Healing/Regeneration power build :help:

[Susano]

Okay, here's the premise. A supernatural creature has the nasty ability of coming back from the dead, hale, whole, and hearty, provided it is hit a second time after being "killed." Actually, it may be that if you fail to kill the creature in a single blow, your next one will heal it up completely. Either way, there's no easy way to kill it in hand-to-hand combat.

 

Here is my initial build, but I'm not happy. I was thinking of Healing BODY with a Trigger, but how does one reset the Trigger? (I was also thinking of using Steve's self-resetting triggers from a back issue of Digital Hero).

 

Any suggestions?

 

85 Return To Life: Healing 16d6 (Regeneration, 16 BODY per Turn), Resurrection, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistant (+1/2); Extra Time (1 Turn; -1 1/4), Self Only (-1/2), Resurrection Only (-1/2), Healing Only Works If The Ghul Is Hit A Second Time While Dead (-1)

[Doug Limmer]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

I'm tempted to suggest a triggered Summon, with the summoned creature being identical to a fully-healed version of the original, and let special effects handle the rest, but that might be considered 'cheating' by some people ...

[ghost-angel]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

Heh, I like the Triggered Summon suggestion. Elegent.

[Susano]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

So do I. And it solves a lot of issues -- such as regaining STUN, END, and the like. The creature pops up fully healed and ready to go -- also, since it also has a Triggered Summon, there's no problems with hearing rate delays.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

*waves n00b flag*

 

Wow, I'm impressed I followed that at all. I see the elegance implied in simply 'summoning' a new you and being ready to go to town. I grasp there's no END cost (and even if there were, how would that work?)

 

Would someone break down the final cost of that? I'm asking because since I plan on running Fantasy HERO, Liches have a [sarcasm] lovely [/sarcasm] habit of being able to come back from the dead so long as their phylactery is intact. I grasp some of what's going on, but not all of it. I know the Phylactery is an OIF (is there a non-obvious independent focus?) but getting to it is difficult. Would 'summoning' a new Lich be an equitable solution there as well?

[Susano]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

*waves n00b flag*

 

Wow, I'm impressed I followed that at all. I see the elegance implied in simply 'summoning' a new you and being ready to go to town. I grasp there's no END cost (and even if there were, how would that work?)

 

If there's an END Cost then I buy Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) and that's that. The Trigger handles the rest (even if the creature is dead). I might also need "Persistent," but I think Trigger covers that too.

 

Would someone break down the final cost of that? I'm asking because since I plan on running Fantasy HERO, Liches have a [sarcasm] lovely [/sarcasm] habit of being able to come back from the dead so long as their phylactery is intact. I grasp some of what's going on, but not all of it. I know the Phylactery is an OIF (is there a non-obvious independent focus?) but getting to it is difficult. Would 'summoning' a new Lich be an equitable solution there as well?

 

Depends. How long does it take a lich to "heal" back up to full power? If it can take days (or more) go with some form of Regeneration. Example:

 

Healing xd6 (Regeneration, x BODY per [desired unit of time), Resurrection, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistant (+1/2); Extra Time ([desired unit of time; -x), Self Only (-1/2), Resurrection Only (-1/2)

 

Than add in the OIF limitation to represent the phylactery.

 

Hmm... the AB will also have a power like this, for a creature that keeps it's soul in a stone. As long as the stone is undamaged, the creature can't be killed.

[Steve]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

Actually, I believe you could also use Summon for a Resurrection-type effect, with the judicious use of Trigger, Reduced END, and Extra Time. Hero is good about providing a variety of methods in creating an effect.

 

If you tie either the Healing version or the Summon version to a Focus, then I would assume the Resurrection would take place wherever the Focus lies. Evil liches could have a grand old time this way, especially if they also play such cutesy tricks like surrounding their phylactery Focus with a 0 END, Persistent Area Effect Images against Detect type spells or N-Ray (no phylactery to be seen here, move along).

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

My concept for the phylactery was very Purloined Letter. I don't know if it would be so bizarre as "a desk" or "a chair" but something which is generally absurdly obvious. A fireplace that was built OVER the phylactery itself, or the ashes themselves being the ashes of our former (yet still operational) villain. That's all much later in the campaign, right now they're clearing out the dungeon full o'ghouls.

 

"Coffee? It's from a new company, 'Chock Full o'Ghouls!' It'll scare the life outta ya!"

