Worst. Hero. Ever.

[jkwleisemann]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Darnit, beat me to the punch there, Transmetahuman.

 

Though, that said, legend has it that Royals were among those complaining... and he *did* only do it once, so that still puts him ahead of Goku and the Amazing Revolving Door of Death.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Anecdote number 2: My two room mates and I are hanging out in Harry's store. We are in the middle of a conversation about whats good and whats bad on TV, when the subject of DBZ comes up. Harry goes -ballistic-, and explains that his young son adores DBZ, and as a result he has had to watch it several times.

 

"I taped an episode and timed it. Three quarters of the episode is guys standing on hill tops going AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHG!!!! at each other!". he says. He tells us that it was the worst thing he had -ever- seen on television (Bo-bo-bo-bo-nosehair hadnt come to the States then).

 

As he is in mid tirade, the door chimes open and a young mother comes in. She looks around for a moment, then goes to the counter past us big hairy barbarians, to talk to Harry (who always is neatly attired and well groomed).

 

"My son is twelve", she tells him," and hes got a birthday coming up. Is there anything you can recommend that I could get for him?"

 

Harry doesnt even blink before saying," Well, Dragon Ball Z is very popular with kids that age right now. And we have this collectible card-game thats a -very- hot seller. Im pretty sure hed like that!"

 

The mother smiles and buys about six DBZ related items, on Harry's recommendation. She thanks Harry, smiles, and departs happy.

 

The door closes.

 

"MAN I hate that show." says he.

 

 

(This is why we call him Captain Capitalism)

 

Actually, I like his attitude more than game store owners who decide that, since they personally dislike something, it should not be stocked in their store. For example, the occasional store we hear about on this site whose owner says "We don't stock Hero games because the Hero system sucks".

 

A store that stocks what the owner likes is a hobby, useful to the owner and his similar-thinking buddies. A store that stocks what the customers like is a business, useful to everyone in the hobby. Harry is clearly running a business. His tirade against DBZ would not have been useful to the mother - she wants to know what her 12 year old would like, not what to get Harry for his birthday. The fact that Harry isn't a fan of something that is targetted at, and successful with, the 12 year old demographic isn't relevant to providing customer service to Mom.

[input.jack]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Actually, I like his attitude more than game store owners who decide that, since they personally dislike something, it should not be stocked in their store. For example, the occasional store we hear about on this site whose owner says "We don't stock Hero games because the Hero system sucks".

 

A store that stocks what the owner likes is a hobby, useful to the owner and his similar-thinking buddies. A store that stocks what the customers like is a business, useful to everyone in the hobby. Harry is clearly running a business. His tirade against DBZ would not have been useful to the mother - she wants to know what her 12 year old would like, not what to get Harry for his birthday. The fact that Harry isn't a fan of something that is targetted at, and successful with, the 12 year old demographic isn't relevant to providing customer service to Mom.

 

He is, without question, the most awesome game store owner Ive ever met

[Badger]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I can't belive no-one posted Son Goku. Maybe because he's anime/manga, but look at his character motivations/personilty:

 

1.Fighting.

2.Training (so he can fight better.)

3.Eating (so he can keep training.)

4.Being nice. Because he was dropped on his head as a child.

 

I mean, I can't think of a flatter character ever in print than that, now that I've stopped watching DBZ (although I still want to see Goku's training under King Kai, just to see if I can incorporte into my own martial training.) I mean, look at the current Naruto series and see how even the psycho-killer Gaara gets depth of origin and character.

 

 

Well Goku was my least favorite character for those reasons. I liked Piccolo and Vegeta much more. And to a lesser extent Gohan. I would have loved to see Vegeta finally get the upper hand. But, to be fair I have always found Superman a bit of a flat character, too. (with an occasional exception here and there of course.)

[Badger]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I found the original DragonBall series to be a lot of fun (even if it did have a few to many urination jokes).

 

DBZ was fun for about the first 2 seasons. I realized the show was sucking when it took 8 episodes (thats 3 1/3 hours) for one fight to resolve.

 

Besides how good can a character (or the show he's in) be when the CREATOR keeps trying to kill him off, and only brings him back from the dead to stop the hate mail?

