rjcurrie Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 I'm trying to make a decision on how to replace Challenger (http://supersquadamerica.com/supersquad/challenger.htm) on my SuperSquad America convention team. Let me point out the background for Challenger (David Kennedy) on the site is the one used for the 2006 SuperSquad America convention events. That year, the supervillain DeathGrip murdered Dianne Armstrong Kennedy (David's wife). Dianne's death sent her son (and Challenger's stepson), Bernie Armstrong (fellow SuperSquad member Fast Track), over the edge and down the road to becoming TIme Twister, a villainous time manipulating version of Bernie from an alternate timeline. After Dianne's funeral, David announced his retirement frin the role of Challenger. In the 2007 game, the SuperSquad (with help from the retired David Kennedy) defeated and depowered Bernie. David refused to come out of retirement permanently. Before the events of the least two years, SuperSquad America had 9 members. Now Challenger and Fast Track are both gone and I've decided that I am only going to replace one of them since I like having 8 on the team. For a few reasons, I like the idea of a New Challenger: The just retired Challenger is the son of the original Challenger. In the SuperSquad America universe, the original Challenger is very much the Captain America/Superman of the SuperSquad America universe. He was the first and best of superheroes. The current Challenger wears a battlesuit so several of the powers could be passed on. I like the name. One idea I did have was to have, Joey Diabello, who built and maintains David's battlesuit don the suit. While Joey would not have David's martial arts prowess (he could modify the suit to compensate), he would have a number of the scientific skills that the team lost in Fast Track. However, David met Joey while the former was a Harvard undergrad and the latter was already a MIT dropout. This implies that Joey is probably at least a year or two older than David. And since, David turns 37 in 2008, Joey is proabably 38 or 39 -- in any event, probably a little too old to be starting a superhero career. Also, Joey would be another just-short of middle-age white guy much llike David. A second idea which just occurred to me as I was writing this post would be to put Bernie Armstrong (the former Fast Track) in the armor. While Bernie no longer has hsi superspeed or a lot of his super-intelligence, he still has top scientific/engineering mind and those skills would be useful to the team and to maintaining/modifying the battlesuit. He is also a logical legacy hero. He is David Kennedy's stpeson and also has ties to David's father, the original Challenger. On the negative side, Bernie has a lot of baggage. Also at least one version of the Time Twister battlesuit was a modified version of Challenger's suit which might make his teammates a little nervous. So, if I don't go with either of those ideas, I need to look elsewhere for a new Challenger and that leads to me asking a few questions about what such a character should be like. The original Challenger got his name from President John F. Kennedy who dubbed him "a hero to meet the challenge of the new frontier". I was thinking a new Challenger could "meet the challenger of the new millennium" or something similar. What would be the "challenge of the new millennium"? Should they be patriotic? Both previous Challengers have been patriots, although as much to the ideals of America as to its government. Should they wear the battlesuit? Or just take the name? David wore the battlesuit because he did not inherit any of his dad's enhanced characteristics. It's not explicitly tied to the character concept. Should they be a visible minority? The original Challenger was a white male; his son was a white male. SuperSquad America is mainly white. Of the seven current members, five are white, one is black, and one is an alien mind in a white man's body, so perhaps a minority would be good. On the other hand, this reeks of 1980s comics where it seemed every time you turned around, a white maile hero was being replaced was a minority version. Should they be male? Of the other seven members, 4 are females and 3 are males, so making the replacement male would even out the sides. On the other hand, I have run SuperSuqad America before with a mix of five females and three mailes without problems. Should they be given the suit/name? Or should they take it on their own? Powerwise, I'm not sure how to go. The Challenger battlesuit was designerd to enhance David Kennedy's own hand-to-hand fighting prowess. Outside of the suit, David can hold his own in a fight. (Side Note: Challenger was originally designed in reaction to powered armor characters who were just straight 10s when you took their armor off.) The suit also gave enhanced perceptions and, in later years, some flight. Of course, the suit can be modified (or rebuilt) to fit almost any power set or as mentioned above, possibly not used at all. Here's a rundown on the basic archetypes of the team: Silver Bow: weaponmaster Forethought: mentalist/mystic Crimson Fist: energy projector Nightingale: energy projector/mystic Impact: martial artist/speedster Mr. Z: mentalist/metamorph (sort of) Diva: brick So, what would fit best? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I like the idea of Joey. Tech guy who could maintain and improve the battlesuit, and see first hand what changes/upgrades he needs. I like the angle of the guy who was content to be in a support role and never expected to be a superhero suddenly thrust into the role of following the legacy of THE iconic hero for the setting. As for gender/ethnic issues, have the battlesuit vague enough including altered voice that in theory it could be ANYONE in there. In fact, that could be a way to go about it down the road - make Challenger a 'team within the team' with different people wearing the armor at different times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Joey might go into it with different motivations. Instead of donning the armor to fight crime as a patriot, maybe he wants to finally work out some of those kinks so that he can reproduce it. If he could just get it working well enough, the designs could be sold to law enforcement and military personnel, etc. So he sees himself as more of a field-tester than a superhero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I like the idea of keeping the name "Challenger" and keeping the battlesuit. Does Joey have a son or a protege? Perhaps that individual could don the suit (maybe without express permission) and become the new Challenger. If protege, this would easily bring the science skills back in (at a lower level, probably) and he could easily be a minority if you wish. My first thought was