Toadmaster Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Any opinion on my PDW post? Sorry, got side tracked with gunbunny stuff. Looks good but I'd drop the damage to 1 1/2d6. It has considerably less energy than a 5.56mm which does 2d6. The 6x35mm is closer to the power of a .357 Magnum or .30 Carbine which both do 1 1/2d6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I see... I think I made it 2d6 based on some listings in Dark Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I'd make it more powerful than the .30 Carbine round, which by all accounts (at least those I've seen) was notoriously underpowered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I'd make it more powerful than the .30 Carbine round' date=' which by all accounts (at least those I've seen) was notoriously underpowered.[/quote'] Seriously so. My father served in Japan during the Korean War, and told me once of the many times US soldiers would seek to swap their M2's for the Australian 9mm. SMGs. The carbine had a reputation of having all the stopping power of lint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I'd make it more powerful than the .30 Carbine round' date=' which by all accounts (at least those I've seen) was notoriously underpowered.[/quote'] 30 Carbine is a more powerful round, 880 ft/lbs vs 831 ft/lbs. 5.56mm has twice the energy at 1700 ft/lbs. Remember many of these new rounds are being proposed because people say the 5.56mm is underpowered. The .30 Carbine really got its reputation for poor performance in Korea when the Chinese with heavy winter clothing were encountered. There were also some complaints when it was being used at greater range than intended. In close terrain like cities, forest, jungle etc it was well liked. Also keep in mind it was being compared to the .30-06, a round considerably more powerful than any of the rounds we are discussing. The .30-06 also maintains good effectiveness out to 1000 yards or so, the Carbine was not really intended for more than 150-200 yards. Seriously so. My father served in Japan during the Korean War' date=' and told me once of the many times US soldiers would seek to swap their M2's for the Australian 9mm. SMGs. The carbine had a reputation of having all the stopping power of lint.[/quote'] I would guess that was probably a lot of hearsay. The M1 Carbine served with US Forces for a good 20 years, in 3 wars it would not have done so if it wasn't a useful weapon. Korea had a big problem with human wave attacks, which I'm sure had a big role to play in the perception weapons had no stopping power. The .30 Carbine has twice the energy of a 9mm and twice the range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundog Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games 30 Carbine is a more powerful round, 880 ft/lbs vs 831 ft/lbs. 5.56mm has twice the energy at 1700 ft/lbs. Remember many of these new rounds are being proposed because people say the 5.56mm is underpowered. The .30 Carbine really got its reputation for poor performance in Korea when the Chinese with heavy winter clothing were encountered. There were also some complaints when it was being used at greater range than intended. In close terrain like cities, forest, jungle etc it was well liked. Also keep in mind it was being compared to the .30-06, a round considerably more powerful than any of the rounds we are discussing. The .30-06 also maintains good effectiveness out to 1000 yards or so, the Carbine was not really intended for more than 150-200 yards. I would guess that was probably a lot of hearsay. The M1 Carbine served with US Forces for a good 20 years, in 3 wars it would not have done so if it wasn't a useful weapon. Korea had a big problem with human wave attacks, which I'm sure had a big role to play in the perception weapons had no stopping power. The .30 Carbine has twice the energy of a 9mm and twice the range. Objectively, you're correct, of course. But perception has a reality all it's own. Plus, the Owen was one massively reliable gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Objectively' date=' you're correct, of course. But perception has a reality all it's own. Plus, the Owen was one massively reliable gun.[/quote'] That is kind of what I was getting at with the human waves, there were complaints the M1 Garand was underpowered. It really wasn't the gun it was massive waves of soldiers that just kept coming. There were even cases of quad .50s and 40mm Bofors getting over run, so its not surprising a small carbine felt insufficient. The Owen had a very good reputation coming out of WW2 and as with many weapons there were probably quite a few that felt the other guys weapon was better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Hmm, I'm now thinking of coolminiornot and a voting system. Ideally what you want to translate real world guns into rpg guns is a ranking system for damage, accuracy, weight, price etc. Some of the traits are subjective - therefore you should do some kind of voting thing - just like coolminiornot. That way folk who have used these things can help determine what rankings they should have in relation to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Hmm, I'm now thinking of coolminiornot and a voting system. Ideally what you want to translate real world guns into rpg guns is a ranking system for damage, accuracy, weight, price etc. Some of the traits are subjective - therefore you should do some kind of voting thing - just like coolminiornot. That way folk who have used these things can help determine what rankings they should have in relation to each other. I don't know if there's enough, what's the word... granularity?... in HERO to distinguish between all the various small arms out there. And it's easy to understate the difference between what a pistol can do, and what a rifle can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games I don't know if there's enough' date=' what's the word... granularity?... in HERO to distinguish between all the various small arms out there.