 

 

 

Yeah, count me in as liking the orginal DB overall more. And I thought that DBZ should have ended with that fight vs. Frieza. (which I heard was orignally supposed to be the ending point.) After that, it did kind of get a little tedious (with occasional exceptions). Cell never really seemed more powerful than Frieza in the show. We just had to take their word for it. But, he never really showed that he was. Though I kind of like Fat Buu (comedically) all those wacky incarnations of Buu, just totally confused my mind.

[Badger]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Oh, don't worry you weren't being overly harsh (at least IMO). I may have enjoyed the show for a while but as it progresses it just gets more and more rediculus.

 

That 8 episode fight was actually in season 1, and was edited for American TV when I watched it. Its actually about 9 to 9 1/2 in the oringinal.

 

As the show goes on, Son Goku (the main character) dies and comes back to life about 7 times.

 

Season 3 has such a complicated time travel story that people have needed flow-charts to follow the plot fully.

 

And people have complained about how the JLA exists only to kick the kryptonite away from Superman, well guess what Goku was inspired by Supes. And the basic plot of the show by the second half of season 2 is:

 

All the characters fight with the bad guy and his minions. The bad guy and his minions win, but they don't kill anyone (except maybe Goku). The bad guy gathers energy to transform. The good guys train so they can defeat the bad guy and his minions. The bad guy transforms. The good guys fight and defeat some minions while Goku stands in mid-air looking constipated and gathering energy. Goku shoots the main bad guy with his super-energy attack and vaporizes him.

 

 

 

Oh and dont forget Vegeta helps the bad guy to transform just so Vegeta can get a "challenge" out of it. They turned Vegeta from clever to complete idiot. Must have been Super Saiyan-itis.

[Badger]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

He is' date=' without question, the most awesome game store owner Ive ever met [/quote']

 

 

Seconded. (though technically we havent met him. )

 

 

Anyhow, with DBZ it was kind of a door. I liked it. But it introduced me largely to anime. And I have found some that I definitely like more.

 

 

And as far as hated anime. Pokemon. ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH. I had to watch it when I got stuck with "babysitting" a 5 year old cousin at Christmas 8 or so years ago. While the older adults hung out together. 4 episodes.......if meant getting away, dying didnt seem too bad.

[palaskar]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I have to disagree with Inputjack on Bobobo-bo-bobo. I think it's great. It makes absolutely no sense whatever. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. That's the point. It's like playing a game of HoL every week without watching your characters die.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Yes I watched the animated series, and no it was nowhere near as good as Batman The Animated Series. Superman was still a character with little depth or personality, and too much raw power. Yes he can still do whatever, whenever it is needed: Hi, he's still the strongest, fastest(A brick that can beat The Flash in a race, he did that in the Animated Series btw.), most invulnerable brick, with both fire and ice energy projection and the ability to fly on top of his alien technology gadget pool.

 

C'mon, you can like him all you want, that's fine. To me though, and to alot of comic fans out there, he's just a lame leftover from a long gone era who's real draw is nastalgia appeal.

 

I'm not the only person who thinks he's the worst superhero ever either. There's a long line of guys who think like me, and no, we're not newly indoctrinated comic book fans who just started reading during the age of Liefield and Lee as someone tried to say earlier. As I've stated, you want to like him, like him, but this thread is not about who you like, its about the Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I think it is Supes.

 

 

Just shows people can see the same things and react differently. I found TAs Supes to be the best Supes with a great power level where he was really tough but challenged constantly and a interesting character. TAS batman s just ok. WhatI really like is when Batman and Superman are together in TAs and play off each other. To be fair to Supes lots of his haters aren't like you but people who know him by silver age reputation. Personally for worst I'll go with Az-Bat, On personal loathing but he's probably not really the worst. Anyone remember that old hero who yelled "socromegee" or some such as his body parts detached and fought speparately?

[The_Hero]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Assuming you're checking this thread as you posted to in almost a week ago...

 

Adam,

 

it's been a few weeks and we're waiting on you in Beacons on Herocentral.

