Your version of the Champions

[Dominique]

Okay, I'm not to keen on the 5e version of the Champions, and I'm wondering if you ran the show, what would your line-up of the team look like? Would you bring back seom of the classics (Marksman, Crusader, etc.), revamp some of the current members, or bring in new members from the current CU?

[Korvar]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I prefer Obsidian to Ironclad... In fact, generally the 4thEd as compared to the 5th Ed.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I've always used the Champions as the JLA/Avengers of my world. The current line up includes Obsidian (Chairman), Quantum (sporting the look from C:NM), Nighthawk (with a different look), Defender (in current armor), Solitaire (who's Defender's ex-wife), Jaguar (who's more like Puma) and Gamut (an archer with martial arts training).

Past members have included Seeker (who now works for UNTIL), Behemoth I (retired after a near-fatal injury), Behemoth II (who has been banished from the realm), Atlanta (who's turned her life to ruling Atlantis), Whisper (retired to become a full-time investigator), Autofire (retired to train young heroes), Gargoyle (went evil and rampaged until cured), Sapphire (part-time member), Hornet (semi-retirement) and Honeybee (semi-retirement)

I tended to scratch the serial numbers off The Guardians in a few instances, as I changed quite a bit about them. There were some other members as well, but I have to find my notes

 

They've had a few bases, including Homestead Manor, the Champions Satellite and Champions Isle. They're currently back in Homestead Manor. They've also had a few vehicles, currently using the JumpJet IV aerospace vehicle.

[MitchellS]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I'd rather have seen 5e go with a new line up of characters that showed the versatility of the system instead of going with a 4e homage team. Out of all the possible archetype choices why pick the same ones as the 4e team? The 4e characters' power builds were really bland from a versatility standpoint and 5e did nothing to fix that. It would have been more interesting to see the 5e champions homage the comics rather then the 4e team.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I'd rather have seen 5e go with a new line up of characters that showed the versatility of the system instead of going with a 4e homage team. Out of all the possible archetype choices why pick the same ones as the 4e team? The 4e characters' power builds were really bland from a versatility standpoint and 5e did nothing to fix that. It would have been more interesting to see the 5e champions homage the comics rather then the 4e team.

I think that both the 5e and 4e charaters could be made to seem more like their comic-book counterparts with some tweaking here and there

[Enforcer84]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I use the Guardians as the Guardians, their membership includes every "Old Skool" Champions reference I can find.

 

For the Champions, I basically blend the two teams; preferring Obsidian to Ironclad and the others can stay the same. I've used Witchcraft as Solitaire's aprentice, Saphire as a fill in for Quantum, Seeker and Nighthawk. Defender's had several armors...etc.

[Checkmate]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I'd use C:NM's Defender (all time favorite Champs character and I have no idea why), Behemoth, and Quantum. Solitare, and Seeker (with redesigned origin) from 4th.

[assault]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

Meh. As long as Seeker is there, I'm happy.

 

Or, failing that, he can be back in Australia training a new generation of supers.

 

For what it's worth, I don't have any problem with his origin. I do have a problem with him not wearing a shirt.

 

I like having Crusader and Starburst around as iconic heroes. That requires throwing a whole bunch of points at them, of course. I'm not sure I would necessarily have them in the Champions, though.

 

Actually, I'm not a huge fan of either the 4th or 5th edition versions of the Champions in general. Neither of them give me much of a "if this was a comic, I would read it!" vibe. Except for Seeker.

 

Hmm... well, if I did have to put a team together, I would go with: Starburst, Crusader, Seeker, and... Shrinker! After she becomes a villain, I would eventually have Icicle reform and join the team. I'd read that.

[Hermit]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I actually like the 5th Ed Champions. Once I gave them a chance, and started using them to interact with the PCs they gained new dimensions with surprising speed.

