Worst comic book superfight ever

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Consider one of my faves' date=' JMS, in one of my least favorite books, Supreme Powers. Incidentally, it's being cancelled. Why? [/quote']

 

Actually, it's being replaced with Squadron Supreme after the current solo character miniseries, which is different (to me) from being cancelled.

[zornwil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Of course, and I agree. Much of it, of ourse depended on the style of the writer or artist and what they felt was important to show. I think that maybe titles like Iron Fist tried to be explicit with all of the action. Teen Titans maybe, too.

 

Another device which was used more frequently back then, and is less so now, is the use of narrative captions to tie battle scenes or sequences. Just now I was looking at the classic Defenders #10 with what may well be the all-time greatest Thor vs Hulk fight ever. It's interesting to reread it, now, as so many of the big moments in the battle are conveyed through narrative captions as much as action. I'm thinking, specifically, of the ultimate moment when Thor and the Hulk grapple and it says in the narrative, essentially, that "the two titans lock into an unmoving sculpture of bridled force" and that they subsequently grapple, motionlessly, for over an hour with neither relenting until they are split apart by the arrival of their teams. It's visually very simple but accompanied by the powerful, compressed narrative it becomes one of the best fight sequences ever.

 

Vigil

That's a good point re narratives, I remember it too now that you bring it up. Quite common early on, I think it got dropped as illustration approaches matured (and therefore at the same time audience sophistication in "reading" drawing increased).

[McCoy]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

That's a good point re narratives' date=' I remember it too now that you bring it up. Quite common early on, I think it got dropped as illustration approaches matured (and therefore at the same time audience sophistication in "reading" drawing increased).[/quote']

Not only the approch, but the technology allowed for more detail to come through in the drawings. Another factor was that in the 70's artist, and some writers, started studying cinematography, and begain ploting comic books like movies.

[Vigil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

IMO, the whole move to a more cinematic telling came along with guys like Neal Adams and Jim Steranko and I do agree that, with rare exceptions, comic illustration is more technically sophisticated than it's ever been. I'm not so sure about coloring. It's nice and glossy but, IMO, it tends to be flattened and at the same value wheras the best colorists of the past (like Glynis Wein) managed to incorporate depth and subtlety into their colors. But it may not be entirely the fault of the colors. Maybe the glossy papers smears stuff a bit.

 

Speaking of colors, I've been looking for a publisher for a comic book based on our campaign of 20 years, The Infinites. Have a look at the pages below and let me know what you think. I was contemplating approaching Steve Long with the project. Enjoy the pages.

 

INFINITES FULL COLOR PAGES

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p1_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p2_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p3_lettered.jpg

[braincraft]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

I'm not in the mood to read over the whole damn thread, so if this is a repeat, consider it a seconding:

 

There was this one Batman comic where some martial artist (Shiva, I'm pretty sure) goes around beating up kung fu masters. This one old dude smack talks her before they throw down. When he stands up, he has stumps for arms. Then he says something along the lines of:

 

"Now I will show you the true UNARMED COMBAT!"

 

And they fight, and Shiva breaks his neck or something, but by that point I was too boggled by the sheer idiocy of it all that I hardly remember the end.

[Vigil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Yeah that sounds quite moronic. Not familiar with the fight myself but it sounds quite unfortunate.

[zornwil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

IMO, the whole move to a more cinematic telling came along with guys like Neal Adams and Jim Steranko and I do agree that, with rare exceptions, comic illustration is more technically sophisticated than it's ever been. I'm not so sure about coloring. It's nice and glossy but, IMO, it tends to be flattened and at the same value wheras the best colorists of the past (like Glynis Wein) managed to incorporate depth and subtlety into their colors. But it may not be entirely the fault of the colors. Maybe the glossy papers smears stuff a bit.

 

Speaking of colors, I've been looking for a publisher for a comic book based on our campaign of 20 years, The Infinites. Have a look at the pages below and let me know what you think. I was contemplating approaching Steve Long with the project. Enjoy the pages.

 

INFINITES FULL COLOR PAGES

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p1_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p2_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p3_lettered.jpg

Wow, that's awesome! Good luck! (And if you get bored, you can illustrate my campaign's adventures... )

[Vigil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Thanks for the compliment, Z. I'll pass it on to the artist.

[austenandrews]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

That's terrific artwork.

[Vigil]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Thanks. The artist, Kelly, and I first started working together in a local fanzine about 15 years ago and we've collaborated on projects ever since. Modestly, I think he's the best artist not currently contracted in the comics industry. His stuff is amazing and just keeps getting better. Plus we have a phenomenal inker and colorist working with us, also. It's like a dream team, lol.

