Grimble Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I'm about to introduce my PCs to their evil counterparts from an alternate Earth. This being a standard comic book trope, I want to hear how you have done this to the super teams you run for. Be it evil clones, invaders from an alternate dimension, or whatever. Also, WHY did you put your group against themselves? I'm doing it because they haven't quite been working as a team. I want to show them what they could do if they coordinated with one another in combat. I also think it will be fun and really cool! What were your reasons? Grimble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Jogger Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts I did it to show how one superhero could easily become a twisted supervillian. He was a mentalist and the supervillian version developed Extra-dimensional travel instead of teleportation. When he discovered an entire multiverse filled with every possible variation, he went mad and attempted to bring the multiverse into order. This version was called Crystal Master. I used it to show that the hyperactive fun-loving hero version (named Beast) was much more heroic than the methodical Vincent who cared nothing of human life (as opposed to just being hyperactive and causing lots of mayhem and property destruction). In other words, it was a great way to show the heroes their strengths and weaknesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts I've done it a few times ... and I've let my players play their darksides a few times as well I mostly do it because it's a staple of the genre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts I wanted to see what the characters would look like with beards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts When I did it, it wasn't really an "Evil Twin" thing, they actually fought themselves from a different time. Very long story short, they were tricked in to doing something for a very powerful demon (one character was a Teen Titans Raven clone w/Demon father) at the start of the adventure they were attacked by people that had powers remarkably simialr to theirs. They defeated them but they all disappeared. Later they learned they were tricked and turned the world into a flaming pit of hell (you should have seen the look on their faces when I ended the session after telling them the whole Earth was run by demons, and had an old man run up to them, yelling "What have you done?!") The old man, as it turns out, what the former Sorcerer Supreme of Earth, and explained to them what happened. He tells them he has to send them back in time to stop themselves from helping the demon. If the Demon finds out the Sorcerer did this, the demon will put magic blocks in place and all will be for nothing, so they have to go back and pretend to be other than what they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wylodmayer Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts We did this in my Four-Color Campaign, and it was actually kind of the idea of one of my players. His first character, Banshee, mentioned in other threads on these boards, turned out to be a woman-abusing drug-user and a reckless, irresponsible hero to boot (he was the son of two deceased but beloved heroes from the previous generation, and had issues). So after he left, the player's replacement character, a teenage girl superscientist showed up from an alternate dimension. Well, what she hadn't told anyone was that she was the daughter of Banshee in that dimenison, which seemed to be about a dozen or so years ahead of this timeline. In that world, Banshee was a pretty level headed guy, but after losing his wife to a villain, became a little overzealous about enforcing peace and order. Things degenerated between the members of the team and they each wound up carving out a piece of the world to rule. The coolest part was that the resistance to their despotic rule was a group made up of the HEROIC versions of the game's prominent villains; when the PCs wound up going back to this dimension with Creatrix, the girl superscientist, to "set a few things right" (and to drop her back at home, since her presence in their dimension was disrupting reality), they had to get help from the group in question. It was so cool to watch them deal with the good-guy versions of their villains. The reason was just for, well, coolness and to say we did it - it's a cliche from the genre, and we wanted to do as many of those as possible. Plus, it was fun. I wasn't trying to make any major philosophical point, but the "road not taken" dynamic was kind of fun. Plus, we got some major plot developments out of it. * Ms Mercury, the sister of Mr Mercury III had become the wielder of the Helm of Mercury when her brother died, in our world at least, but in the counterpart world, he was still alive, and the two had to go at it. He was better at using the powers, but she was smarter and an occultist to boot, and eventually beat him by summoning the gods to take back the artifacts - all of them! She retired after that, but what a way to go out. * We got major foreshadowing on Myst's eventual transformation into the power mad Nocturna, which was her identity in the counterpart world. and * We got to see further into Banshee's psyche and the scars he carried with him over losing his parents so young, setting up the character's eventual redemption and return in the main continuity. It was neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts It's a staple of dimenstion hopping, I do it often, mostly as a fun bash up, where I need do very little as the write ups are provided by the playas..... And heros can beat up their teamates without long term issues (usually) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Since no one else has 'fessed up yet... I've done it not only because it's a classic trope, yadda, yadda, yadda... but also, at least a couple of times, I've done it because I didn't have other villains ready to run, and doing the "evil twin" thing provided me with write-ups (the PCs' own character sheets!