[/quote'] Does any system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Does any system? But of course... Phoenix Command, Mwahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games The Hero System doesn't need to. You just look at the list and group every 10 or so guns by 1/2 D6 (or however you determine the groupings). There is no useful reason to create rules that differentiate between guns that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Actually you can make quite a bit of difference between different guns. Damage class is a good indicator of damage and penetration Stun X allows for for some variation, heavy slow slugs vs fast light slugs. RMod allows for the better range of high velocity rounds and long barreled weapons. AP, Red Pen, Piercing etc can be used to further modify the feel of weapons. Certainly light handgun (DC3), medium handgun (DC4), heavy handgun (DC6) are just fine for some games, but for those who want more flavor in their weapons HERO does just fine with a little creative use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games There is no useful reason to create rules that differentiate between guns that much. Speak for yourself. Seriously though, it is all up to individual games. Some people may be fine with alien and fantasy races being exactly the same as humans except for a more exotic look, some may want to break down races into multiple branches, mountain dwarf, hill dwarf. Some may be fine with "jet fighter", some want to actually have seperate stats for F16 Falcon, F18 Hornet Tornado etc. Nice thing is the game works for lots of different types of player groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Let us gun nuts have our pie, dangit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games The Hero System doesn't need to. You just look at the list and group every 10 or so guns by 1/2 D6 (or however you determine the groupings). There is no useful reason to create rules that differentiate between guns that much. I didn't say, really, one way or the other, if there were a need. I was only observing that it might be difficult to do so within the scale made possible by the HERO rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games In 1914, Austrian watchmaker Georg Grabner created the Kolibri — the “Hummingbird” pistol. The smallest autoloading pistol ever made, it fires a .11 caliber bullet. He marketed it as a self-defense firearm for women to carry in their purses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games One of my books lists this gun and comments that it might be useful for dispatching a belligerent mouse or cockroach. The 2.7mm round has a whopping 3 ft/lbs of energy. For comparison the .22 Long Rifle has 159 ft / lbs. The 2.7mm bullet weighs 3 grains, just 1/12 the weight of a .22 bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games This gun shows up in the old Justice Inc. source book. It did 1 pip of damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games But of course... Phoenix Command' date=' Mwahahaha [/quote'] You Bastiche! oh, wait, I have some of those books... Now which storage box are they in??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games If you design an oversized "super handgun" based on the old snub nose .38 (which upon checking wiki, has a 1.875" barrel), and tried to fit it within the max size limits of real-world handguns(primarily, a barrel length limit of 14-15"), simply scaling up would give a caliber of around 72mm...but I'm guessing the size of the slug and cartridge would be too much to make it remotely resemble a handgun, even in the hands of a Hellboy-sized wielder. Hmm...maybe 35 to 57mm? The old Mayfair Underground game had handguns of up to 30mm caliber. I guess you could call something like that a "handzooka". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games This gun shows up in the old Justice Inc. source book. It did 1 pip of damage. I remember that, I think 1 pip is generous considering most BB guns are more powerful. It would be getting pretty nit picky though to create a new damage system for one gun that was probably more of an exercise in making the smallest gun in the world than intended as an actual weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted May 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games If you design an oversized "super handgun" based on the old snub nose .38 (which upon checking wiki, has a 1.875" barrel), and tried to fit it within the max size limits of real-world handguns(primarily, a barrel length limit of 14-15"), simply scaling up would give a caliber of around 72mm...but I'm guessing the size of the slug and cartridge would be too much to make it remotely resemble a handgun, even in the hands of a Hellboy-sized wielder. Hmm...maybe 35 to 57mm? The old Mayfair Underground game had handguns of up to 30mm caliber. I guess you could call something like that a "handzooka". Hehe. For this, I present the .600 Nitro Express Revolver (I believe previously pictured): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curufea Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Reminds me of the Johnny Silverhand gun from Cyberpunk 2020. A pistol specifically designed for a the rocker of the same name. It could only be fired safely by someone with sufficiently stabilised and reinforced cyberarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remjin Posted May 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Re: Cool Guns for your Games Reminds me of the Johnny Silverhand gun from Cyberpunk 2020. A pistol specifically designed for a the rocker of the same name. It could only be fired safely by someone with sufficiently stabilised and reinforced cyberarm. I really loved Cyberpunk... *sigh* I never really got the whole "rocker" thing that much, but still, it was an interesting touch. I just liked the environment and the genre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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