[Sealemon]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

"

See there is this canadian Mutant with claws and a healing factor, and this alien who normaly fights GL's and Superman who is super strong, has knives, and a even BETTER healing factor. They meet up in an intergalactic bar and throw down (over some stupid, this is how bar brawls start issue), they take it behind the bar, and then some fight noices, then wolverine stands up and says "He's the best at what he does bub"

 

Shows you how popularity can turn the tide of common sense"

 

 

That was only the prequel. Anyone read the Access sequel, where the JLA fought the X Men (Storm, Cyclops, Jubilee, De-Phoenixed Jean Grey, Bishop, Ice Man, and Cannonball)? Here's a partial list of the cheese:

 

1. Cannonball nails Aquaman with his canonflight...so far, so good. But he then proceeds to pimp slap Aquaman in hand to hand combat. Umm...no.

 

2. Batman is shown charging Cyclops and dodging his blasts...pretty bad, but THEN he grabs Cyclops in a rear choke hold, and someohw Cyclops STILL manages to blast him off panel. Scott can turn his head 180 degrees? Who knew?

 

3. Jean Grey holds off SUPERMAN by TK'ing rocks into him. Fist-sized, kriptonite-free rocks.

 

But the winner?

 

4. Bishops beats up the Martian Manhunter. Just kicks his ass (Physically, mind, not through absorbing J'ohns Martian vision) in each and every panel shown. At one point, he pulls a bookcase on top of J'ohn, and THIS HURTS HIM.

 

 

I can see the writter having a Marvel bias, but he could have at LEAST done some basic research on the characters he was using.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Was the bookcase on fire?

[Sealemon]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Nope. No fire anywhere in the vicenity, as a matter of fact. Just Bishop connecting with a haymaker, and stunning J'ohn long enough to finish him off with a bookcase.

 

I can only assume it was actually Snapper Carr wearing a mask and green body paint.

[Mike W]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Which meaningless, poorly-drawn, or unlikely in result ("Beast Boy just beat Darkseid?") brawl do you nominate?

 

I've been reading little beyond JSA recently, so I can't think of a good choice right now. The closest I can get is the first Doomsday-Superman fight. When Supes saw how dangerous Doomsday was, why didn't he just try grabbing Doomsy and hurling him into space at escape velocity?

 

I agree the Death of Superman fight against Doomsday was awful. Very overdramatic and very poorly thought out in all sorts of ways. It simply shouldn't have happened at all.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

2. Batman is shown charging Cyclops and dodging his blasts...pretty bad, but THEN he grabs Cyclops in a rear choke hold, and someohw Cyclops STILL manages to blast him off panel. Scott can turn his head 180 degrees? Who knew?

 

Of the ones you listed, this is the only one I could see happening. But only because Scott can do rediculous beam bouncing trick shots with his optic blasts...

 

Still, sounds awful all around

[csyphrett]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

The worst part about that fight (if this makes it worse), Batman was soloing all of those X-Men on his own before the JLA got there.

CES

[Captain Emu]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Maybe not the worst fight, but the most contrived line in a fight.

 

Spiderman is fighting some wonky villain and asks, "Who the heck are you?"

 

To which the answer comes, "Good question and I am, The Answer"

 

Tell me they didn't make up that villain just for that line.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

"

See there is this canadian Mutant with claws and a healing factor, and this alien who normaly fights GL's and Superman who is super strong, has knives, and a even BETTER healing factor. They meet up in an intergalactic bar and throw down (over some stupid, this is how bar brawls start issue), they take it behind the bar, and then some fight noices, then wolverine stands up and says "He's the best at what he does bub"

 

Shows you how popularity can turn the tide of common sense"

 

 

That was only the prequel. Anyone read the Access sequel, where the JLA fought the X Men (Storm, Cyclops, Jubilee, De-Phoenixed Jean Grey, Bishop, Ice Man, and Cannonball)? Here's a partial list of the cheese:

 

1. Cannonball nails Aquaman with his canonflight...so far, so good. But he then proceeds to pimp slap Aquaman in hand to hand combat. Umm...no.

 

2. Batman is shown charging Cyclops and dodging his blasts...pretty bad, but THEN he grabs Cyclops in a rear choke hold, and someohw Cyclops STILL manages to blast him off panel. Scott can turn his head 180 degrees? Who knew?

 

3. Jean Grey holds off SUPERMAN by TK'ing rocks into him. Fist-sized, kriptonite-free rocks.

 

But the winner?

 

4. Bishops beats up the Martian Manhunter. Just kicks his ass (Physically, mind, not through absorbing J'ohns Martian vision) in each and every panel shown. At one point, he pulls a bookcase on top of J'ohn, and THIS HURTS HIM.

 

 

I can see the writter having a Marvel bias, but he could have at LEAST done some basic research on the characters he was using.

