WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

[DEFCON Clown]

For the last two years your hero and the team he or she is a member, of if they are in a team, have been fighting a Demon sorcerer. In the process many people have died including several people very close to you. Finally you manage to defeat the Demon and as he lays dying he casts one last spell. Then he dies.

 

Three months later you're attacked by his Wraiths. You know this means he's back as his Wraiths are a physical manifestation of his malvolence. You track him down and find that he is now inside the body of a three year old child. Exsorcism is impossible as he is bonded to the child's soul.

What do you do?

[薔薇語]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

hmm it would be a hard choice but if there was no other way to exercise him from it. And he was fully aware of himself. I would have to say "kill the baby." Now if he wasn't aware of himself I would raise the Child, afterall it wouldn't hurt to have a super child on my team that could help us. And if we could exercise him, Well...I would have so many new ways of killing the sorceror that he would only wish for death. (wow ok maybe the Rose just became the Black Rose )

 

La Rose

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Oh yeah the demon is in fully aware and in complete control.

[Drhoz]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Weld the kid's hands into spell-cutting manacles, chain him to the wall in a suitably prepared pit under the Skeleton Crew's tenement block, throw him the occasional rat to eat, if I remember, and wait 15 years till he reachs the age of majority, THEN kill him.

 

Vitus is not very merciful with evil magic-users. A Mage War was one of the causes of his home universe's devestating dimensional instability.

[OddHat]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Style - If exorcism is absolutely impossible, he'd pull out the combination Demon/Child soul and see if they could be split outside of the body. If not, he'd erase the Demon's mind and memories entirely, bind the combined spirit to prevent further demonic influence and corruption as much as possible, and turn over the child to the Council to be raised and trained as a mage. He'd know that there was always a chance that the Demon's memories would return, but a lifetime of mental discipline and positive life experience would put the then adult in a good position to try to deal with his demonic half.

 

The GM could nerf that and railroad things to the kill the child scenario, but then the GM can nerf anything.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Exorcism is impossible. That doesn't disallow certain other approaches.

 

However, before answering....

 

Does the child have a soul of its own, or are we talking a Rosemary's Baby/The Omen scenario, where the kid is merely the vessel of the demon?

[Teflon Billy]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Exorcism is impossible. That doesn't disallow certain other approaches.

 

However, before answering....

 

Does the child have a soul of its own, or are we talking a Rosemary's Baby/The Omen scenario, where the kid is merely the vessel of the demon?

I'm thinking that to drive the moral conundrum that the innocent soul is still in there, just it has been irrecovably mixed and subsumed by the Demon's soul and will.

 

TB --If the kid caused someone's death, then so shall it be for him. So sad.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Come on now, you just wanted to use your avatar in a thread.

 

 

Many of my characters are the "I don't believe in the no win scenerio" types, and have resources that are beyond normal PCs so.......

 

Blackcat would find a way to negate the powers, and after normal fixes fail, take the child to one of the really high powered people she knows off dimension - One is a walking 500+ cosmic power pool. She would find away to get the child fixed, even if it meant finding a way to heaven and convincing God himself to do it. She was possessed herself, and so it would be personal.

 

Ballistic would likely kill the thing - after exhausting all other possibilities. It isn't a child anymore, and he has an enraged when innoncence is corrupted. And he'd find away to bind the sould of the demon, and make sure it pays for what it did to the child by pain for a little extra time.

 

Angelfire would find a way to mindwipe the demonchild. Maybe raise it herself. As she is half Demon/half angel she would lean towards the "let's let it live it's life camp"

 

Terminal Velocity would go into vapor lock. He could never kill a child even one like this, but he is powerless to get it to stop doing what it is doing. - Those reading the WWYCD thread can probably guess, TV is not the most decisive character in the world when it comes to moral quandries.

 

Sift would take it to her boyfriend (the archmage of the planet - really expensive contact) with this suggestion - duplicate the baby - one side with all the pure and innocence of the child, the other with the demon (as it isn't an exorcism- the demon is still bonded to the child physically), then kill the demon. As Sif is a super that is bonded to people (a la Firestorm) that would come to mind rather easily.

 

Meeb has sort of played through this, but the extreme excorcism worked. He's do everything he could for the kid, but if there were no other options, kill him.

[Lethosos]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Pretty much all but one of my characters would try to get an unorthodox solution performed--bind a willing angel to the kid. Who knows what might happen?

 

Khronos (a new one I'm working on for a local game!) was a god himself, but he can still do a little work on his own... He'll try and isolate--or at least suppress--the demonic portion into a more-or-less corpreal form using what he recalls of his small magics. Given that it's bound to the kid's soul, it may prove far more difficult than he is capable--but as long as there's a way to do that, he can then just chuck it through his Doorway Into Time power and shoot it out in, oh, another millenia or so. Given that he lost most of his powers through being chrono-locked within his own Doorway, this will be far more effective.

[Sundog]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Terminus would place his Retributor Pistol to the kid's head and pull the trigger. He's seen evil with a beautiful face before.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

M'kay - still in there, then.