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Since no one else has 'fessed up yet... I've done it not only because it's a classic trope, yadda, yadda, yadda... but also, at least a couple of times, I've done it because I didn't have other villains ready to run, and doing the "evil twin" thing provided me with write-ups (the PCs' own character sheets!). Hey! I just did fess up!... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts It's a standard trope. It's fun. You don't need to design new characters. It works equally well if you have interdimensional evil counterparts or if you have Black Adam/Sinestro types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimble Posted March 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Thanks for your responses,folks. I hit my group with their counterparts from another Earth yesterday evening. I'd say it went well. I can't say exactly why the alternates invaded their dimension (because I have players who check in here). The home team "won" today, but most of the "evil" counterparts got away. Now the alternate group who got away (with a few cool objects from the heroes trophy room) haqve actually called their base to talk about getting their freinds back...oh, and to threaten to nuke their base if they don't. The alternate James Bond is threatening this world's James Bond with a nuclear bomb explosion "near" their base (also near Chicago) if their freinds are not released. That is where we left off this session. I'll Let you know what happens. Grimble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrestlinggeek Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts I've done it, for all the reasons listed above (it's fun, it's a genre staple, it doesn't require new villains, etc.). Some versions I've used include evil duplicates from another universe, clones created by the master villain, the team turns evil in the future, and new villains given the same powers and abilities. Another fun and easy genre staple to use is the one villain who duplicates all the team's powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Hey! I just did fess up!...Sorry! I started my post, then got distracted and came back to it a few minutes later. I think you posted during that time, so I didn't see yours before posting mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Sorry! I started my post' date=' then got distracted and came back to it a few minutes later. I think you posted during that time, so I didn't see yours before posting mine. [/quote'] Internet is horrible for us A.D.D. folks isn't? I go to my computer with a specific mission, nest thing I know I'm saying "Oh look a shiney!" and spend the next 5 hours doing nothing I was there to do, by the time I realize I'm not doing my mission I've forgotten what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Internet is horrible for us A.D.D. folks isn't? I go to my computer with a specific mission' date=' nest thing I know I'm saying "Oh look a shiney!" and spend the next 5 hours doing nothing I was there to do, by the time I realize I'm not doing my mission I've forgotten what it was.[/quote']Amen, brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Since no one else has 'fessed up yet... I've done it not only because it's a classic trope, yadda, yadda, yadda... but also, at least a couple of times, I've done it because I didn't have other villains ready to run, and doing the "evil twin" thing provided me with write-ups (the PCs' own character sheets!). TRADITION! Without our traditions our lives would be as shaky as, as... as a fiddler on the roof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alverant Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts When I joined a new campaign I made a character named Divine Wind. He is a 3rd generation Japanese-American and a slacker college student to boot. The ghost of his samauri ancestor granted him powers and gives him advice so he can be a hero and get his life in gear. The first adventure the group gets sent to Nazi World where counter-part is known as Kamikaze. The irony is none of this was planned. So during his two trips to Nazi World, my character made life a living hell for his evil self by committing acts of treason against the 3rd Reich and letting his other self take the blame. They haven't met yet, thank goodness. Hopefully the GM won't read this and get some ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transmetahuman Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts When I joined a new campaign I made a character named Divine Wind. He is a 3rd generation Japanese-American and a slacker college student to boot. The ghost of his samauri ancestor granted him powers and gives him advice so he can be a hero and get his life in gear. The first adventure the group gets sent to Nazi World where counter-part is known as Kamikaze. The irony is none of this was planned. So during his two trips to Nazi World' date=' my character made life a living hell for his evil self by committing acts of treason against the 3rd Reich and letting his other self take the blame. They haven't met yet, thank goodness. Hopefully the GM won't read this and get some ideas.[/quote'] Haha, awesome to see an example of the hero using Evil Twin tricks! I've never heard of anyone having the presence of mind to do that in a BackWorld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alverant Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Haha' date=' awesome to see an example of the hero using Evil Twin tricks! I've never heard of anyone having the presence of mind to do that in a BackWorld.[/quote'] I blame the GM for that a little. DW has unluck (the spirit world disapproves of the ghost of his ancestor intruding on the living world). The first time it came up, DW was approached by a Nazi who thought he was his counter part. I had to lay it on thick, making promises I had no intention of keeping. Things started snowballing from there. During the second trip DW encountered the same Nazi. "I thought you were in prison!" he shouted. DW could only laugh evilly. Earlier I realized the best way to never encounter my Nazi counterpart was to throw him in jail or in front of the firing squad. Hey, they're Nazis, who cares?