Worst comic book superfight ever

[mikesama]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Having done Aikido and wrestling I can tell you that it's hard to maintain a hold against someone who is good and is really trying to make you let go unless you get a pin or a very good joint lock in. Could Cyclops beat Batman in HTH, probably not but it wouldn't be to far fetched for him to be able to pull out an upset. Is he good enough to get in a good throw near the begining of the fight, yes.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Historically, Batman has been portrayed as a superior hand to hand combatant for a majority of his published existance. Their's plenty of poor showings and outliers in those sixty seven years, but he's definitly amongst the top ten "peak human" martial artists in the DC universe.

 

That said, something that a lot of people (including the writers) forget about Cyclops is that he is an expert martial artist (primarily Judo) with a tactical mind second only to Captain America. He's commanded one of the worlds premier super teams since he was sixteen. He has taken on rooms full of mooks while blindfolded, soloed whole X-men teams and out maneuvered immortals. He's a lot more then just his mutant power.

 

Of course, he's also been beaten down single handedly by a depower Storm, so Scott has had bad days just like Batman.

 

Should Slim be able to take the Dark Knight in fight? Probably not without his optic blasts. Should he be able to give a decent showing, hold his own for a little a bit, do a few blocks and counters? IMO, deffinitly.

[Stormraven]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

And just imagine the surprise on Bats' face when he sends a dozen or more batarangs at Cyke, and all of them get knocked out of the air within ten feet by one optic blast... That is definitely the kind of thing Cyclops has done, and has been shown to be very good at...

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

I'm no expert but I certainly understand Cyclops should have an excellent shot at Batman with the eyes. I just was questioning whether Cyclops could really get a throw on Batman; from my limited understanding' date=' I would think Cyclops noticeably inferior to Batman in any hand-to-hand fighting contests.[/quote']

 

Well, IMNSHO, Cyclops isn't as good a martial artist as Batman, however he's a much better tactical thinker. Batman's often too wrapped up in himself and his 'this is my city, only my chosen band (the 'bat-family') are allowed to operate here, I'm a loner so p*ss off' crusade. Obviously, were he more tactical, he'd HAVE MORE HELP.

 

So, Cyke would be able to outmaneuver Batman with his combination of tactical excellence, absolutely freakish knowledge of spatial geometry ('arm goes here, momentum vector is this way, so I do *this!*'), and general cool factor.

[zornwil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Thanks to all for their points. Generally makes sense to me. I didn't read X-Men, other than very rare instances, since around 1977 or therabouts, so more info on Cyclops is good. I didn't know his tactical depth.

 

But Cyclops just isn't as cool as Batman, so he would lose...

 

(Although, btw, I would readily grant that Batman has been pretty uncool and annoying in the hands of many writers, just as with any comic book character of sufficient commercial impact, unfortunately)

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

...But Cyclops just isn't as cool as Batman' date=' so he would lose... ...[/quote']

*sniff sniff*

 

I smell a vs. thread!!

[Kenn]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

*sniff sniff*

 

I smell a vs. thread!!

 

No. That was me. I had beans for lunch.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Of course' date=' he's also been beaten down single handedly by a depower Storm, so Scott has had bad days just like Batman.[/quote']

 

Madelyne was interfering mentally/mystically with the fight, so it doesn't count.

[csyphrett]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

batman was actually soloing the whole team until right before the Justice League showed up.

CES

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

batman was actually soloing the whole team until right before the Justice League showed up.

CES

This is just another example of the two-sheet rule. Always more powerful in their solo books, Bats was forced to use the weaker write-up as soon as the rest of the team showed...he didn't stand a chance.

[csyphrett]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Its kind of what makes the fight rank up there as what the heck. You have a daredevil beating the holy crap out your whole team, but one of your guys can knock out the hulk (martian manhunter) with his bare hands.

CES

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

This is just another example of the two-sheet rule. Always more powerful in their solo books' date=' Bats was forced to use the weaker write-up as soon as the rest of the team showed...he didn't stand a chance.[/quote']

 

Isn't that usually the other way around? Batman's usually pushed to the limit by skilled thugs or professional assassins or gimmick villains like the Joker in his own book, and can toe-to-toe with guys like Darkseid in JL.

[KA.]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Isn't that usually the other way around? Batman's usually pushed to the limit by skilled thugs or professional assassins or gimmick villains like the Joker in his own book' date=' and can toe-to-toe with guys like Darkseid in JL.[/quote']

 

I think it should be called Team Powerlevel Averaging.

If you are really powerful in your own book (Superman) then you will be brought down to the average power level of the team you join.

(Possibly with slightly better defenses if you are normally a brick.)

 

If you are not very powerful in your own book (Batman) then you will be brought up to the average power level of the team you join.

 

It helps to avoid all those nasty situations where the Energy Blast that knocks down Superman hits Batman.

Because, based on relative Def, it should probably vaporize Batman, but it doesn't.

By making Team-member Superman weaker, and Team-member Batman stronger, you even everything out.

 

KA.

