Vast Underground

[assault]

Re: Vast Underground

 

http://turkey.rdricketts.com/uncity.html

http://www.allenvarney.com/av_turkey.html

http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magazine/articles/turkey/turkey.html

[OddHat]

Re: Vast Underground

 

http://turkey.rdricketts.com/uncity.html

http://www.allenvarney.com/av_turkey.html

http://www.xpeditionsmagazine.com/magazine/articles/turkey/turkey.html

 

Very cool.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vast Underground

 

I'd hate to see you wait that long. Here is a map. Just add monsters and treasure.

 

Keith "The Palindromedary's friend" Curtis

 

 

Nice! And its ideal for simulating the Biggest Damn Dungeon Ever. Just start on page 1 of the Monster Manual, and work thru it alphabetically until you run out of monsters, then grab another monster manual and repeat until all the PCs are dead or all the players have given up in disgust.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vast Underground

 

I could never figure out why some king or whatever didn't just assemble an army and ransack the Tomb of Horrors. It wouldn't be that hard if you don't mind sacrificing a bunch of peasants.

 

I recall hearing a tale that Lord Robilar beat the Tomb of Horrors in just such a fasion -- except he used an army of Goblins or Orcs for his cannonfodder.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Nice! And its ideal for simulating the Biggest Damn Dungeon Ever. Just start on page 1 of the Monster Manual' date=' and work thru it alphabetically until you run out of monsters, then grab another monster manual and repeat until all the PCs are dead or all the players have given up in disgust.[/quote']

Don't forget room descriptions.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Don't recognise the reference - but then it I never thought it was a terribly *original* idea As I said, it's kind of a homage to the days when I ran my game using D and D, since it was the very first dungeon I ever ran, back in 1980, when I was still trying to wrap my mind around the idea of why there would *be* dungeons.

 

After a while it got the reputation among my players of being simply too dangerous. They all set off for overland adventures and it's basically lain unused ever since...

 

cheers, Mark

 

Lyzandred "the Mad" is a character from the Greyhawk setting. Basically as memory serves he started off as a good wizard and started collecting magic items that he deemed too dangerous to be in the hands of mere mortals, and stored them in a demi-plane he had discovered where he also lived.

 

I forget all the twists and turns, but the basic idea is living in the demi-plane eventually drove him mad, he eventually died and becamed a (IIRC Lawful Neutral) lich, he eventually hit on the idea of luring adventurers to his plane to test them for their worthiness.

 

If they couldnt survive the "tests" set for them they died and he took their magic items and seeded the dungeon as further bait for new adventurers. If they did survive they were rewarded with some item(s) and released.

 

There were some advantages to the CONCEPT of the Crypt of Lyzandred that made it easy to incorporate -- it was a demiplane and not tied to a specific geographical location, so it could be introduced pretty much anywhere whenever a GM wanted to use it. Also, since the intention wasnt really to "beat" the dungeon and slay Lyzandred, but rather just to survive it more along the lines of a gauntlet, a GM could tailor the threat level and rewards appropriate to pretty much any PC group, regardless of their level or the contents of the actual printed adventure.

 

I found the underlying concept to be very useful, and used it on a couple of occasions (and would use it again were I to run a Greyhawk campaign). However I chucked the map and instead used dungeon tiles (at the time taken from Warhammer Quest and other sources, but now-a-days I would get some of the new general purpose Dungeon tiles being published as seperate products).

 

The gimmick was for each tile I conjectured a puzzle, test, trap, challenge, or what have you appropriate to the graphics on that tile. Further, the dungeon was not a linear physical structure; each room would have one or more randomized exit portals through which you couldnt see, and when you went thru one you went to a random other room. The target of the portal also reset every 5 minutes or so, thus if a "scout" went thru they a) had no direct way to communicate back and if the rest of the group tarried too long they'd end up going to some other room. Teleport spells worked after a fashion, but if one attempted to teleport out of a room they just ended up in another random room. Planeshift would work to leave the demiplane and thus the dungeon in theory, but the caster would need to somehow overcome a powerful blocking spell laid down by Lyzandred.

 

The PCs could skip from room to room as they liked, but never knew what they would be getting in to. Many of the rooms were passive, and in fact in some cases it wasnt even obvious what the challenge of the room was, so PC's could skip around semi-safely, but other rooms presented triggered traps or direct and immediate threats.

 

In some cases the PC's also got split up which also added a level of dramatic tension as the group tried to reconstitute.

