Spence Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... And when you factor in the fact that the RPG community is really a "niche" community in comparison to the markets reached by most book publishing industries' date=' it's even more of a steal. In other words, Hero Games books are reasonably priced compared to the rest of the RPG market today, and very reasonably priced in comparison to how publishing costs have inflated, plus on top of all that, [b']the RPG industry as a whole is probably under-pricing their products, given the size of the market they're catering to.[/b] If the RPG industry used a pricing model more similar to other niche markets of similar size (read: if RPG players understood the real situation and were willing to pay more "reasonable" prices in an absolute sense), then I'd expect RPG books would generally cost 50-100% more than they do now for black-and-white, and possibly more than that for color... QFT! My other interest is History. Not the lame production line lockstep boring stuff you see every single day on TV. But the interesting stuff. Ever buy a book that has actual honest to G accurate deckplans that is not one of the tired and beaten to death retreads??? A book with real detail starts at $60-100 and quickly climbs higher. Just try to price a decent non-mainstream history book at 5th’s page count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted February 25, 2008 Report Share Posted February 25, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... The arguments justifying the cost of The Hero System Rules are many and most excellent, but Heroic Avatar makes a good point: to a lot of people the PERCEPTION is that Hero costs a lot, and not everyone has the good sense to come here to be educated about inflation and such. Even though DnD costs more to have than Hero does, it manages to make it feel less, at least by some lights. Once you've got one book you might want to buy the rest, and even if you don't, at least you've shelled out for that one book. Whilst I don't want to see us go the PHB/DMG/MM route, if that makes economic sense for the company, it has to be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Desmarais Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Whilst I don't want to see us go the PHB/DMG/MM route, if that makes economic sense for the company, it has to be considered. Although this does sound kind of like the direction Hero is leaning for 6th edition (splitting the rules out into multiple core books ala GURPs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentoth Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Since money is an issue I would recommend waiting until HERO 6th ed comes out. Then you have the option of buying a set of rules that won't be obsolete if you want to or you can buy HERO 5th ed cheap in the aftermaket as the core won't be worth much since it will be obsolete. Either way I would wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Since money is an issue I would recommend waiting until HERO 6th ed comes out. Then you have the option of buying a set of rules that won't be obsolete if you want to or you can buy HERO 5th ed cheap in the aftermaket as the core won't be worth much since it will be obsolete. Either way I would wait.I think waiting 18 months is a bit of an overreaction, personally. If you want to get the game, get the game. It's not like 5th Ed. will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on 6th Ed.'s release date. By Pentoth's argument, you shouldn't (for example) buy Madden NFL Football 2008 (or whatever) even when it's brand new, because there'll be a new one out in less than 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Querysphinx Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Even though DnD costs more to have than Hero does, it manages to make it feel less, at least by some lights. Once you've got one book you might want to buy the rest, and even if you don't, at least you've shelled out for that one book. Whilst I don't want to see us go the PHB/DMG/MM route, if that makes economic sense for the company, it has to be considered. Feh. One thing I have always loved about Champions, now Hero, is you only need one book (and a little common sense) to play it. Splitting the book into the gaming artifact called the Game-Of-Many-Parts would totally kill that appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Feh. One thing I have always loved about Champions' date=' now Hero, is you only need one book (and a little common sense) to play it. Splitting the book into the gaming artifact called the Game-Of-Many-Parts would totally kill that appeal.[/quote']Exaggerate much? Core rules in two volumes instead of one somehow equals "Game-Of-Many-Parts?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patriot Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... I am surprised, you have all over looked one very important point about the 5 ed book...... It offers 6 PD, and is bullet resistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heroic Avatar Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Thanks for all the responses... Part of the problem is just culture shock, like a lot of people on the Champions boards I use to play the game a long time ago, and 20 dollars was a big deal back then too... First off I thought Hero Games had been closed for years since I had not heard anything about it and secondly I expected the editions to be pretty similar (boy was i ever wrong). I think that I realized the price was going to go up, but I was thinking $35 dollars for the Rules book tops, so when I saw $50 dollars plus shipping and handling... my thought process was...: Steve Long has gone out of his farking mind! I want them to bring back the original owners, even if the books fell apart a lot... What the hell is wrong with this man? I thought he was cool... Get the core Rulebook he says, get the universe books he says, and the Champions genre books he says... WHO THE HELL DOES HE THINK I AM DONALD FREAKING TRUMP? But to be fair there was a lot more cursing