 

I also need to put an undead template together; various resistances and immunities, with some disads. I was considering: No natural healing, always detectable (N-Ray variant/Detect Variant - Undead, Evil) and other bits. I need my books (!!) first before I can cough up an workable build. I'm on the rules boards now to both a) suggest things that make sense regardless of system and learn the system by (gasp!) asking questions.

[Steve]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

There is a vampire template written up in Fantasy Hero that would be useful as an example for other templates. I can't recall if I saw a lich one though. That might be in Monsters, Minions, and Marauders, I think.

 

An aura of EVIL is definitely a type of Distinctive Features.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

Of course with the Summon there's the trick of removing the original body... May I suggest (assuming this isn't handwaved out of the way):

 

EDM - to place Summons are "stored" ('cus they come from somewhere...); Linked to the Summon.

 

or.. hm, nevermind the above - Since each creature is potentially a Summoned Creature then Summoning a new one automatically cuases the first to be "unsummoned"

[Susano]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

My concept for the phylactery was very Purloined Letter. I don't know if it would be so bizarre as "a desk" or "a chair" but something which is generally absurdly obvious. A fireplace that was built OVER the phylactery itself, or the ashes themselves being the ashes of our former (yet still operational) villain. That's all much later in the campaign, right now they're clearing out the dungeon full o'ghouls.

 

Hmm... traditionally, such things are jars, bottles, or other containers, which tend to hold a physical object (the heart is common). In many cases, since the soul is not in the body, the character cannot be killed, unless the container is opened or broken. If the lich uses this ability to return from the dead, then Regenerative, Resurrection, Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection Only Healing is the way to go. This works really well if the lich takes a long time to heal and can be found in a partially healed stated and fought/destroyed. Summon will work, but presumes the lich will appear completely whole and ready to go, which may no be the effect you want.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

Summon does not work. Sure you can MAKE it work, if you want to ignore some bits, and this was how we did resurrection before we had resurrection, but technically the summoned creature, even if it is DEFINED as the original is still a GM beasty and NOT the original, and, even if the player was allowed to run it, it can not stay around indefinitely - only so long as it has defined 'tasks' to complete.

 

Resurrection DOES get expensive though it is the 'right' way to do it, probably....if it is a GM villain, handwave it for goodness sakes, if it is a player....hmmm....

 

Here's a cheat: + 30 BODY (only to avoid death if hit again after 'dying' -1/2: no figured) and +50 STUN (only active if hit again after 'dying' -1/2) costs 66 points.

 

Basically, say your ghul has 30 stun and 10 BODY norally and gets 'killed' i.e. takes 20 BODY damage, it appears to all intents and purposes to be dead, but in fact has 50 BODY, so is only down to 30: gets hit again and the extra BODY and STUN clicks in and it is up and running at full health. Probably not wxactly what you are after but about the right effect?

[Zed-F]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

I think this is intended for an NPC construct to begin with, and as such any problems regarding who actually controls the character can be conveniently ignored.

[Mister E]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

I'm getting the sense that Summoning would probably be okay. The fact that its cost is dependent on the Experience Points of the original, seems to imply that it is more useful the more powerful you are; which is a little silly.

 

At this point, you might as well built it as a multiple Physical/Mental/Spiritual Transform, used to create a whole new you out of thin Aether.

 

Ultimately, I'm going to have to go with Sean Waters on this one, and suggest that you continue to tweak with Resurrection, until you are happy with the results. Otherwise, you might have problems with the potentiality of a secondary agent using its own resurrection powers to bring the original back to life, while the Summoned duplicate is also running around.

 

It's all a matter of cosmology vs. game mechanics.

 

 

~ Mister E

[Sean Waters]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

I'd be inclined to say that if we were not bothering with the rules too much as it is a GM character, then we don't really need an accurate build...what is going to matter is what, if anything, the PCs can do to circumvent the power: by the sound of it either a one off really big attack that puts it down and out in one hit OR a desperately impressive entangle.

 

Of course if you don't think of this thing as a creature but as, say, a curse, ther is not even any technical reason it can not be done as a summon...

[braincraft]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

The phylactery is the real character, and it Summons a new Lich every time the old one is destroyed.

[QuietusEmissary]

Re: Healing/Regeneration power build

 

*waves n00b flag back*

 

I've been trying to work out a similar power for the lich I'm designing. So far, for the "doesn't stay dead" effect, I have:

 

Cannot Be Slain: Regeneration (1 BODY per Week), Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection (stopped by destroying Phylactery) (29 Active Points); Resurrection Only (-2), Inherent.