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KA. Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts My favorite memory of this sort of scenario happened when I had a group that went on a long hiatus. Just before the hiatus I was working on having the group gain a government sponsor. They had already been recruited and were in the process of setting up a new headquarters. Then, real life intruded and we took a lengthy break. When we began playing again, everyone wanted to create new characters. After a couple of adventures, the group was contacted by another government liason. They were asked to try and take down a group of fanatical super-terrorists that were threatening the stability of the entire country. I'm sure that, based on the topic, everyone sees where this is going, but the players were totally flabbergasted to realize that the 'super terrorists' were their former characters. This may seem like a fairly nasty trick, but at the time the original campaign ended I had been thinking about the fact that they had not asked for any sort of credentials from the 'government agent' that wanted to sponsor them. Neither did the do any research on the 'agency' they were joining. So, since the characters had been 'dormant' for months, I just applied the usual, comic book style, 'worst case scenario'. Once the players got over the initial shock, they had a blast taking on the characters they had designed months ago. KA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts I should probably try 'running' an evil duplicate scenario one of these days, just cuz I've had enough fun being caught on the player side of it, but the closest I ever did was send the PCs to an alternate history where at least versions of some of the people (and in one case, one of the PCs) existed... My primary objective in this scenario was to bring a new char into the group -- nothing quite fosters a desire for cooperation like hijacking a char into a strange alternate world with no one but his fellow hijack-ies for support (though I suppose being a teenaged boy in the company of two teenaged girls probably gave him all of the motivation he needed...) Still, I don't think Gale will ever quite forget Stormwing, even if she technically wasn't 'evil'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tech Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts Yes, I've done this. Why? Because it's fun and the GM can sit back and let the players run the 'villains'. Aliens from another planet made exact physical copies of the heroes and attacked them. As GM, I sat back and had them do the entire battle because I had the players run their own duplicates. It's rare that the players stay busy while the GM has free time during an episode. I could've watched a movie while they beat their evil duplicates up.. .. but I stayed for a few reasons, if only to watch them beat themselves up. Yes, the good guys won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts In a similar vein to K.A., I had my players' *prior* characters' alternate versions face off against their *current* heroes. (This was about three campaigns ago. When I start a new campaign with new characters, the new game world is usually an alternate dimension from the prior campaign, so even the heroes they played before are from a different dimesion now.) To keep you things straight, the earlier hero team was THEM (The Heroes of Eastern Michigan). Their evil counterparts were also THEM (The Hedonistic Enslavers of Mankind), so I'll call them Evil-THEM here. The then-current hero team was Silver Phoenix. Silver Phoenix was contacted by Dark Shadow, a member of THEM, who told them that Evil-THEM had taken refuge on Silver Phoenix's world. Well, all except his counterpart Night Prowler, whom THEM had captured. Dark Shadow asked for Silver Phoenix's help in tracking down Evil-THEM. (I enlisted DS's player in running him at the time.) Vigilance and DS went to sneak into Evil-THEM's new base of operations... and into a trap. Yes, DS was actually Night Prowler, and the player did a wonderful job of suckering the other players. Of course, the heroes won the day, but it was a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow_walker Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts The last time I had a character who fought his alternate self was few issues after the reality storm scenario. Him and his team were trying to return to there own reality after fleeing "Nazi World", only to end up in a "Reverse World". Anyway shadow hawk (1.0) was a martial art vigilante who became a hero after his girlfriend was killed by a mugger who he failed to stop. Blood hawk on the other hand was a psychotic killer who stalk and murdered his girlfriend. Regardless when they meet is was a slug fest, ending when shadow hawk (1.0) knock out blood hawk and drove his knife threw his throat. He keep is mask as both a trophy and a reminder of who he can never let himself become. Interesting part was that shadow hawk (1.0) was a fighter type , why blood hawk was stalker type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BcAugust Posted March 21, 2007 Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 Re: Evil Counterparts While none of my players have met their evil duplicates yet(Was setting it up just before game went on hiatus), several of the groups I've played in have done such. For New Sentinels, it was just a mental exercise "Mirror Sentinels", which was actually closest to a Justice Lords idea. Less evil then facing a twisted versions of each of our ideals. For Aegis(From which I'm playing a more mature version of Nox later this week), we ran into a more experienced evil Nox, which got trashed by our team, but was a valid threat. More then that, it let us know there was a problem with Nox, which would have been a fun storyline if the game hadn't gotten canceled. Ancient Aberrant: We haven't run into such, even though we've certainly ran into characters that have "evil" aspects of ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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