[wylodmayer]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I have to disagree with Inputjack on Bobobo-bo-bobo. I think it's great. It makes absolutely no sense whatever. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. That's the point. It's like playing a game of HoL every week without watching your characters die.

 

It's part of the Dadaist/absurdist turn in cartoons, like Aqua Teen Hunger Force. If you like that sort of throw-your-brain-against-the-wall kind of approach to comedy, you'll love it. If not, well, you'll feel as though someone just threw your brain against a wall.

 

I look at it like roller coasters. Everyone who rides them describes the sensations the same way - it's just that some people like that feeling, and some people don't.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Anyone remember that old hero who yelled "socromegee" or some such as his body parts detached and fought speparately?

You may be confusing a couple of characters; "Sockamagee!" was the cry of Robbie Reed, the possessor of the original (alien tech) H-Dial, as in "Dial 'H' For Hero".

 

Though, he turned into some pretty odd characters in his time... so he may have turned into one with detachable body parts... that I am just not remembering... thankfully...

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Oh, god. I can see it now. They're all leather, firearms, and there's a sentient, overly hung cat in the background with white, smirking features, with Alexandra's arm around him.

 

There's bullet holes all over everything, and Alan is smoking a cigarette while Josie licks his ear...

 

The caption at the bottom of the page reads "Not your mother's long tails and ears for hats..."

What. A. Mental. Image.

 

I think I'm in lust. Or traumatized. Or maybe both...

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

I think I'm in lust. Or traumatized. Or maybe both...

Welcome to my world.

 

I feel this way all the time.

 

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Welcome to my world.

 

I feel this way all the time.

 

 

That explains the kiss you gave me down in the NGD...

[pinecone]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

New word for the day; Traumalust....

[Balabanto]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

The trick-- and it's not an easy one-- is being able to unify those disparate ideas with a solid underlying concept. To paraphrase another RPG's superhero book: high DEX and STR' date=' highly-enhanced Danger Sense, Clinging, and a IIF-based Entangle sounds pretty much like a mish-mash at first glance....[/quote']

 

The problem is that no matter how you slice it, some power combinations are always retarded, no matter how you slice it, Brandi.

 

Example:

 

I created a character named Longshadow, who was fairly popular with the GM and his teammates.

 

Unfortunately, Longshadow was retardedly broken. Here were his powers, based on shadowy stuff that he could manipulate into limbs, etc.

 

Darkness. Teleport. Stretching. Hand to Hand Attack. Force Field.

 

That was it. However, it turned out to be disgustingly stupid, because he could pop around the battlefield, make anything half DCV, and anything that was invisible, he would teleport over to, put them in the dark, and take the 11-. He constantly got surprise maneuver bonuses because of the teleport and the stretching, along with the hand to hand attack. At the time, it SEEMED like a great concept. But the reality was, it was broken. To this day, I still need to apologize to Graeme for playing it. Nonetheless, I think he allowed it because there were characters in the game that were more retarded.

[Gideon]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

The problem is that no matter how you slice it, some power combinations are always retarded, no matter how you slice it, Brandi.

 

Example:

 

I created a character named Longshadow, who was fairly popular with the GM and his teammates.

 

Unfortunately, Longshadow was retardedly broken. Here were his powers, based on shadowy stuff that he could manipulate into limbs, etc.

 

Darkness. Teleport. Stretching. Hand to Hand Attack. Force Field.

 

That was it. However, it turned out to be disgustingly stupid, because he could pop around the battlefield, make anything half DCV, and anything that was invisible, he would teleport over to, put them in the dark, and take the 11-. He constantly got surprise maneuver bonuses because of the teleport and the stretching, along with the hand to hand attack. At the time, it SEEMED like a great concept. But the reality was, it was broken. To this day, I still need to apologize to Graeme for playing it. Nonetheless, I think he allowed it because there were characters in the game that were more retarded.

There is a difference between your character Longshadow, and characters like Spiderman and Cable (or the stupid Clawed, Metalline Skined, Gravity Bolt Projecting, picture-giving-life-to-psyonicly man I mentioned).

