teen Titans cartoon any day.

 

-- Cappy

[Hermit]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

 

-- Cappy

 

Actually, I've disliked his artistic creations for a long time, long before it was 'popular' to do so.

[death tribble]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Here I have to disagree with you. In part because it applied to another artist. When Jae Lee did the WildCATS trilogy he superannuated the torso of the Grifter character so that it looked completely ridiculous. And had him bare chested under the trademark coat for no readily apparnat reason. He also made Zealot look weak instead of the strong character she had been portrayed as.

Now as I feel about Jae, other people feel about Rob.

If you take a character and portray them in a way that makes no sense then why shouldn't you be slated ?

 

Mind you in Liefeld's case there is no forgiveness for creating Cable. None at all. Especially when you keep trying to export the character to other companies or bring it back again.

That and making the female characters dress in g strings and little else when fighting an enemy.

[death tribble]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Actually' date=' I've disliked his artistic creations for a long time, long before it was 'popular' to do so.[/quote']

You have more reason than anyone here to hate him. He violated Captain America. And he has yet to be indicted for that offence.

[Captain Pants]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I recognize that some, like Hermit, may just dislike his art. Looking further into his background, I can see he's made some serious mistakes from the business side of things that has alienated readers, such as the infamous Captain America picture or his plagiarism. But looking strictly at the Teen Titans artwork given above, I didn't see a problem other than a few artistic liberties in complete line with his known style... which is popular to hate now, I realize.

 

To each his own.

 

- Cappy

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

All right, Captain Pants, let me give you a counter-example: Byrne.

 

Byrne gets flamed a lot on the boards for the things he's done to a lot of characters he's gotten his hands on. However there are comparitively few flames about his artwork because most people consider him a professional artist. Perhaps nothing brilliant to write home about, but his artwork doesn't get in the way of the comic.

 

Liefeld is another story. He's a bad artist. And yes, I'm a worse artist, I admit it. On the other hand I'm not trying to pass myself off as a professional artist. Nor are most of the people on these boards, with the exception of the artists who've done work for HERO games (and there's a bit of difference between illustration for RPG books and doing full comic book illustrations, which I think most of the artists here would conceed). However one does not need to be a professional writer to critique writing, nor does one need to be a professional artist to critique art.

 

Liefeld has a very poor sense of anatomy. His bodies are all distorted. The proportions are all wrong and they're typically contorted. You can call it stylistic, except for the fact that I've never seen him do a body that wasn't physically distorted, even in single panel 'still' shots. I have yet to see a piece of art from him that wouldn't get a 'D' in a regular art class, which I think he needs to enroll in.

 

There are artists who've done stylistic artwork, like Bill Sienkiewicz, but he's also shown himself capable of doing straight illustration. And his stylizations show that he has some sense of how to do it. Liefeld just looks like he does bad traces of existing artwork (and there are plenty of examples of cases where he has ripped off scenes from other artists). Or the effect that he's going for is completely off for what the scene is all supposed to be about.

 

Then there's his writing, the less is said of which, the better, but needless to say most of my criticisms of Byrne pale in contrast to Liefeld.

[hooligan x]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world' date=' but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread. I've seen amateur comic artwork before, and by en large, it sucks. Even if many of you don't like elements of his style, Rob Liefield's art is professional and high quality. I wish I could draw HALF as well as he can.[/quote']

My upstairs neighbor may be a better surgeon than I am, but I don't want him taking out my appendix. Liefeld's art is professional only because he is paid to produce it. His "style" is ameturish. It is in no way high quality.

 

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

I hated his work when I fist saw it, at the height of his popularity. I have evaluated his art and found no merit.

 

I find his artwork clean, the body proportions good, and the facial art believable. Quite honestly, I thought the reduction in Cyborg's head made him look more like the Tank/Brick he's supposed to be, and he looked a lot better.

Clean, as in no jelly stains or coffee rings, I agree. The body proportions are not remotely representitive of human anatomy. Even worse than the proportions is the poses he draws. Most would be fatal to a human being.

 

Bottom line, I would prefer this artwork over the style they use in the Teen Titans cartoon any day.

I wouldn't like the regular Titans book to go Go! but it doesn't mean they need to keep this hack employed. I would prefer to see the art quality of the previous 26 issues continue and to leave the '90s behind us

[ParagonAlpha]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

My dislike goes beyond a dislike of his art. I knew him before populartity.

 

As for him being a better artist than me. I realized my artistic limitations and instead of continuing the "plagarism"/theft of others panels and line copying of artwork, I devoted myself to other persuits.