[Pogo]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

This is just another example of the two-sheet rule. Always more powerful in their solo books' date=' Bats was forced to use the weaker write-up as soon as the rest of the team showed...he didn't stand a chance.[/quote']

 

I think it's a different two-sheet rule. The writer was two sheets to the wind when he wrote it. The editor was probably three sheets to the wind when it crossed his table.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Isn't that usually the other way around? Batman's usually pushed to the limit by skilled thugs or professional assassins or gimmick villains like the Joker in his own book' date=' and can toe-to-toe with guys like Darkseid in JL.[/quote']

Bats my be the exception, then. (Though that makes even less sense here.) I'm thinking of the books where Flash runs at near light speeds on a regular basis in his own book, then has trouble outrunning a truck in the team book.

 

Or gets stabbed by a non-speedster...

[McCoy]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

I've always felt that Batman's martial arts were very inconsistently portrayed.

I maintain that Bruce Wayne was the first occidental master of the art of Ninjutsu.

[McCoy]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Can't read through all this now' date=' but am I the only one who remembers that when Spiderman beat Firelord it was right at the beginning of huge mysterious power-up he was going through that was ultimately identified as his coming into possession of the Captain Universe power? [/quote']

 

I think you probably are the only one' date=' because those two storylines were about four years apart and had over fifty issues between them. [/quote']

 

What he said.

[Weldun]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

My vote would have to be Superman vs. Superwoman and Superboy.

Superman returns from a mission in space, only to find that he is the most wanted supervillain in the world, having to hide from the superheroes.

Superwoman, a.k.a. Clara Kent.

Superboy, a.k.a. Lyndon Lee, I think.

Wonderman, a.k.a. Dean Prince.

I think you get the idea. Even the daily planet was no shelter. Louis Lane, Jenny Olsen & Penny White. Mxyzptlk was miffed that he had returned to marry his love, only to find that she had been under an illusion. Now while the marriage was annulled (false pretenses and all that), it had left our imp rather bitter, and while watching Supes and Lois get all lovey-dovey on his interdimensional viewer, he deiced that if he can't be happy, neither can supes.

 

My problem with the fight was how quickly it was over. Superwoman basically just wails on the Man-of-Steel while Superboy sneaksup behind him and slips a glass helmet filled with kryptonite gass over our hero's head.

 

How do you sneak up on someone with super-hearing?

[Kenn]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

I maintain that Bruce Wayne was the first occidental master of the art of Ninjutsu.

 

At least on Earth-2, where he began his career in 1939.

[Kenn]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

How do you sneak up on someone with super-hearing?

 

By flying faster than 1088 ft. per second. I don't care how super your hearing is, you're travelling faster than any noise you make. (Of course, the noise you're making should be very, very loud as the mach wave hits...)

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

I always got around that whole superspeed thing in DC by telling myself that they meant speed as compared to normal folk. I figured there had to be various levels of "superspeed." Some people were Flash fast, and others were just a lot faster than me.

 

Still I never knew how a lot of the DC villians ever stood a chance. Especially with some of the Silver Age power levels.

[Weldun]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

By flying faster than 1088 ft. per second. I don't care how super your hearing is' date=' you're travelling faster than any noise you make. (Of course, the noise you're making should be very, very loud as the mach wave hits...)[/quote']Except that in this fight, Superboy just flew up behind Superman all casual like, cape fluttering in the wind.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

By flying faster than 1088 ft. per second. I don't care how super your hearing is' date=' you're travelling faster than any noise you make. (Of course, the noise you're making should be very, very loud as the mach wave hits...)[/quote']

 

I'd like to point out two theings here:

 

1) Moving faster then the speed of sound isn't going to help. Superman can hear things accross the void of space! Logic need not apply!

 

2) It doesn't matter anyhow. For every one time Superman pulls a cool Dardevil on crack stunt with his super senses, he forgets he has them entierly nine more times...

 

How do you sneak up on someone with super-hearing?

 

Honestly? Superman's hearing is often portrayed as something he has to consciously switch on, much like his X-ray vision. He generally doesn't leave it running in a fight, though there are plenty of instances where he has. When he does use it in a fight, he's usually scanning for a specific sound, but this has been showed to leave him somewhat vulnerable to loud noises... this is one of those things that varies wildly from story to story though...

[David Johnston]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Actually Superman's superhearing is not so great as a method for avoiding being snuck up on. Assuming you aren't tuning it out then you are receiving an enormous flood of information at such a slight range gradient, that the automobiles on the highway into Beijing are way louder than the guy ten feet away from you. There's hearing, and then there's interpreting.

 

Thinking about it, the worst fight I ever saw in a comic book, was one where Superman's mind had been magically switched with that of a bad guy never seen before or since. Naturally, the bad guy immediately runs amuck with Superman's powers and the Teen Titans sally to stop an apparent rogue Superman.

 

I don't object to the fact that, predictably, the bad-guy in Superman's body fought with great inefficiency but still fed the Titans their teeth. I DO object to the peculiar tactics being used by the Titans, specifically, attacking one at a time; waiting for their predecessor to be defeated before each took his or her turn. When you are up against Superman, it isn't the moment to get all foggy on this "team worK" concept.

[Weldun]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

When you are up against Superman' date=' it isn't the moment to get all foggy on this "team worK" concept.[/quote']That is an understatement worthy of rep!