 

Not knowing the theme behind Spiderman (and just seeing the list of powers written out on a piece of paper), there doesn't seem to be a corolation between the powers. Or as Brandi put it: "high DEX and STR, highly-enhanced Danger Sense, Clinging, and a IIF-based Entangle sounds pretty much like a mish-mash at first glance."

 

Cable's powers seem to be more of a justification for what the character looks like than an actual concept. In fact I truely believe that there was no actual concept for what Cable could or couldn't do (other than look "kewl", shoot guns, and teleport) until he had been around for almost a year.

 

And well my example from Marvel Universe is stupid because there is no way to take that random set of powers and make a solid concept out of it.

 

The character you played had powers and abilites made sense and had a consistant theme to them, he was just overly powerful for the game.

[Clonus]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

There is a difference between your character Longshadow, and characters like Spiderman and Cable (or the stupid Clawed, Metalline Skined, Gravity Bolt Projecting, picture-giving-life-to-psyonicly man I mentioned).

 

Not knowing the theme behind Spiderman (and just seeing the list of powers written out on a piece of paper), there doesn't seem to be a corolation between the powers. Or as Brandi put it: "high DEX and STR, highly-enhanced Danger Sense, Clinging, and a IIF-based Entangle sounds pretty much like a mish-mash at first glance."

 

Dexterity and Strength are like basic black. They go with everything except paraplegia. Clinging and an entangle go to together quite well as well. They both have that "sticky" theme going for them. Danger Sense doesn't seem too terribly odd. (Although my Spider-Clone just has an enhanced sense of touch instead). The strange part is the combination of "desperately poor" and "gadgeteer". That I find hard to believe. I notice they dropped the gadgeteer thing for the movie.

 

 

 

 

And well my example from Marvel Universe is stupid because there is no way to take that random set of powers and make a solid concept out of it.

 

Susan Griffith was a sculptor. Obsessed by her art, she worked day and night on it, going without sleep or food for days at a time. She loved her boyfriend, sure, but her art was her life. Maybe it was his resentment at taking second place to her art that caused him to do what he did, or maybe it was because he was jealous that his career hadn't gone anywhere, and her work was now the new big thing. Corporations and the wealthiest men alive were lining up to buy her sculptures to decorate their property.

 

But one night she woke up unexpectedly, from a dream in which her latest work was calling to her for help. She went down to her workshop and discovered her boyfriend in the act, raping her creation by drilling a hole and inserting a listening device no wider than a hair. The metal in the statue would conceal it from normal anti-bug sweeps. He'd gone into the business of selling corporate secrets and he was perverting her work to do it. From there things went from bad to worse, and in the ensuing beating he struck her down with one of the ingots that she used for raw material. Her scalp bled profusely and he fled, convinced that he'd killed her.

 

When she awoke, she decided to work off her frustration. What could she do? If she revealed what had happened with her statues her reputation would be ruined. Worse, her children would probably be destroyed or discarded. She finished carving the new cast, a kind of self-portrait of the way she felt. The molten metal, with her own blood in the mix, had been ready for some time and she poured it in to the mold brooding on her frustration. Even more intense pain stabbed into her head. It belatedly occured to her that perhaps she should have gone to a hospital instead of working for the last 12 hours. Was she dying? One of those subdural whatevers? She held both her hands to her head and screamed, and at that moment the mold burst apart, turning into shrapnel as it exploded. She was bleeding again, and not just from the head.

 

Her eyes widened as her creation stood up. What a beautiful and terrible thing she'd created, the shape of the fierce female warriour she wished she was instead of a mousy recluse who'd let herself be taken advantage of. It stalked over to where she lay bleeding and touched her wound. It thoughtfully looked at it's finger tip and then began to draw some strange symbol on her forehead. She wanted to ask it what it was doing, but everything went dark.

 

When she woke up she was in the hospital and the police wanted a statement from her. She played dumb. If she told them what had happened then they'd want to know what started the quarrel and then everyone would find out. Besides they might starting down her huntress, and Susan was sure her living statue meant no harm. Her supposed memory loss of course was something the doctors tried to make into a reason for her to stay for "observation", but she threw a fit of feigned artistic temperament and made them let her go. She'd never approved of the way of her colleagues used being an artist as an excuse for turning into a bully, but she had to admit it worked to get your way.

