Lord Mhoram Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? I guess I'm just a comics/superhero slavering ubergeek. (I was going to say something else but that was filtered out). I loved DC before Crisis, I loved a lot of it after crisis. I loved Marvel up until the midlate 80's. Most of what I buy has been the big two (except when Crossgen was around, now there was some amazing comics). I love DC now, I loved chunks of DC before the whole IC set up. I loved some of Marvel during that time (Busiek then Johns on Avengers... WooHOOO). I like a number of Marvel titles now, and love the Ulti-verse. Of coure working in a comic shop for 5 years, and getting my ccomics and trades at cost helps there. If I had to spend real money, instead of store credit, I would likely only read about 6 titles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? The past reboots and what came after each time utterly prove that reboots do not do anything to fix a setting or storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? The past reboots and what came after each time utterly prove that reboots do not do anything to fix a setting or storyline. In large part the problem is with corporate ownership of characters. Creator owned stables of characters can change and develop meanigfully over time. A single artist in charge of a creative team can maintain a certain artistic vision (more or less), and the story can be allowed to reach a natural end. This is in theory possible with corporate owned characters; so long as a single writer or tight team is in charge, a storyarc can have a clear beginnig, middle and end, and the character can grow and change in response to events. With corporate owned characters in practice, almost no growth or change is ever permenant; the next writer or writing team is free to reset the character to whatever baseline the editors prefer and move from there. I'm not sure that there is a solution to this problem, but there is a reason that tribute characters like those in Astro City or America's Best Comics are often more interesting than the corporate characters that inspired them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Ops Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Has anybody else heard the Rumor that the "New" Flash is actually Barry Allen ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Has anybody else heard the Rumor that the "New" Flash is actually Barry Allen ? Yes, I have heard that, as well as Bart and Jay. So far the only picture I have seen anywhere after March of a Flash is Jay on the cover of JSA though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? In other words, they're not really characters, they're properties used to generate income through their images and presences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? In other words' date=' they're not really characters, they're properties used to generate income through their images and presences.[/quote'] As is basically everyone in the Champions Universe. If they weren't there would have been a whole new CU to contend with. DOJ purchased the IP with the intent of making money off of it. Profit is not a dirty word [especially in the comic industry where few comics break the 60,000 barrier now]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? As is basically everyone in the Champions Universe. If they weren't there would have been a whole new CU to contend with. DOJ purchased the IP with the intent of making money off of it. Profit is not a dirty word [especially in the comic industry where few comics break the 60' date=000 barrier now]. Which is fine when the characters aren't also part of an ongoing story, and don't need to be able to change over time. The problem comes in the conflict between good storytelling, and profit. If someone decides to sacrifice the art in order to maximize their profits, then they're scum. See also, Marvel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Which is fine when the characters aren't also part of an ongoing story, and don't need to be able to change over time. The problem comes in the conflict between good storytelling, and profit. If someone decides to sacrifice the art in order to maximize their profits, then they're scum. See also, Marvel. The alternative is to let the art die because no one is reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? If someone decides to sacrifice the art in order to maximize their profits' date=' then they're scum.[/quote'] Have you seen many recent DOJ books? I think DC is trying to bring back a sense of legacy. It would not surprise me if Barry comes back. Hal was brought back even though Kyle has become a very popular character. After 20 years I think of lot of us would like to see Barry return. Sometimes you can make a profit and please the fans at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? In other words' date=' they're not really characters, they're properties used to generate income through their images and presences.[/quote'] They are corporate owned characters used to generate income, just as creator owned characters are used to generate income. The difference is in the interest the owner has in telling an artistically satisfying story. Alan Moore can allow his version of Edward Hyde to grow as a character, and can eventually kill him off, because, as a writer, Moore’s desire to tell a good story and move on outweighs his need to milk the Hyde property for money for an indefinite period of time. Time Warner, as an entity, has no vested interest in storytelling quality beyond the bare minimum needed to promote a certain level of sales and cross marketing. McDonalds will always provide you with a hamburger of a certain quality, low as that might be. If you want a really good meal, you’re much better off going to a restaurant with a chef who takes pride in his work, or just cooking it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? As is basically everyone in the Champions Universe. If they weren't there would have been a whole new CU to contend with. DOJ purchased the IP with the intent of making money off of it. Profit is not a dirty word [especially in the comic industry where few comics break the 60' date=000 barrier now]. Profit is fine, but when you trade product quality for profit over time you will lose a certain percentage of consumers. That's not that much of a problem; McDonalds does just fine, and their product is just one step away from crap. Still, if and as a consumer's tastes develop, he's likely to decide to eat less and less at McDonalds over time. Some consumers won't make that change, and aside from the obesity, skin problems and heart disease, bully for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Gandhi Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Can not stand IC and the stuff that lead to it myself. The only comic of DC's i buy anymore is Legion of Superheroes, which is still good. Marvel-wise, I still dig the Ultimate universe, plus I grab Slott's She-Hulk, Whedon's Astonishing X-men, and I'm a new convert to the awesome power of Runaways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Have you seen many recent DOJ books? I think DC is trying to bring back a sense of legacy. It would not surprise me if Barry comes back. Hal was brought back even though Kyle has become a very popular character. After 20 years I think of lot of us would like to see Barry return. Sometimes you can make a profit and please the fans at the same time. That would be great! And I hope he brings a revitalized Ray Palmer with him too. The world needs the awesome duo of Flash and Atom! Besides, all they've done with Wally is increase his powers beyond reason (although the Speed Force seems to have been destroyed - last issue of JSA) and make him a clone of Barry (in group books anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellS Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? New Flast concept art [still don't know who it is]: http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Flash/FlashSketch01.