 

Nighthawk may seem like just a batman clone, but he's far more of a teamplayer. James Harmon as a secret ID seems much more like a bumbling version of Bruce Wayne than the ultra smooth (Pre Evil) Tony Stark and his father seeing him as a disapointment. Ironclad's nature as soldier/engineer gone AWOL has been fun to explore even if alien Gladiators are perhaps overdone. Sapphire being so often in the public eye allows for good setting garnish, and leads to some plot hooks for superbattles in unusual places. Kinetik's trivia wizardry is fun to play up. Witchcraft has an evil sister AND a destiny, having her slowly grow out of her underconfidence lead to some intriguing storylines in itself.

[Theron]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I hadn't been too impressed with the 5e Champions until I played con session using them as pre-gens. Some of it might have been the GM (Steve L.), but I found the characters were actually alright. I'm not a big fan of established superhero teams that are at the same power level as starting PCs, so I really hadn't looked at their write-ups before that game.

 

Personally, I prefer the C:NM incarnations/origins of the team, but to each his own.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I'm split. I like Sapphire and Ironclad better than Quantum and Obsidian, and the improved Defender is, well, an improvement. However, Solitaire and Seeker are vastly better than Witchcraft and Nightduck.

 

Undecided whether I'm going to use the Champions at all in my current game though ( non-Hero based, with stuff stolen from alot of different sources ).

[bwdemon]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

C:NM - Behemoth + Goliath - Seeker + Nighthawk

[Kirby]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

Okay' date=' I'm not to keen on the 5e version of the Champions, and I'm wondering if you ran the show, what would your line-up of the team look like? Would you bring back seom of the classics (Marksman, Crusader, etc.), revamp some of the current members, or bring in new members from the current CU?[/quote']Hmm, I prefer 4e over 5e, however, in the campaign I'm currently running, Gigaton ambushed the Ironclad, Defender and Sapphire as they were about to take off in the V-Jet. Defender and Sapphire were pretty much out of the battle from the start. Nighthawk and Witchcraft soon joined the fight, but they didn't make it past Phase 5. Ironclad fell on Phase 12, though he did manage to do 2 Body to Gigaton before it was over.

 

Ambushes work well for villains. Now I need new Champions.

[Cold Steel]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

My version:

 

5th Ed. Defender

 

Obsidian

 

Sapphire

 

Solitaire

 

Jaguar

[wylodmayer]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

The one time I used them in a universe, Solitaire and Defender were killed and the characters hated Nightwing. The only other member on that team was Sapphire. I might have used Seeker, too, but I can't remember.

 

That was actually a neat arc. It tied in with an arc that I mentioned over in "Need Stupid Ideas." The gist of it is that Solitaire got offed in a particularly gruesome way by a villain whom no one realized was a bad guy until, well, he killed Solitaire. The PCs eventually busted the guy, earning Defender's gratitude (and the right to list him as a Contact), but the Champions broke up over the tragedy, leaving the PCs as the default hero team of record in the city.

 

Solitaire's sister, meanwhile, went berzerk, holding Defender personally responsible for not protecting her "naive" sister while she did her stupid "hero thing." Cowardly to the last, she was unwilling to confront him unless she had overwhelming force on her side, but she was aware that one of the PCs - who was apparently an angel of some sort - derived her powers from a set of rings, holy artifacts. Because of the way the things work, anyone who is duly entitled to bear them can use them; no Thor's hammer worthiness clause or anything. So she sets about figuring out the angel's Secret ID.

 

She eventually does so, and gets close to the girl in question. Over time, she's eventually able to erode her confidence in being a hero, and eventually gets the PC to let her "hold" the rings for a time while she tries to decide whether she really wants the whole angel job.

 

Well, the PC almost immediately reconsiders, but by then it's too late, and our bad guy, now with all her infernal powers AND the angelic ones the PC had, teleports Defender in his secret ID - sans armor - over to the Cloisters where she can kill him in style. I can't remember exactly how it happened, but everyone wound up there - I think one was patrolling near the Cloisters and actually caught what was happening on her Enhanced Senses, and the others got there in some convincing fashion. But after a long soliloquy, and a brief fight, she kills Defender.

