Is there going to be a heroes book?

[Hermit]

Iconics

 

Yeah, All American has a Cap vibe going... though I haven't really tried him out yet as an NPC and am not sure if I like him yet (He's got big shoes to fill *S*)

 

I don't see Nighthawk as Nightwing...he's not under anyone's shadow for one thing. I prefer to think of Nighthawk as 'Batman: Year One' with the added twist of he is more willing to try teamwork... barely.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we find our 5E 'Superman' type in Europe or something, given Captain Australia of 4e.

 

While I don't see our beloved Peter Parker being a govt agent for long, for spider POWERS there is a guy named Tarantula working for the FBI in 5e NYC.

[Monolith]

Re: Iconics

 

Originally posted by Hermit

Yeah, All American has a Cap vibe going... though I haven't really tried him out yet as an NPC and am not sure if I like him yet (He's got big shoes to fill *S*)

All American is much more like Nick Fury without being the leader of SHIELD, IMO. He's just a slightly above average trained guy with a patriotic mindset.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we find our 5E 'Superman' type in Europe or something, given Captain Australia of 4e.

Hyperion might fit that bill, but we do not really know much about him, other than his "burning light of truth" powers.

 

Just expanding on the list I would say:

Maris = Namor

Nightwind = Nighwing

MeteorMan = Green Lantern

Defender = Ironman

Sapphire = Dazzler

Dr. Silverback = Beast

Diamond = Thing

Nighthawk = Batman

Kinetik = Flash

Star*Guard = Green Lantern Corp

 

That is all I can think of off the top of my head.

[djday38]

I think making the Superman type non american based would not feel right to me, although obviously of alien origin, he has always felt very american to me, most likely due to his traditional values and costume colours.

 

Although I would not mind if the powers that be set up more than one Supes type character so they could be rivals, so we could have a Superman/Captain Marvel thing going on.

 

I think with Kelvarite being present in the CU, that the stage is just set for a great Superman tribute with maybe his rival hero being more magically inclined (and maybe from europe). If they also connected their power sets in some way so they were both vulnerable to the other, it would be great.

 

It would also be cool if they eventually introduced a extended super family for one of the characters (supergirl, Superboy, Mary Marvel, Cap Marvel Jr.).

 

We already have some Superman rogues gallery present (Franklin stone springs instantly to mind).

 

rgds

Dean

[BlackKnight]

I'm in exactly the same situation, Morningstar, and feel the same way as you. I love all of the hero-centric books I've seen from Hero in the past: the aformentioned Allies, plus Champions of the North and Kingdom of Champions, which detail lots of heroes from Canada and the UK, respectively. I've always viewed those books, along with the Mutant File, and, to a lesser extent, the enemies books, as great resources for ideas/examples for my own characters. If I'm creating a speedster character or an archer or something, it's great to find similar characters to see the way they are written up, detailed, steal ideas from, etc. I imagine that the USPD will fill that role nicely (mine won't be here until next week), but a list of powers and a book of complete characters is two different things...both would be welcome in my collection.

 

Originally posted by Morningstar

I would love to have a heroes book simply because(like most of my friends) I don't get a chance to play anymore but reading all the material and mentally making characters is still a lot of fun. I might be in the minority but having a good career, family and little time, makes it hard to play but easy to afford books that cost less than taking the family to one movie. Ill buy them all unless the start to become rushed or poor quality.

[BlackKnight]

Re: Re: Allies

 

I would buy an international heroes/villains book as well. I second the earlier endorsement of the GURPS International Super Teams setting book. While I wouldn't play GURPS Supers over Champions, the IST idea is very cool and it's great brain-fodder to see lots of example heroes written up with international twists.

 

 

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

 

As far as new NPC heroes goes, while I'm not sure I'd be that interested in a book focussing on more North American supeheroes (between old and new edition writeups I think I have that pretty well covered), the heroes of many other countries would definitely interest me. International NPC heroes make good encounters as local color or visitors to this continent on special missions. Ideally I support the previously mentioned notion of a book or books detailing various regions of the world, with notable heroes and villains from each region. I'm sure there'd be a market for that. [/b]

[Agent X]

Originally posted by djday38

Yes, Captain Patriot does feel like a golden age hybrid of Cap and Supes, although he would be much too low in power level for my taste to represent the modern version of Superman.

Again like yourself I have on idea which hero this would be if any from the info thus far provided.