 

The Bad Man simply continues to lift artwork from others. And poorly.

[Captain Pants]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Again, I fail to see the unrealistic body proportion in the TT scans provided earlier. Certainly Liefield has published over the top artwork with unrealistic proportions in the past, but in this case I think he's on the mark, and a good sight better than some other professional artists I've seen.

 

Perhaps the popularity to hate him isn't really the issue... it may just be that emotion is interfering with fair judgment. What I keep hearing is, "I've hated him before, so I hate him now."

 

All I'm saying is that his recent TT artwork doesn't seem that bad, and that maybe, just maybe, this one time, we could cut him a break.

 

- Cappy

[hooligan x]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Since this isn't the NGD, we can agree to disagree. If you like the art, feel free to purchase the comic. I still haven't decided if I will purchase it. I know it's gonna suck, but I got so much freaking rep from the last read-along...

[Enforcer84]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I realize I'm a dissenting voice here, but what is so wrong with his art? I've read enough to understand everyone's main gripes, such as everyone gaining 50 lbs of muscle, a scowl, and a wider mouth. But every artist has his own way of doing things.

 

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world, but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread. I've seen amateur comic artwork before, and by en large, it sucks. Even if many of you don't like elements of his style, Rob Liefield's art is professional and high quality. I wish I could draw HALF as well as he can.

 

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield, and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.

 

I find his artwork clean, the body proportions good, and the facial art believable. Quite honestly, I thought the reduction in Cyborg's head made him look more like the Tank/Brick he's supposed to be, and he looked a lot better.

 

Bottom line, I would prefer this artwork over the style they use in the Teen Titans cartoon any day.

 

-- Cappy

If he could keep costumes consistant page to page and panel to panel, I'd be a lot happier. And it would be nice if women didn't have the perma arch to their backs.

[Nucleon]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I just picked up my overflowing file at Clockwork Comics and was slapped in the gob by the suckbomb called Tean Titans. Is anyone else upset by this mini-arc of blech?

 

Booooaaaaaaoooooofff, that's not so baaaadd.

 

Nucleon remembers much more horific stuff, especially in the "Heroes Reborn" debacle. He would even venture that Liefield has somehow learned to draw since then.

 

This guy is almost single-handedly responsible for the Iron Age, for the Immortals' sake! Give him a chance... and a crappy comic to draw. Why not "New Avengers" for that matter? He would be complementary with Bendis "nothing is ever happening" style, for what Nucleon thinks.

 

He guess one god's meat is another one's poison...

 

[Blue]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Rob Liefield may not be the best artist in the world' date=' but he's a lot better than anyone who's been trashing him on this thread.[/quote']

Certailny better than I am. But then I'm not trashing beloved and popular works; I'm merely defiling my own characters.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Certailny better than I am. But then I'm not trashing beloved and popular works; I'm merely defiling my own characters.

And I'd have to disagree the the Captain of Pants.

I'd rather look at any of the art here

[Nucleon]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Remember, you asked...

 

Sorry, all. She asked.

 

Brrhhmm. That's what Nucleon was writing about.

 

Well, Still trying to do the Devil's advocate, maybe "cap" was, at the time, stuck in the sixth dimension (which Nucleon occasionnaly visits), where people appeared both sideways and front-facing... anyone?

 

 

 

(Ho well... Why does Nucleon even tries anyway...)

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

It seems to me like it's just popular to hate Rob Liefield' date=' and everyone is just caving to the tyranny of the masses rather than evaluating his art on its own merit.[/quote']

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've hated Liefield's art on its own merits for many years. I have seen worse, of course, but rarely have those artists become popular enough for their names to be known.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I never noticed the mouths before. Check out this one. Frame 1' date=' both characters heads turned same direction exactly, mouths in same position; Frame 3, everybody eyes front, same epxression; Frame 4, everbody mouths open.[/quote']

 

Here's another good example of that "technique":

 

http://www.robliefeld.net/titans17.htm

[HeroGM]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Personally I like Byrne. To me he has a nice golden/silver age feel still, when comics were ment to be taken for fun.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

Personally I like Byrne.

 

I do, too. I think he has a good grasp of motion and anatomy, and he manages to draw figures which are sexy yet realistic.

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Liefeld's Titans

 

I do' date=' too. I think he has a good grasp of motion and anatomy, and he manages to draw figures which are sexy yet realistic.[/quote']

As an artist, I think he's good. He's not jaw dropping great, but he's good. As a writer I have strong reservations about him.

 

Even there, Liefeld makes Byrne look good by sheer horrific contrast.