 

The problem is that I habe no idea how to represent the lich's body dissipating and re-forming at the Phylactery's location without buying an expensive MegaScaled Teleport. Also, any ideas for a good limitation for powers like Life Support that would fail if the Phylactery is destroyed? Would that be Limited Power or something else?

 

With regards to the "ghul": if you're using Sixth Edition (I'm not sure if you are) I think you could simulate the "must be killed with a single blow" ability with something like this:

 

Regeneration (5 BODY per Turn, Resurrection) (100 Active Points); Limited Power (Only activates when character suffers lethal damage while at zero or less BODY; Very Common, -1 1/2), Time Limit: (1 Minute, -2). Total cost: 22 Points.

 

I *think* (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that that would cause the Ghul to regenerate 5 BODY per turn for 1 Minute (25 BODY in all) if killed while at less than 1 BODY (so if another character used a coup de grace or if the Ghul bled to death). That way you don't have to mess with Triggers and Reduced Endurance and Persistent would be thrown in for free, although you couldn't apply Self Only or Extra Time. You *might* be able to add Resurrection Only, but I think that wouldn't work in this case because the Regeneration keeps going for awhile after the Ghul comes back to life. Also, at the GM's discretion (so yours if this is an NPC), you might move Limited Power up to a -2 Limitation (Ubiquitous) since pretty much all attacks are against targets with positive BODY. That's how I'd do it, anyway, assuming all of that works. Which, given my newbishness, it might not.

[Gauntlet]

Why not just purchase healing (not regeneration) with the Resurrection Adder and a Trigger (if the creature is dropped below 0 BODY. You can also have the healing heal more than just BODY, have it heal STUN and END as well. That way when the Resurrection occurs the monster is automatically put back to max.

[Christopher R Taylor]

It works, but I'd put a time delay on the trigger: it always goes off, but takes a while, then a side effect to make it not work if nobody hits it.  That way there's no ambiguity about a dead creature using a power to res.

[Chris Goodwin]

If the creature regenerates anyway...

 

Consider the res power with Trigger to be set up someplace safe.  One might reasonably expect to need part of the body there in order to resurrect, so the creature cuts off their pinky finger tip and leaves it.  Once they die, the Trigger is active, and having part of the body there begins working on resurrecting them. 

 

I think that would work...

 

Edit to add:  A Trigger is defined as not having any senses the character doesn't have.  5 points for a Mind Link with the resurrection chamber/autodoc/cave/what have you.

Edited January 30 by Chris Goodwin

[Gauntlet]

21 minutes ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

It works, but I'd put a time delay on the trigger: it always goes off, but takes a while, then a side effect to make it not work if nobody hits it.  That way there's no ambiguity about a dead creature using a power to res.

 

Then it probably would be better (and less expensive) to go with Regeneration with the Resurrection adder. You could then add the limitation stating that it does not work if the target is left alone after dying. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Regeneration would work, but it would take a zillion points to regen someone to full life right away, and I think that's what I understand that is what he is trying to simulate.

[Gauntlet]

Then Healing with Resurrection and a trigger would be the way to go.

[Doc Democracy]

Hear me out on this one.  What if your Ghul has duplication.  The body and the soul.  Build the body how you want folk to fight it, build the soul to be invisible and invulnerable but capable of nothing, just lots of BODY.

 

The duplication is no conscious control, when a downed Ghul body is hit that second time it triggers the recombination. That triggers a healing. When fully healed, the duplication kicks in again to split body and soul.

 

Need to read a bit about death of a duplicate, if necessary buy the additional BODY indicated by Sean, the Ghul is dead for all intents and purposes, except to be able to recombine.

 

Doc

[Gauntlet]

49 minutes ago, Doc Democracy said:

Hear me out on this one.  What if your Ghul has duplication.  The body and the soul.  Build the body how you want folk to fight it, build the soul to be invisible and invulnerable but capable of nothing, just lots of BODY.

 

The duplication is no conscious control, when a downed Ghul body is hit that second time it triggers the recombination. That triggers a healing. When fully healed, the duplication kicks in again to split body and soul.

 

Need to read a bit about death of a duplicate, if necessary buy the additional BODY indicated by Sean, the Ghul is dead for all intents and purposes, except to be able to recombine.

 

Doc

 

Problem is that when the duplicate dies, it is gone and the points to purchase it are lost. That means the creature can only regenerate from death once.