 

Th All American feels like the modern cap to me, while others that spring to mind would be Meteor Man 3, being the clear Green Lantern type. I especially like the legacy involved with the character, it was a nice touch.

 

Others would be the Fab Five equalling the Fantastic Four, and Nighthawk being Batman, although i would like to see him powered up if that were the case, hmm maybe he more represents Nightwing and we have yet to see an older more experianced scarey Batman type, maybe when Dark Champions comes out?

 

anyone else have any guesses? this is turning out to be fun!

 

rgds

Dean

Nightwing is mighty! Let's not forget he ko'd Hal Jordan and was trained by the Warlords of Okaara. I don't care how badly they write him now. He was once... a Titan.

[bcholmes]

Re: Allies

 

Originally posted by SKJAM!

One option I've seen good reviews for is the "guest hero", someone with a very straightforward set of powers (to make for a simpler character sheet) who during most game sessions is busy with his own affairs, but when a new player drops by, is available to help out. (This saves time for not having to teach the creation rules to a newbie the first game session.)

 

Oooo. I like that idea.

[bcholmes]

Originally posted by djday38 I think making the Superman type non american based would not feel right to me, although obviously of alien origin, he has always felt very american to me, most likely due to his traditional values and costume colours.

Heh. I still think of Superman as a Canadian hero. (C'mon... you did know that Metropolis is Toronto, didn't you? Complete with the Toronto Star... er... Daily Star!)

In terms of Champions Universe Superman, I thought that Vanguard filled that role (mostly, 'cause I really see the Justice Squadron as a Justice Society parallel)BCing you

[wcw43921]

I always considered Starburst the Champions "version" of Superman, if for no other reason than he could fly and he wore a cape. He may not have had the power level (closer to Spider-Man's) and the high-ideal mindset (Psych Lim: Publicity Seeker) of Big Red, but that could come soon enough given time and experience points.

 

 

I do wish they'd kept Crusader and Starburst for 5th Edition.

[assault]

Originally posted by wcw43921

I always considered Starburst the Champions "version" of Superman, if for no other reason than he could fly and he wore a cape. He may not have had the power level (closer to Spider-Man's) and the high-ideal mindset (Psych Lim: Publicity Seeker) of Big Red, but that could come soon enough given time and experience points.

 

 

I do wish they'd kept Crusader and Starburst for 5th Edition.

 

Hmm, Starburst as Superman? I have to confess that while the idea has crossed my mind, I've always immediately dismissed it without taking the time to think it through. I may take that time, now.

 

I miss Starburst and Crusader too. In fact, my thoughts on a campaign design book were derived from what I have been doing with them lately.

 

I pulled out my old copy of 2nd Ed Champions recently (my copy of 1st Ed seems to be buried deeper in the "files"), had an attack of nostalgia, and started building a CU based on the characters in the book, refraining from any heresies like Dr Destroyer, Stronghold, the Enemies books, and so on.. (I conceded a place for Holocaust, though, since he appeared on the front cover.)

 

To my surprise, it actually worked! There is quite a neat little universe tucked in there, which I missed when I was young. The trick is to fiddle with the time line, so Shrinker, for example, starts off as a heroine and an associate of Starburst and Crusader, and only goes bad during the course of the campaign. Mechanon, similarly, shouldn't exist at the start, but should be built as a security robot for the hero team. That would probably take a bit of manipulation in a real game, but could be managed.

 

Ogre would be created by Mechanon during the game.

Dragonfly could be a rampaging lab accident, who it might be possible to "cure". Of course, the "cure" might not be permanent.

Icicle (Christine Saunders) might be a relative (niece, cousin, sister?) of Crusader (Sam Saunders).

Pulsar might begin as VIPER's main super muscle in the area, before getting his own ideas.

(and so on...)

 

This stuff actually sounds like a comic series, doesn't it? Soap all over the place. And we haven't even looked at DNPCs, agencies, corporations (Bio-Investigations? Well, I suppose we could look at the 4th Ed write up for them...), or written up any actual player characters to replace Crusader and Starburst as the stars of the campaign.

 

Enough. I'm rambling.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Monolith]

Originally posted by assault

I miss Starburst and Crusader too. In fact, my thoughts on a campaign design book were derived from what I have been doing with them lately.

Crusader is still part of the CU (he is listed as a New York City hero), though it appears to be a sword-wielding version, possibly the character from C:tNM.