an Asian, perhaps with some martial arts training. If that's too stereotypical, you could always go off-brand: "I happen to like boxing. Why does everyone assume I know karate?!" If the rest of SSA isn't all that keen on this individual usurping the armor, this adds a different meaning to "Challenger" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I like the idea of making Challenger a girl. We talked about that briefly. But quite frankly, if I were Crimson Fist, his lovely wife, or heck, if I were Mr Z, I wouldn't let Bernie within TWO HUNDRED MILES of Super Squad Headquarters. Diva? Forget it! She'd slam the door in his face. That's over half the team right there. Another option is you could run "The Challenger War" This year. I know you have a fondness for other dimensions, but for whatever reason, the cosmic forces that run these universes have created a bunch of problems that only Supersquad America can solve, and for some reason, they all focus on Challenger. Write about eight different Challenger backgrounds and then put one of them in the group, and at the end, your moral dilemma is having people pick which Challenger they'll keep, while the others have their dimensions destroyed by the aftereffects of Bernies timetwister wave from year ten. Nine universes! Only one survives! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted January 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I like the idea of making Challenger a girl. We talked about that briefly. But quite frankly, if I were Crimson Fist, his lovely wife, or heck, if I were Mr Z, I wouldn't let Bernie within TWO HUNDRED MILES of Super Squad Headquarters. Diva? Forget it! She'd slam the door in his face. That's over half the team right there. Another option is you could run "The Challenger War" This year. I know you have a fondness for other dimensions, but for whatever reason, the cosmic forces that run these universes have created a bunch of problems that only Supersquad America can solve, and for some reason, they all focus on Challenger. Write about eight different Challenger backgrounds and then put one of them in the group, and at the end, your moral dilemma is having people pick which Challenger they'll keep, while the others have their dimensions destroyed by the aftereffects of Bernies timetwister wave from year ten. Nine universes! Only one survives! Interesting thought. It's certainly better the idea that briefly crossed my mind of having a reality TV show pick the next person to wear the Challenger battlesuit. In truth, I kind of want to move on from Time Twister related plotlines. If this were a comic book, Issue 11 (that is, the 11th year of SuperSquad America)would be a good jumping-on point for new readers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I think I'd come from left feild...The "new" Challenger showed up to fight the old for ownership of the name. I'd have it be a male, and I'd go with a minority. But I'm not very politicy in game, so its optional in my mind. I like the chalenger char, but did not like his super suit. So I am advocating losing it. Let Joey become a NPC hero with a renamed supersuit...maybe a super DNPC. And go back to Challenger having super abilitys, but using the same themes in his costume.....sort of a "Challenger for the 21st century". Thats how I'd go anyway...YMMV... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattingly Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Another option is you could run "The Challenger War" This year. Write about eight different Challenger backgrounds and then put one of them in the group, and at the end, your moral dilemma is having people pick which Challenger they'll keep, while the others have their dimensions destroyed by the aftereffects of Bernies timetwister wave from year ten. Ooh, or what if everyone at the table played an alternate "Challenger" this year, all trying to somehow become the predominant Challenger that will win membership on the team when their universes collide and merge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted January 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I think I'd come from left feild...The "new" Challenger showed up to fight the old for ownership of the name. I'd have it be a male, and I'd go with a minority. But I'm not very politicy in game, so its optional in my mind. I like the chalenger char, but did not like his super suit. So I am advocating losing it. Let Joey become a NPC hero with a renamed supersuit...maybe a super DNPC. And go back to Challenger having super abilitys, but using the same themes in his costume.....sort of a "Challenger for the 21st century". Thats how I'd go anyway...YMMV... Thanks. Anything in particular you didn't like about the battlesuit? Hmmm. A "Challenger for the 21sst century", eh? When I think about a phrase like that, I think of something even more futuristic than a battlesuit -- like cybernetics, perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted January 13, 2008 Report Share Posted January 13, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Interesting thought. It's certainly better the idea that briefly crossed my mind of having a reality TV show pick the next person to wear the Challenger battlesuit. Rather than a reality show, a competition between the most likely candidates. Pick six to eight individuals and give them each a power-suit similar to Challenger's, with some sort of override in case the power goes to the wearer's head. The candidates would include Joey Diabello and Bernie Armstrong, plus a few notables from within the superhuman community (the DNPC of another SuperSquad character, for example) and a couple most would not expect--someone who volunteers for charity a great deal, or an ordinary person who has performed an extraordinary act of bravery. While the process wouldn't be televised, it would be similar to Stan Lee's Who Wants To Be A Superhero? in that David Kennedy would be looking for particular qualities of heroic character--courage, compassion, capacity for sacrifice, etc.--above such admittedly essential qualities as combat or technological prowess. And rather than "eliminating" a character at the end of each challenge, they would all stay in the competition to its conclusion, with the characters voting periodically for the person they believe should become the new Challenger, rather than who should leave the competition. Needless to say this could be a convention event, rather than you just deciding who should wear the battle suit as the new Challenger. Why make the hard decisions when a few dedicated role-players can do it for you? Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Well...I guess Ill be the dissenting voice. Campaigns need new inspiration or they grow stagnant. Let the Challenger mantle lay idle for awhile, and introduce an entirely new character with no entanglements. In a couple or three years you can bring back Challenger or some aspect thereof and it will seem fresh again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane_Marlowe Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I'm a fan of having someone come out of left field, unknown to Supersquad America. When supergroups click, it's often a matter of kismet, serendipity, whatever, and it isn't always the obvious person who is the best person. Why not have someone be discovered who fits the role in some way? Or perhaps someone whose powers emerged as a result of the actions of the original challenger (e.g., John Henry Irons becoming Steel after an inspiring encounter with Superman). By the way, if you value the core concept of the character as moral paragon, you should be talking about that more than about whether or not he's going to be in battle armor. I'd start looking for candidates who would take the challenger's mantle reluctantly if at all, and it would be chosen for him (or her) by the Supersquad after they see the person's contributions in the role they were born to. Perhaps the person could be tested or "challenged" by some trial that shows them exhibiting this kind of moral fortitude, and they are thus identified as the heir to the Challenger's mantle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I could also see David Kennedy seeking out someone to carry on the name (with or without the suit) as his father's legacy is very important to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted January 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Perhaps in an effort to create a successor to carry on his father's legacy, he turns to privately financing a new Super Soldier program using cybernetics to create the successor to his father's legacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger One idea I did have was to have' date=' Joey Diabello, who built and maintains David's battlesuit don the suit. While Joey would not have David's martial arts prowess (he could modify the suit to compensate), he would have a number of the scientific skills that the team lost in Fast Track. However, David met Joey while the former was a Harvard undergrad and the latter was already a MIT dropout. This implies that Joey is probably at least a year or two older than David. And since, David turns 37 in 2008, Joey is proabably 38 or 39 -- in any event, probably a little too old to be starting a superhero career. Also, Joey would be another just-short of middle-age white guy much llike David.[/quote'] Does Joey Diabello have a son? Perhaps he was aware of his father's supporting role in Challenger's career, and wants to carry on Challenger's legacy himself. He could have his dad's technical skills, or martial arts prowess like David Kennedy, or both. If David wants to start a new "super soldier" project the younger Diabello could be his first volunteer. OTOH he might steal the Challenger battlesuit to prove to his father and Kennedy that he has what it takes to be the new bearer of the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinecone Posted January 14, 2008 Report Share Posted January 14, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Thanks. Anything in particular you didn't like about the battlesuit? Hmmm. A "Challenger for the 21sst century", eh? When I think about a phrase like that, I think of something even more futuristic than a battlesuit -- like cybernetics, perhaps. Nothing in particular man...I generally dislike super suits ...exept for Iron man clones. I'd have a "Challenger for the 21st century" show up to challenge Challenger, only to find that Challenger dosen't want the job anymore. So he becomes a mentor to the angry young super who's powers seem so familiar..... Cyborg powers sound very cool to me. I'd even go for full on Nanotech. Regen, LS- Disease and Toxin (nano doctors) lot's of coolness to be had.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beauxdeigh Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Let the Challenger mantle lay idle for awhile' date=' and introduce an entirely new character with no entanglements. In a couple or three years you can bring back Challenger or some aspect thereof and it will seem fresh again.[/quote'] I'd go along with this. In the background of 2008's plot, David could be looking for a replacement. Maybe it gets mentioned in passing as a "special project" if/when the team interacts with him. Giving the mantle a year off builds anticipation for the return. However, having Joey introduce a new hero, using a modified Challenger-type suit with a different name, sounds interesting. I don't know what Joey's history with Bernie is or what kind of temperament Joey has, but, if he's all about the second (or third) chance, he might get Bernie to secretly help him work on it. Have the new suit be externally genderless and cover all skin and it becomes an interesting mystery to resolve. Who is inside and can we trust them? Doing it right, it can be a mystery even for the players to solve. I'm sure you have some characters in your stable that would be fun to have back, and this would be a great way to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted January 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger I'd go along with this. In the background of 2008's plot, David could be looking for a replacement. Maybe it gets mentioned in passing as a "special project" if/when the team interacts with him. Giving the mantle a year off builds anticipation for the return. However, having Joey introduce a new hero, using a modified Challenger-type suit with a different name, sounds interesting. I don't know what Joey's history with Bernie is or what kind of temperament Joey has, but, if he's all about the second (or third) chance, he might get Bernie to secretly help him work on it. Have the new suit be externally genderless and cover all skin and it becomes an interesting mystery to resolve. Who is inside and can we trust them? Doing it right, it can be a mystery even for the players to solve. I'm sure you have some characters in your stable that would be fun to have back, and this would be a great way to do that. Interesting thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted September 7, 2008 Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger good ideas all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted September 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2008 Re: SuperSquad America: Replacing Challenger Since this thread has risen from the dead, I figured that I should mention that the eventual replacement character was discussed here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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