 

Back in her own flat, she had time to think. What could she do? She had no idea what had happened to her latest creation but it could probably take care of itself. But what about her other babies being used to spy on people like that nice Mr. Harmon? She went into her bathroom and splashed water on her face. Would she really have to tell him and her other patrons what had happened. She couldn't just leave them there. If she could...take them back. A metal face was looking back at her from the mirror. She looked down and saw the clawed hand she'd made and realised just where her creation had really gone.

 

That night, the first in a series of thefts took place. A new supervillain, quickly dubbed "Galatea" was stealing, one by one, each of the very expensive sculptures created by Susan Griffith, even the gigantic multiton ones. As she approached them, they would come to life and follow her commands. When a hero tried to stop her, she caught him off-guard with some kind of force-bolt. The authorities feared she was creating a army of statuary. Actually she just planned to keep her work safe until she was sure she'd neutralised all the spy-devices. Then she'd let someone discover them and return them to their owners. Being a supervillain wasn't really something she relished, but it was the only way to save her babies.

 

Have I mentioned I love randomly generated characters?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

And well my example from Marvel Universe is stupid because there is no way to take that random set of powers and make a solid concept out of it.

 

This brings flashbacks of the Golden Heroes game. GH provided for randomly generated superpowers, of which you had a random number. You could spend 2 rolls to enhance a power already rolled, IIRC, or 3 to select a specific power you had not already rolled.

 

But there was an unusual catch. Once you finished rolling, you had to build our character's concept and backstory. Any powers which didn't fit the concept went away. The more powers you rolled, and the harder they were to fit together, the more you likely had to write out at this step of the process.

[Lucius]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

My criteria make no sense?

 

Superman can do anything, can be defeated by nothing, and if something just happens to get the upper hand he has a bigger gadget pool than Reed Richards.

 

Its something a six year old kid would create when he and his buddies were running around playing in the backyard. He's just bad...so very, very, bad.

 

Honestly, 100% seriousness to all of the Superman apologists.

 

If he didn't exist before now, if there was no 'Superman' template even, and he came along today, would he even make it into a comic book?

 

With great sympathy for your point of view, and jumping in before reaching the end of the thread, I still have to ask:

 

In that hypothetical world, were there BE a comic book to make it into?

 

Would there BE a concept of "superhero?"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary considers that one might actually argue either way....

[Clonus]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

With great sympathy for your point of view, and jumping in before reaching the end of the thread, I still have to ask:

 

In that hypothetical world, were there BE a comic book to make it into?

 

Would there BE a concept of "superhero?"

 

The Phantom, the first character to wear a skin-tight costume while fighting crime started publication in newspapers in 1936. Super-powered crimefighters were already well represented in pulp magazines.

 

But without Superman I don't think they would be called "superheroes", and it seems unlikely that they would dominate the American comic book industry the way they do.

[Lucius]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Last observation for today:

 

While there's a lot to be said against Superman, and on another day I'd probably be inclined to say it, I don't think he possibly qualifies as "worst ever."

 

In fact, I can give a single example that, if nothing else, redeems him from being "worst ever."

 

 

 

I remember a page where someone - Lois Lane I think - is talking to him and says something to the effect of "you can't save everyone" or "you can't save the whole world."

 

Last panel he's heading out the window, into the night, and his last words are

 

 

"I've got to try."

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reminds me I have an appointment with an eye doctor. See you all later.

[Arac-4105]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

In an effort to add another name to this, I'd like to propose Impact Comics' The Fox for W.H.E. status. Let's look at the stats:

 

Powers: talks to animals, can try to manipulate the environment (cutting off oxygen to a raging fire was his only attempt), connection to the 'spirit of the earth', fur, claws, fangs.

 

Background: native-american eco-terrorist, friend of someone powerful in organized crime.

 

Since he only had about half of an issue to himself, and that focused on his origin, there's not a lot to go on. But considering all that I've just mentioned, it's possible he was Impact's 'version' of Aquaman: interesting concept done poorly.

 

Just my $0.02

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Worst. Hero. Ever.

 

Brother Power the Geek.