[assault]

Originally posted by Monolith

Crusader is still part of the CU (he is listed as a New York City hero), though it appears to be a sword-wielding version, possibly the character from C:tNM.

 

Exactly. The original version is not only gone, it's been made explicitly clear that he won't be back.

 

Crusader is no longer part of the CU. Some other guy has replaced him.

 

Crusader is not merely pining for the fjords: he is a dead parrot.

 

If any of my characters ever run into the punk that stole his name, they'll give him a serious kicking.

 

Alan

[djday38]

Starburst always felt more like someone like Firestorm to me.

He is too much of an energy projector and not enough of a brick to be the CU Superman.

 

Talking about old characters I would love to see Dragonfly back in print. While i suspect he may have been replaced by the villain Hornet, there is still room for him if you make him a ravenous insect with the intelligence of a animal, with only food on his mind, and that food is you! (thoughts of the fly movie come to mind).

 

rgds

Dean

[Enforcer84]

I feel nostalgic for a lot of the gone but not forgottons. To this day, I would love to see write ups for the Guardians. (not the Champions from the comics althought they might have been accurate, I need to see Gargoyle or no deal).

I'd like to see mention of or inclusion of: Starburst, Crusader, The Geodesics,

Thunder & Lightning, Hideous, Wyvern, Fire & Ice, and among the 4ed set that I liked from the examples: Randal Irons, Dimitri Ironjaw, Arkelos the Mage, Holocost, the guy in the blue and silver he's fighting, sigh, getting nostalgic in my age.

[assault]

Originally posted by djday38

Starburst always felt more like someone like Firestorm to me.

He is too much of an energy projector and not enough of a brick to be the CU Superman.

 

Talking about old characters I would love to see Dragonfly back in print. While i suspect he may have been replaced by the villain Hornet, there is still room for him if you make him a ravenous insect with the intelligence of a animal, with only food on his mind, and that food is you! (thoughts of the fly movie come to mind).

 

rgds

Dean

 

Starting with Dragonfly: Yes. Make him a curable rampager, and you're cooking with gas. Something like the Lizard from Spiderman.

 

Starburst: Again, yes. His personality is definitely reminiscent of Firestorm (early Firestorm, anyway), as well as Booster Gold and Blue Beetle. He has a definite showboat and "in it for the fun and ego boost" aspect. Still, he could always mature, at least a bit.

 

As for being a potential "Superman" - well, I suppose it depends what you mean by it. He's not a brick, obviously, but he could still potentially be the iconic hero of heroes. (He would need to mature a lot first, of course!) He doesn't really need to have Superman's powers, or even the full extent of Superman's power level, to fill this role.

 

To tweak him to make him suitable for this role, you would have to expand his multipower a bit - he does need a bit more power - and build up his characteristics a bit (more PRE, INT, EGO, BOD...) You would also need to pad out his hand to hand combat capabilities a bit by, say, giving him some rather basic Martial Arts, as well as increasing his Strength to, say, 20. That would give him the capacity to bash thugs, without making him a brick. Finally, add lots and lots of skills and perks. This would probably take him up to about 450 points, without doing too much damage to his original character conception.

 

At that point, my 250 or 350 point characters might be willing to call him "sir". My 450 point characters would be honoured to call him "friend". What more do you want?

 

Alan

[djday38]

Yes the Lizard/Mam-Bat type is an exact fit for Dragonfly and Champions used to have a few of these types which have yet to show up in the new CU (Wyvern and the Griffon also come to mind).

 

A Superman type for me anyway needs to VERY strong and tough, at least 70+ strength. Mixed in with some slightly weaker energy projector powers and good movement.

 

Most importantly is his personality, which has to be very heroic.

 

rgds

Dean

[SKJAM!]

Re: On Executive Sanction

 

Originally posted by Hermit

I have to admit, Executive Sanction really didn't do anything for me. They were okay, but my least favorite team in the book. They didn't seem very formidible (nothing wrong with that if you prefer them as investigative over combat ready I suppose), OR interesting (Sorry, I found their personalities mostly bland). Out of all the teams in allies, I think they would need the most retooling. Understand, I'm comparing them to the other teams in the Allies book, some of which were exceptional.

 

This is what happens when you have to get Congressional approval for your members. No people who look too freakish, have bizarre personalities, or major skeletons in their closets.

 

Thoughts on possible updates in another post.