involved and some thoughts of going to a con having him sign a copy for purchase and then beating him to death with it.... After reading this thread I no longer feel he should be beaten to death, just until he goes into a coma. And if he does not think he should be beaten period, he can always PM me and get my address so that he can send me a free signed copy of the Core Rule set... I'm just sayin'... Thanks for the responses and baring the Impossibility that Steve will send me the core ruleset to get my addiction started again (Please?), I will purchase the core book next month and then try to buy a supplement or bundle ever other month.. I'll be eating a lot of canned food and my hamster will die of starvation.. but a geeks gotta do what a geeks gotta do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TygerLily Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... I am surprised, you have all over looked one very important point about the 5 ed book...... It offers 6 PD, and is bullet resistant. Ok I heard references to this but never saw it. Too funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... I think that I realized the price was going to go up' date=' but I was thinking $35 dollars for the Rules book tops, so when I saw $50 dollars plus shipping and handling... my thought process was...:[/quote'] Hero Games doesn't charge shipping/handling if you order from the online store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCUBA Hero Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... While I agree that 5er is a good gaming value, and in-line or less expensive than other gaming systems... ... folks, the OP is living on $750 a month! That's below the 2008 HHS poverty guideline for a single person. link So, he's considering plunking down a *considerable* amount (for him) on a freaking gaming core book! Maybe it's worth it to him, maybe not... but realize that this is not a trivial decision. My recomendation is to purchase Sidekick for $15, and see where it goes from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... While I agree that 5er is a good gaming value, and in-line or less expensive than other gaming systems... ... folks, the OP is living on $750 a month! That's below the 2008 HHS poverty guideline for a single person. link So, he's considering plunking down a *considerable* amount (for him) on a freaking gaming core book! Maybe it's worth it to him, maybe not... but realize that this is not a trivial decision. My recomendation is to purchase Sidekick for $15, and see where it goes from there. I don't think we ever said it wasn't a major decision or investment of ones funds. We're just pointing out that the books price is not out of line for what you're getting. Though getting Sidekick (even just the PDF at 7$) is a worthy buy one is strapped for cash and 50$ is a major investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentoth Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... I think waiting 18 months is a bit of an overreaction' date=' personally. If you want to get the game, get the game. It's not like 5th Ed. will turn into a pumpkin at midnight on 6th Ed.'s release date. By Pentoth's argument, you shouldn't (for example) buy Madden NFL Football 2008 (or whatever) even when it's brand new, because there'll be a new one out in less than 18 months. [/quote'] Normally I agree with your statement. In the past when I wanted a wrestling game I waited for the new one and bought the old version cheap. When I had the money to burn I would buy the new one. He did say that money was an issue and that is why I answered the way I did. As he pointed out he is living on 750.00 a month. If I encouraged him otherwise I would feel it would be irresponsible for me to answer any other way. I have lived off that kind of money. It is really tough. My scenario give the OP much time to save for a new book if he wants to go with 6 ed or be in a position to get 5th ed at a bargain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silbeg Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... I would also definitely agree that getting the Sidekick PDF would be the best thing for the OP. $7 of goodness (which probably does contain all of the non-genre stuff that the BBB had, save for the above noted exceptions). Then, perhaps, the Champions genre book, if he really thinks he needs it. Of course, with Sidekick in his digital hands, and his old print material from 4E, he could probably have enough to keep him going for 18 months until 6E. Then, saving only $10/month, he should have enough for both 6E books, and the Champions book... I should think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heroic Avatar Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... I would also definitely agree that getting the Sidekick PDF would be the best thing for the OP. $7 of goodness (which probably does contain all of the non-genre stuff that the BBB had, save for the above noted exceptions). Then, perhaps, the Champions genre book, if he really thinks he needs it. Of course, with Sidekick in his digital hands, and his old print material from 4E, he could probably have enough to keep him going for 18 months until 6E. Then, saving only $10/month, he should have enough for both 6E books, and the Champions book... I should think. I no longer have any printed materials, I said I USE to have all the 4E books.(lost in a fire) I thought about getting sidekick but here is where the hard choice is: Its like buying one roll of toilet paper when you know your going to eventually buy a 24 pack. If I purchase the sidekick (not in PDF form, I go to the hospital a lot) thats 15 dollars I could have put towards the Core book. 15 dollars on a redundant book that I won't use if I have the core book. Its all well and good to say 'get this now, then get the bigger one later', but in my situation you have to think in the longterm, that 15 dollars could be spent on food, or a movie, or a taxi cab ride, or even another book I want. It comes down to economics of scale. Do I buy the small pack at the grocery store, or do I go to "Super Size Wholesaler' and get the large jumbo size that I will get use out of for a very long time... which will be the more economic in the long run? I would say the Core Rulebook.