 

I'm glad I never saw that. It sounds like pure garbage. Superman could basically handle all of the X-Men listed there by himself. That was the whole point of the Marvel character Gladiator from the Imperial Guard.

 

Hell, Martian Manhunter could give that crew a run for their money for a few minutes, if he was written well.

 

 

 

I like Bishop as a character, but he cannot physically fight MM, who is almost as strong as Supes in his resting state. That is just ridiculous.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

martian man hunter shoudl be mroe than a match for the x men

 

i mean hes got half of the teams powers on his own

 

not only is he a world class telepath he has heat vision, flight, desoldification and super strength not to mention both mimicry and combat shapeshifting

[hooligan x]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Speaking of colors, I've been looking for a publisher for a comic book based on our campaign of 20 years, The Infinites. Have a look at the pages below and let me know what you think. I was contemplating approaching Steve Long with the project. Enjoy the pages.

 

INFINITES FULL COLOR PAGES

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p1_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p2_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p3_lettered.jpg

 

Holy crap, that looks good. Is there more yet or do we have to wait for it to be published? I hope for MY sake, you find a publisher soon. Good luck!

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

IMO, the whole move to a more cinematic telling came along with guys like Neal Adams and Jim Steranko and I do agree that, with rare exceptions, comic illustration is more technically sophisticated than it's ever been. I'm not so sure about coloring. It's nice and glossy but, IMO, it tends to be flattened and at the same value wheras the best colorists of the past (like Glynis Wein) managed to incorporate depth and subtlety into their colors. But it may not be entirely the fault of the colors. Maybe the glossy papers smears stuff a bit.

 

Speaking of colors, I've been looking for a publisher for a comic book based on our campaign of 20 years, The Infinites. Have a look at the pages below and let me know what you think. I was contemplating approaching Steve Long with the project. Enjoy the pages.

 

INFINITES FULL COLOR PAGES

 

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p1_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p2_lettered.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/DavidWDThomas/infinites_sample_p3_lettered.jpg

 

WOW! That's some great work there.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

How about a three-panel Wolverine/Sabertooth fight?

 

An old X-Men, I believe it was the finale of Inferno. Wolverine catches the scent of Sabertooth in a close-up panel of his head. Next panel, rear shot of Wolverine facing down Sabertooth (back when 'tooth wasn't so overmuscled).

 

Insert two pages of miscellaneous goings-on.

 

Panel consisting of a close-up of Wolverine's hand, claws out, with 'SNIKT'.

Panel consisting of Wolverine standing over a fallen Sabertooth.

 

That's it.

[proditor]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

How about a three-panel Wolverine/Sabertooth fight?

 

An old X-Men, I believe it was the finale of Inferno. Wolverine catches the scent of Sabertooth in a close-up panel of his head. Next panel, rear shot of Wolverine facing down Sabertooth (back when 'tooth wasn't so overmuscled).

 

Insert two pages of miscellaneous goings-on.

 

Panel consisting of a close-up of Wolverine's hand, claws out, with 'SNIKT'.

Panel consisting of Wolverine standing over a fallen Sabertooth.

 

That's it.

 

That was post Mutant Massacre IIRC. Yeah, that should have been a much longer fight. Granted, ole 'tooth used to get beat like a war drum once a week by Iron Fist back in the day, but after MM, he was fairly hard core.

[Blue]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Was the bookcase on fire?

No, just the author's pants.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

Granted' date=' ole 'tooth used to get beat like a war drum once a week by Iron Fist back in the day, but after MM, he was fairly hard core.[/quote']

 

Only a few months before X-Men 213, SabreTooth had apppeared in a Spider Man book, and had been severely injured ripping Spidey's webbing off his face (and taking off much of his own face in the process). he had reappeared some months later and torn the stitches on his face. Before that, as you note, he was regularly smacked around by Iron Fist and other characters of similar power level.

 

Suddenly, a month or two later, he's at a level where he can challenge the entire X-Men team and happily go toe to toe with Wolverine. He recovers from Wolvie's claws almost instantly, but those facial wounds took weeks or months to heal. No explanation was offered for this huge power-up. To my knowledge, no explanation has been offered to date.

 

Given most of the "worst super-fight ever" nominees feature charaters suddenly able to take on threats far beyond anything their prior history shows them as beong remotely competetive with, it seems to me X-Men #213 is a worthy nominee. The only reason it doesn't come up is because the huge power-up was retained afterwards, but we're still left with "Bad @$$ Sabertooth" (1st app X-Men #213; lengthy history following) and "Sabretooth Lite" (lengthy history of being beat up by Iron fist, SpiderMan and similar characters - not challenging them, getting beat up by them).