 

SKJAM!

"For justice!"

[bubba smith]

Re: Is there going to be a heroes book?

 

as for the classic cu's answer to the alleged wall crawling weasel since he's always being overmatched i'd say SEEKER would fill the bill

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is there going to be a heroes book?

 

And bubbamancy is loose again.

 

FWIW here's an outline of my own recent retooling of Executive Sanction from the 4E Allies book, using characters from the 5E Champions Universe so the team could easily be incorporated into it:

 

Project Sunburst and PRIMUS are both part of the official setting, so b]Major Star[/b] and Silver Avenger Rackham can be used with little change. Victory (Champions Universe) can substitute for Traveler -- their origins are nearly identical, and because of it Victory could justifiably be NASA's contribution to the team.

 

Kodiak (Millennium City) can replace Gumshoe as the FBI's contribution, and his origin, pseudo-bestial nature, and relatively low Character Point total would justify adding Gumshoe's Enhanced Senses to his abilities. Kodiak's partner from MC, Teknique, has powers similar to Stewart White's but more combat ability, and a background and nature that would have suited her to the IRS before joining Executive Sanction.

 

Foresight can remain as is; although for my campaign I replaced her stunner gun with an innate Ego Attack defined as "sensory overload." As Allies points out Panacea was never temperamentally suited for this team, and his Powers have limited use; but for my games I blended him with Lifeline from the 4E Mutant File. The two characters have similar backgrounds and ideologies, but Lifeline is more useful in a fight and has more motivation for active superheroing.

 

This lineup retains most of the intelligence-gathering strengths of the original, but is far more combat-effective.

[Beast]

Re: Is there going to be a heroes book?

 

with 6th edition only 6 to 7 months away

getting an idea on how heroes should cost out with the possible changes that have been brought up in the 6th ed forums(from removing secondary characteristics entirely to tweaking some to take over from others)

also a listing of "Jobs that I can come back to without loosing should an emergency arise and need to leave in a hurry to save the DNPC/city/country/world/universe/ etc"

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Is there going to be a heroes book?

 

And now that we've been through the controversy and past, I have to say that the "heroes books" (Champions Worldwide, CU:NOTW, Champions of the North) have been some of my favourites. I mean, who doesn't like team-up books, and these characters are written to unleash the possibilities? I can't see a campaign set in Vancouver not drawing in "global" elements. The plot driving elements are huge:

Ravenspeaker, of course, as Vancouver's senior super, tweaked as I've suggested in other postings (Scott Bennie's excellent background in CN s a long leg-pull, which is absolutely Raven's style, and he's actually the supposedly late Haida sculptor Bill Reid). People who've been following the local news know that Ravenspeaker recently had to deal with a crisis so big that he needed to "borrow" back a few items he thought he could leave behind the ironclad wards at the UBC Museum of Anthropology forever.

Soaring Eagle, because Japanese-Korean-Chinese girls touristgirls are everywhere around here, and she has some unfinished business with a Canadian connection, (Hidden Lands, 90)

Tetsuronin/Charm Girl (because ditto)

Corrente on the same theme, only Portuguese tourist instead

StarForce, not least because Potenstorm is apparently in Vancouver, now

The Indian Superhero Division, for undercover work, probably meaning Anvil and especially Saba Devatao

Tiger Squad

Der Bogenschutze Stalking a German criminal on his B.C. big-game hunting vacation only to find that he's protected by Warpath of the War Machine. And then things take a turn for the strange.... Ooh, this one is writing itself as I think about it...

[Tech]

Re: Is there going to be a heroes book?

 

To back Steve up on this one' date=' I remember the ol' ICE and Hero folk mentioning that 4th ed Allies was one of the worst sellers for them. Now, I have no numbers to back up that claim, but both ICE and Hero folk mentioned it to me back in the day.[/quote']

 

I bought Allies, so I was one of those buyers. Yea, me! Still have it and use it from time to time, too.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is there going to be a heroes book?

 

I bought Allies' date=' so I was one of those buyers. Yea, me! Still have it and use it from time to time, too.[/quote']

 

Ditto. The Cyberknights remain one of my favorite Champs NPC hero teams, interesting characters with a strong unifying theme. Executive Sanction and the Zen Team both made it into my games. And my PCs had built up a lot of resentment toward the Flashmen by the time they finally got the chance to show them up (and kick their butts), which they found very satisfying.