 

The arc got even more complex after that. It was weird. One of the PCs started wearing Defender's armor, at his dying request, so that the city wouldn't be without its most well known protector. Another PC, a pagan goddess, eventually resurrected Defender, which prompted a crisis of faith on his part. Etc.

 

And oh, yeah, the reason everyone hated Nightwing was that I played him with all the arrogance of Batman, but falliable. He was right a lot of the time, and good at what he did, but he was a complete jerk and he could never acknowledge when he was wrong, which he was in a few crucial situations. Eventually the team's resident speedster tired of his lip and beat the ever-lovin' snot out of him.

[Kirby]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

Hmm, I prefer 4e over 5e, however, in the campaign I'm currently running, Gigaton ambushed the Ironclad, Defender and Sapphire as they were about to take off in the V-Jet. Defender and Sapphire were pretty much out of the battle from the start. Nighthawk and Witchcraft soon joined the fight, but they didn't make it past Phase 5. Ironclad fell on Phase 12, though he did manage to do 2 Body to Gigaton before it was over.

 

Ambushes work well for villains. Now I need new Champions.

Gigaton is currently battling the PCs in my campaign and has mentioned that he's killed off the Champions (confirmed reports have yet to come in. ). This didn't get much of a response from the PCs like I thought it should; however, they might be distracted by the fact that Doctor Destroyer is on the same battlefield they are...and that an alien extermination squad (two of whom Dr. D has brutally killed) is trying to exterminate Destroyer.

 

And this is just the introductory plot.

 

[Kirby]

BEHOLD Thread Necromancy!

 

As an update, the PCs have just heard the news that Nighthawk, Defender, and Ironclad have been killed and that Sapphire and Witchcraft are in intensive care.

 

The news media has "linked" the deaths to V'han's invasion, even though Gigaton is responsible for it.

[Hermit]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

Those poor women... they need comforting.

 

[ArchLight]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I prefer Obsidian to Ironclad... In fact' date=' generally the 4thEd as compared to the 5th Ed.[/quote']

 

 

Ditto I cannot stand Iron clad.

[braincraft]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I really like certain aspects of both the 4th and 5th edition teams. If I were going to have the Champions in my campaign, I'd mix and match background elements; Obsidian would be a scientist/prince, but also an escaped gladiator. Solitaire would have that broken-wing innocent assassin charm, but also have an evil twin sister and a dark destiny. I like Seeker and Darkhawk, Quantum but also Sapphire, so it's a tossup; I might keep all four. Even Jaguar fills a street-level slot that the others sort of miss out on.

 

The only one I don't like particularly is Defender. I know he fills the big blue boyscout slot, but somehow he doesn't have an interesting gimmick the way the others do.

[Checkmate]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

The only one I don't like particularly is Defender. I know he fills the big blue boyscout slot, but somehow he doesn't have an interesting gimmick the way the others do.

 

That's why Defender from C:TNM rules. The teenage kid with all the other nerds..err..really smart kids that don't have girlfriends that help him out.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I agree 100% ... that Defender was great

[Edsel]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

I am a fan of the 4E line-up. I much prefer Solitare and Seeker over their 5E replacements.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

Since CU Update, the new Champions have grown on me. I'd be halfway inclined to have a "Earth 1 / Earth 2" setup, where the Champions are the 4e and 5e rosters, more or less. With regular crossover and such.

[braincraft]

Re: Your version of the Champions

 

That's why Defender from C:TNM rules. The teenage kid with all the other nerds..err..really smart kids that don't have girlfriends that help him out.

 

Well, yeah, but that's... Fuzion. I don't know if it's worth trying to track down a copy of a book with rules I'll never use.

 

Is there a conversion anywhere? Or at least a rundown on why he's cool?