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Besides' date=' all they've done with Wally is increase his powers beyond reason (although the Speed Force seems to have been destroyed - last issue of JSA) [/quote'] Wait -- if the Speed Force is destroyed, then how do DC speedsters use their powers? Isn't it supposed to be *the* source of Flash-level speedsters? Or does that come under the heading of, "Only a geek cares about that?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstone Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? New Flast concept art [still don't know who it is]: http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Flash/FlashSketch01.jpg Well, if the belt is any indication, then it's Wally. But obviously with it being concept art, could be anyone. Wait -- if the Speed Force is destroyed, then how do DC speedsters use their powers? Isn't it supposed to be *the* source of Flash-level speedsters? Or does that come under the heading of, "Only a geek cares about that?" there are many possibilites here. For one, it may not actully be destroyed. Or it might be destroyed for now, only to come back during/after IC. Or it's possible that the speed force has been drasticly altered in some way so that it's just different now. Or they could just say "we only invented the Speed Force 12 years ago. We had Flashes before that and no one had a problem with it, so we don't need the speed force anymore". 'Course, there is also the distinct possibility that Wally IS/WAS the Speed Force... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Mhoram Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Wait -- if the Speed Force is destroyed' date=' then how do DC speedsters use their powers? Isn't it supposed to be *the* source of Flash-level speedsters? Or does that come under the heading of, "Only a geek cares about that?"[/quote'] The speed force went away about the same time the heroes dissapeard. I think the lack of speed force is related to Earth-2 coming back. When all is said and done, it will come back, but changed. That's my theory anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jhamin Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? The speed force went away about the same time the heroes dissapeard. I think the lack of speed force is related to Earth-2 coming back. When all is said and done, it will come back, but changed. That's my theory anyway. More importantly, the speed force has now existed for 12 years. This means that the guy who will be the new hot artist/writer/whatever in 5 years probably grew up with it. Even if they don't bring it back after IC, the Speed Force is now so firmly enmeshed in the Flash's history that eventually our hypothetical hot young talent *will* bring it back because it was around when he discovered the flash and he thinks it was stupid to ever get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Wait -- if the Speed Force is destroyed' date=' then how do DC speedsters use their powers? Isn't it supposed to be *the* source of Flash-level speedsters? Or does that come under the heading of, "Only a geek cares about that?"[/quote'] It means in the next crossover, Quicksilver will finally kick the Flash's smug little patootie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan D. Hurricanes Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? It means in the next crossover' date=' Quicksilver will finally kick the Flash's smug little patootie.[/quote'] In his pointy haired dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jim Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? but they're bringing back "the warlord" aka travis morgan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenAge Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? New Flast concept art [still don't know who it is]: http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Flash/FlashSketch01.jpg That pic could be of any flash since 1956. The great thing about Silver Age Flash's costume is that it's as perfect as a superhero costume can get. Sure, you can change the angle of his lightning belt, or add real lightning to his chest plate and wing-tipped ears... But no matter what you do, the Crimson and Gold is undeniably superhero design at it's best - simple, colorful and super! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinDangaioh Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? Here's something vrviperii on the DC Message boards wrote on the Did anyone else feel ill watching Superboy Prime fight? thread about Infinite Crisis. If Will Eisner's A Contract With God can't make people see comics as literature, or Spiegelman's Maus can't do it either-and neither book did-then I know damn well f'n Geoff Johns Infinite Crisis won't do the trick. What these guys need to do is drop the pretentious crap and write comics that are damn well proud of what they are. If people can't look at Jack Kirby, Will Eisner and Joe Kubert's work, just to cite a few examples, and say it is not art then they ARE the closed-minded idiots we've been hearing about. Comics don't have to be literature. They are their own art form, just as legitimate and as substantial as any other art form. What I can't stand is the pretentious "realism" BS in books where people fly and wear skintight spandex. Here's real realism: a person dresses in spandex or rubber kevlar body armor, etc, tries to rappel off of a skyscraper and falls to a brutal, messy death. Hurray for realism, and have a nice day! If I want realism I'll watch CNN. I buy a comic, I want escapism and a fairy tale. That's why every kid that has an interest in fantasy reads Harry Potter or watches Inu Yasha and why the only thing keeping American Comics from extinction is profits for movie versions of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Re: DC Suckverse? The flash's head is HUGE in those drawings. Especially the left one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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