 

The Protectors (Void, Heat Wave, Darkchild, and Huntress - they'd handle this as a team).

 

Stage 1 is to summon the demon from the child, do their best to get them separated. Assuming that doesn't work, as it's under the exorcism approach:

 

Stage 2 is to go *into* the child's mind/body/soul, and *remove the demon by force*. Get in there, right up there with the demon's soul, and take it out from the astral plane. Presumably, this is possible. If it is not....

 

Stage 3: Take advantage of the fact that he's put himself into a human body. By doing so, he makes himself vulnerable to binding, even if exorcism is beyond them. Bind the demonsoul for the next 13 years; spend these years teaching the child to control his powers. They have just created the next dark superhero.

 

Stage 4 (though really, getting this far is more than a little tricky, as it would require the demon being able to beat down the combined spiritual firepower of several demon-slaying deities from multiple pantheons): Bind the demon's powers, even if not its soul, via any of a number of methods. Spend the next several years trying to work this problem out (mostly through repeats of Stage 1-3).

 

Stage 5: Darkchild contacts the assorted spiritual beings in charge to ensure that the kid's first in queue for proper reincarnation, without the demon going along. The child is an innocent and, at best, will end up in a paradisical afterlife, at worst, have no karmic backlash via reincarnation. Sending him along is acceptable as an order-of-last-resort.

[Zed-F]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Soulbarb is back in an iron age world, since lots of people are dying that are close to her, and this will generally cause her to abandon whatever restraint she might be inclined to show in more bronze-silver worlds. She will examine the demonchild's soul first off to see how much, if any, of the child's soul is still there. Odds are, none. In that case, figure out how the demon was able to return last time, and gank the demon by whatever means possible to ensure it will not return again. This is not one of those 'live-and-let-live' scenarios as far as she's concerned -- and she's bonded to a demon herself, so she's inclined to be lenient if anyone is. This demon has already proved how dangerous and evil it is many times over. It will not be allowed the opportunity to do so again.

 

In a less iron age world where the demon is not killing off significant NPCs to bring Soulbarb to the point of vendetta, and where the child's soul is still present in some fashion, Soulbarb's uniquely qualified to help mentor the child as it grows up. She would still try to exercise her contacts to see if she can get ahold of anyone who can separate the demon from the child's soul, but this will likely prove fruitless. She is not ready to raise the child herself, but would probably start to visit regularily and become a sort of big-sister-type role model. As Soulbarb herself still has challenges when it comes to choosing between the pragmatic or expedient course and the moral course of action, this will also be an opportunity for her own growth as a person. Either that, or very dangerous.

 

Sylph is a silver age character and doesn't belong in a game where people she cares about are getting waxed off-handedly. She wouldn't have killed the Demon in the first place but would instead have tried to find some way to bind him. In this instance, she will likely try to do so again. She's not really an expert mystic herself, but Dionysus could certainly give her a few nudges in the right direction if he were so inclined.

[David Johnston]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Poet would figure a plot device to send himself and a force of angry ghosts into the child, and then pound the demon into such a state of negative Stun, that it will take years to wake up again. That'll give the kid some time to grow up and become the dominant personality. He'll get a dead relative of the kid to watch him for relapses and pay regular check-up visits to the kid's interior. Eventually he'll try to "train" the kid.

 

Hellfire would do nothing except pass the problem onto the worlds most powerful psychics and "sorcerers". Despite her name she's totally unqualified to deal with a problem of this nature and knows it.

 

Wizard will come up with a gizmo to erase the kid's foreign memories. He doesn't believe in immortal souls so as far he's concerned, the problem is just a bad memory download. Erase the foreign memories, and the problem is solved.

 

Tien Lung would try to teach the sorcerer the Way right up until the sorcerer kills him. The futility of violence has already been demonstrated, after all.

[Powerhouse]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

With respect, I'm not a big fan of no-win situations. Furthermore, the idea that a demon could bond irrevocably with an innocent child violates any sense of cosmic justice in my mind. Whether through powerful magic, true faith, or the will of God, there is always a way to banish evil and save the innocent.

 

 

Maybe that's just me.

[Kristopher]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Yeah, I have to go with those questioning yet another WWYCD thread designed to force an artificial moral dilema.

[DEFCON Clown]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

This happended in an FTF game I play in. I posted it here since I was curious how Herodom assembled would handle it.

 

We handled it like this. Since none of us wanted to kill the kid we kept him in an induced coma (after a tough battle) for several weeks while we searched for a way to seperate the two. A couple of games later one of the other players thought of an idea. We couldn't pull the demon out of the kid because he was so well bonded to the child so we pulled the the child's soul out of its body, temporarily transfering it into our base's cleaning robot. Our plan had been to then get a priest to preform an exorcism since the demon was no longer attached to the child's soul.

 

Unfortunately since the demon was no longer bound to the child, it was now merely residing in the child's body, it wasn't affected by the drugs that had been keeping it unconcious. So we had a big huge fight, the four of us fighting what appeared to be a 3 year old. Eventually (3 turns later) we managed to knock it out well below -30 and we rushed the priest in.