 

Once the group solved a challenge, the room was removed from the randomizer. Eventually if the PC's passed all of the tests, they would be provided with a door that lead out; as each passed thru the portal the were delivered to a seperate room from one another where on a beir rested some magic item or in rarer cases more esoteric reward particularly suitable for them in direct relation to how much they contributed to passing the various tests.

 

PC's that were particularly key to passing the tests (if any, and often only one) were granted an audience with Lyzandred, who asked them some seemingly disjointed questions (he is mad, you know), but which had an overriding purpose. If he liked the cut of the PC's jib so to speak (they roleplayed the audience well), he would grant them some words of insane wisdom TM (which translated into a INT or EGO raise), and grant them a token that if used would allow them to find another entrance to the Crypt to be tested again in future should they wish to test their mettle once more; conjoined with the warning that the next time it will be much harder of course.

 

The only realy challenge was that some PC's didnt survive it of course and its a "closed" setting making it potentially awkward to introduce new PC's. One group was powerful enough and had a cleric that could resurrect, so it wasnt catastrophic, but the other group wasnt as fortunate. However, this was easily overcome by having the surviving members stumble into a room where they encountered a surviving member(s) of another adventuring group whom they soon agreed to combine forces with, thus introducing new PC's.

 

 

Anyway, Im leaving a lot out, but it was a very successful endeavor on the two occasions I employed it. The players were extremely engaged, and it formed a real milestone in the careers of their characters and the campaign as it progressed. One player in particular who had a very positive audience w/ Lyzandred made it a defining element of his character's roleplaying going forward.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Don't forget room descriptions.

 

It's, ah, a room. Square. Four walls, 25 feet to a side, 25 foot ceilings, stairwell up on one side, down on the other.

 

"Lets get it on!".

 

{initiative dice cascade to the table}

 

 

"Natural 20 babeee"

 

"Nice!"

 

"Man, you SUCK! That die has got to be loaded..."

 

etc....

[Vestnik]

Re: Vast Underground

 

I recall hearing a tale that Lord Robilar beat the Tomb of Horrors in just such a fasion -- except he used an army of Goblins or Orcs for his cannonfodder.

 

Better yet, don't even bother going inside it -- get some sappers, and just excavate the thing from the top down. Dig the thing up.

[teh bunneh]

Re: Vast Underground

 

One team I knew of drove a large herd of goats through it. The ungulants set off about 70% of the traps. The only thing the party needed to do was find the secret doors.

 

Bill.

(Plus: Yummy goatmeat for dinner every night!)

[keithcurtis]

Re: Vast Underground

 

If they couldnt survive the "tests" set for them they died and he took their magic items and seeded the dungeon as further bait for new adventurers. If they did survive they were rewarded with some item(s) and released.

 

So, he turned it into Las Vegas.

 

Keith "Vegas has a catch-and-release program..." Curtis

[Curufea]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Incidently, I was thinking a couple of days ago about creating large dungeons. I started writing up some information on how to design a dungeon. It is nothing compared to this which is amazing but part of it does assist the situation.

 

Questions to answer before you begin the dungeon design:

Who created it?

Knowing who created the dungeon helps shape it. Was it a paranoid wizard? Was it a clan of goblins? The design of the dungeon will reflect the personality of its creator.

 

Why was it created?

The biggest flaw with dungeons is there is no reason for them. They are just there. Ask yourself why it was created. Was it crafted to hide a secret lab at its deepest level? Was it a complex path to the surface world? Was it designed to provide a place for the residents to hide from the outside world?

 

How was it created?

This helps best with doing room descriptions and designing the physical map. Were the rooms natural? Were they crafted by magic? Were they dug by dwarves? Knowing how the rooms were made helps provide texture to the dungeon.

 

When were they created?

Is the dungeon new? Is it ancient? This also helps with designing the map and the room descriptions. Older dungeons might have marks of previous battles on the walls. Sections of the dungeon may have collapsed long ago. Bodies of victims will be nothing more that skeletons. Doors may be rotting and falling apart. Newer dungeons may have unfinished sections with piles of fresh rock and mining equipment. Rooms may be nearly perfect with brand new doors and unrusted hinges.

 

What is the history of the dungeon?

Have there been any major battles in the dungeon before? Have any adventures gone down into the dungeon in the past? Were there any fires or magical explosions in the dungeon? Did the lands ever flood after the dungeon was first created?

 

 

 

That's all I had really.

 

 

Most of these questions are also posed in the Central Casting book about dungeon design - quite a useful read for this kind of thing.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vast Underground

 

So, he turned it into Las Vegas.