(since 6E is a year away, and I think I can come up with the scratch by then to get a copy ), would be the better all around purchase and more useful in the long run... Ok now I'm depressed about having to think about my budget LOL, I'll be back a bit later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TygerLily Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Ok now I'm depressed about having to think about my budget LOL' date=' I'll be back a bit later! [/color'] Budgets can be depressing! Believe me, I get depressed over ours at least monthly But at the same time, they show you're being wise. I'm a big pro-budget person, so bear with me. I *know* you want the book now. It's boys and their toys and all. (Girls likes the new toys too, by the way. ) BUT the 5th edition book is not going to feed you for this month, pay your rent, or cover a taxi ride to a doctor's appointment. So *please* I beg you, figure out the budget on paper, cover all the necessaries first: food, transportation, medicine, utilities, shelter and clothing. Then see if you have anything left over. If so and it's enough for 5th Ed, buy it. If not, then sit the money aside for next month and add a bit more to it. In the meantime, do you have a Half Price Books or maybe even a public library that might have a copy of the book? I haven't looked, but would ebay or half.com have a copy for a reduced price? (Sorry Steve/Darren, I know you guys want sales, but I don't want the latest man to declare his love for me to starve! *hehe*) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phookz Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Thanks for all the responses... But to be fair there was a lot more cursing involved and some thoughts of going to a con having him sign a copy for purchase and then beating him to death with it.... After reading this thread I no longer feel he should be beaten to death, just until he goes into a coma. And if he does not think he should be beaten period, he can always PM me and get my address so that he can send me a free signed copy of the Core Rule set... I'm just sayin'... Am I the only one that finds this offensive? I'm sure this is just in jest, but I think it's also a bit over the top; you've basically just threatened someone, and over the price of a book to boot. I recommend you calm down, change your font and color scheme, and save up for the game if it is something you want to do. The price is the price - nobody is forcing you to buy it. It is expensive, but its a big book - almost 600 pages, and this isn't the '90s anymore. If that's too much, Sidekick is a nice compromise, and you can always graduate to 6E when it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazza Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Am I the only one that finds this offensive? I'm sure this is just in jest' date=' but I think it's also a bit over the top; you've basically just threatened someone, and over the price of a book to boot. [/quote'] No you are not the only one. and not just anyone, one of the owners as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysando Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Hello all, Some or many of us probably have copies of the 5th ed, ie the non-revised version, lying around, that we no longer use because we plumped for the Revised Edition of 5th ed. Would it make sense for one of us to send Heroic Avatar one of these copies to get him started, or would that confuse matters further for him to have the "pre-revised" edition? That way he could save his $ for one of the genre books or something else, and learn the system. Or would he just have to unlearn too much when he finally has the $ for Fred? IE, would you recommend giving the regular ed. of 5th to a newbie to learn with? My skillz with HERO were bad before, during and after both books, so I have no idea..... ntb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heroic Avatar Posted February 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... *sigh* OK I do apologize about my joke, I really did not think it was in bad taste, especially due to the context it was used in. Also as I said before Mr. Long spoke to me via pm's and a part of my joke was a bit of an inside joke because we spoke about vigilantism and violance to a certain degree. If I offended anyone, I;m sorry, I really don't think it was in that bad of taste. As for the offer of the book, please do not send me any books or money to get any. I will not give you my address or name. I was not trying to beg, or ask for handouts of any kind. I was merely stating my suprise at the price of the books and mentioning my situation. I thank you for the kindness and I apologise for any trouble I caused, I will not be posting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... HA, please do not stop posting. Nobody is saying you should leave, just pointing out that the tone you adopted could be misread and offense taken over it. You've apologised, and that should be the end of it. If everyone left these forums after making a gaff and being called on it, our community would be a heckuva lot thinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... Am I the only one that finds this offensive? Nope. It is up to the mods whether he is going to be allowed back into the forums. At this point in time, he is banned and I strongly suspect that it is going to remain that way. So folks are clear: threats of physical violence to any forum member will not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted February 26, 2008 Report Share Posted February 26, 2008 Re: I had a descussion with Steve about buying some Hero's books... No worries, folx, no worries. I took it as a joke. I've asked Simon to go ahead and let HA back into the playpen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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