 

Our GM said he was surprised that none of us ever suggested killing the kid.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Exsorcism is impossible as he is bonded to the child's soul.

 

We couldn't pull the demon out of the kid because he was so well bonded to the child so we pulled the the child's soul out of its body' date=' temporarily transfering it into our base's cleaning robot. Our plan had been to then get a priest to preform an exorcism since the demon was no longer attached to the child's soul.[/quote']

 

You're telling me the bonding was so tight that an EXSORCISM would fail, but you could pull the child's soul out of the body and leave the "bonded" demon behind?

 

Sorry... NOT buying it.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

You're telling me the bonding was so tight that an EXSORCISM would fail, but you could pull the child's soul out of the body and leave the "bonded" demon behind?

 

Sorry... NOT buying it.

Well, I could actually see it, myself. The child's soul has a weak enough grip on the body that it can be removed and stored elsewhere, kinda like exorcising the child. Then deal with demon soul, replace child soul, problem solved.

[David Johnston]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Well' date=' I could actually see it, myself. The child's soul has a weak enough grip on the body that it can be removed and stored elsewhere, kinda like exorcising the child. Then deal with demon soul, replace child soul, problem solved.[/quote']

 

Yes, but that's not what was described. I just let it slide and assumed, as the players in the FTF game, did that exorcism because of GM edict just won't work to dislodge the lodger.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Yes' date=' but that's not what was described. I just let it slide and assumed, as the players in the FTF game, did that exorcism because of GM edict just won't work to dislodge the lodger.[/quote']

Agreed. I'm just saying that I can see a perfectly logical explanation for it, that's all. It's actually reasonably close to a couple of the solutions I suggested (going in and taking on the demon, that sort of thing), I think.

[wagnern]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Nadia: If you can't force them appart, then perhaps melding them even more together is the answer. Make them truly one person. Perhaps by doing this you can wipe the slate clean and allow him to make a new start. And if you can influence it to give what was origionaly the child the controlling shares and a good upbringing he may have a chance.

 

But if in the spirit of WWYCD threads life is a multable choice test, the death would be required, but it must be done is a way to remove all interference, so as to allow the univers to handle the disposition of the souls correctly. (no spells or effects to allow Mr evil sorceror to return or anything hokie like that. Go to hell, do not pass go, do not collecto 200 dollars, thankyou for playing.)

[Amused]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Gwendolyn- Would not allow anyone to touch the child in a malevolent manner. It would take alot of convincing that s/he was evil, (she's protective of children and once she decides you're good(or bad) it takes an ego roll to change that once she has been giving a reason to think differently).

This would probably be used to the evil dudes advantadge, playing up the good kid for her to keep him protected.

 

All in all it would probably be up to the rest of the team to figure it out and deal with her.

[prodigyduck]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

I'm sorry, but being able to pull the kid out of his own body but not the demon... that is a bad call.

 

In all known mythos that I am aware of, possessing demons can only share bodies with mortals, thay cannot become permanently bound. Exorcisms should work. If the GM set up that case where this would not work, he was being a peen and wanting your heroes to go into the grey, angst-ie phase of killing a child. (my opinion)

 

Get a new ref.

[nexus]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

Well, its the gms world. He or she isn't bound by the how "real" magic is supposed to work anymore than he/she is bound by real physics.

 

In event. Tao would favor killing the child. Its the most expedient solution but she would leave the final descion the matter to her superiors given that her knowledge of such things was limits.

 

Shidoku would probably angonize over it but in the end to what was called for and just consider it another black mark on her soul.

 

Eve would be terrified and basically lock up and Ivy is far to protective of children in general so at worst she was use her medical skills to pacify/drug the child until something (she's not sure what) could be done.

[David Blue]

Re: WWYCD: Evil in Innocence

 

For the last two years your hero and the team he or she is a member, of if they are in a team, have been fighting a Demon sorcerer. In the process many people have died including several people very close to you. Finally you manage to defeat the Demon and as he lays dying he casts one last spell. Then he dies.

 

Three months later you're attacked by his Wraiths. You know this means he's back as his Wraiths are a physical manifestation of his malvolence. You track him down and find that he is now inside the body of a three year old child. Exsorcism is impossible as he is bonded to the child's soul.

What do you do?

Chain Lightning will neither kill the child nor permit him or her to be killed. First, that's completely unacceptable. Second, as Chain Lightning understands his duty, it's his job to keep trying to defeat demonic magic, with or without hope. Third, if "bonding" is potentially breakable the problem is potentially soluble, and if it isn't it's just a matter of time till this is a routine tactic for demons. Not every demon-haunted soul is going to be killed. So giving up in this case implies giving up in what may become the general case. Chain Lightning won't give up.

 

Orgone Man will try to build an orgone-powered magic-proof cell.

 

Thunder will go along with what the magic or weird stuff experts say.

 

Last Hero will consult the experts, weigh danger of the sorcerer to the last Korbenite egg against the legal and other risks of killing the human child, and likely make a quick, ruthless decision.