 

Keith "Vegas has a catch-and-release program..." Curtis

 

Minus all the hot women of loose morals and buffets, I suppose.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Vast Underground

 

One of the original D&D or AD&D books had a random dungeon generator. One of the groups I had gamed with for a while liked to run random dungeons when no one wanted to GM. They talk about one stretch of dungeon that kept generating pit traps with Hydras in them. They also once generated a 10' by 10' room with a Ancient Red Dragon inside.

[keithcurtis]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Minus all the hot women of loose morals and buffets' date=' I suppose.[/quote']

Everyone goes through that phase of gaming, too.

 

Keith "In some groups, the buffet remains a constant" Curtis

[Curufea]

Re: Vast Underground

 

One of the original D&D or AD&D books had a random dungeon generator. One of the groups I had gamed with for a while liked to run random dungeons when no one wanted to GM. They talk about one stretch of dungeon that kept generating pit traps with Hydras in them. They also once generated a 10' by 10' room with a Ancient Red Dragon inside.

 

There are MANY random generators on the internet - quite a few are worth looking at.

 

But I like Marcdoc's idea of a cataclysm forcing folk to live underground - it's the kind of justification I could agree with.

[Super Squirrel]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Funny you should mention that, I was working on an idea for something very similar to that.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Everyone goes through that phase of gaming, too.

 

Keith "In some groups, the buffet remains a constant" Curtis

 

im still in that phase, but have yet to find a good forum for it

[Susano]

Re: Vast Underground

 

The book Tour of the Universe presents the idea of a dungeon as large as an entire world. The place is called "Tombworld" and it's just that -- a planet used to bury various space-faring races for millennia. In a fantasy setting, one could convert it to an island or some such, but the end result is a location covered in tombs, crypts, dungeons, graves, and what not. If built around a mountain (or island), one could see the mountain honeycombed with passages, with additional structures built on top. Over time (especially if the entire location has been abandoned), parts may have collapsed in on itself, the restless dead may have arisen once their rest was disturbed, necromancers may have used it to create various undead, traps and spells may have killed the unwary and/or created new guardians, animals may have moved into partially open tombs and crypts, and tomb robbers may have broken into parts.

 

Going off certain Egyptian burial practices, you have a ready reason for physical traps, magical traps, monsters, piles of treasure, and complex underground tunnel systems.

 

Enjoy!

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Don't forget room descriptions.

 

You find yourself in a (sound of tape measure retracting) 17' by 21' room. The air smells of damp mold with the slightly smell of cinnamon mixed in. You hear the sound of water off in the distance (sound of a water dripping). The east wall is covered with strange markings of a forgotten language. Light streams in from the west wall from an outknown source, providing just enough light to annoy both those that can see normally in the dark and surface-dwellers.

 

The floor slants downwards towards the south where 8 orcs appear to be bored out of their minds, obviously, they've heard this description many timers before...

[OddHat]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Don't forget Philip Jose Farmer's "The Dungeon" anthologies, another entire world designed as a D&D style dungeon in order to serve as both a prison and a center for odd experiments by an extra-dimensional race. Interesting setting, and with plenty of space for an almost traditional party going from room to room killing, looting, and looking for a way out.

[Curufea]

Re: Vast Underground

 

If it were in a Pulp setting - it would have similarities with Dark City.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Vast Underground

 

Make it the "Ultimate Dungeon"; use Keith's map and simply fill each room with four cages and prisoners, most dead, none having anything even remotely resembleing treasure. There are no monsters either.

Just jails.

[Lucius]

Vast Underground

 

I'd hate to see you wait that long. Here is a map. Just add monsters and treasure.

 

Keith "The Palindromedary's friend" Curtis

 

 

Gee thanks! I’ll go through and distribute 59 Gold Pieces and 59 Giant Rats!

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And 1 Palindromedary

[Steve]

Re: Vast Underground

 

And 1 Palindromedary

 

The most feared beast in all the world.

[Cantriped]

Re: Vast Underground

 

I'd like to craft a dungeon in the theme of those found in the game Dungeon Keeper.

The whole premis being that you played as a sinister being bound within a stone known as a Keeper, and you terrorized the land by constructing massive dungeons and marsheling a dark host of monsters into your employ. Then the heros and the Lord of hte Land would come to clense you from their lands, die a horible death within the deathtrap you'd crafted. After that your free pillage your metaphorical 'little black heart' out.