Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Mentor

I am quite proud of Trebuchet's willing ness to play Zl'f and play her so well. You guys have no idea what a departure this type of character is for Trebuchet. His most famous PC was a Power Armor guy, named Ranger, with every type of defense built into the suit and the highest PD and ED (combining armor and force fields to cover those nasty NNDs, you know) of any character in any of the campaigns I have played in or seen. The original omni defense dude. Dr. Destroyer might have gotten Ranger's attention.

I retired Ranger about 1986, so long ago I never even designed a 4th Edition version of him. His defenses were as follows:

 

62 PD (50 Hardened)

58 ED (50 Hardened)

15 Flash Defense (All Hardened)

25 Pts Power Defense

10 Pts Lack of Weakness

 

EDIT: And I forgot his 20 points of Ego Defense

 

He was fun to play, but I don't think the other characters who were getting hit with "Ranger-buster" attacks were having quite as much fun. The 5th Edition version of him I recently designed has "only" a 52 PD.

 

Zl'f is my penance for running Ranger.

[Broblawsky]

62 PD (50 Hardened)

58 ED (50 Hardened)

15 Flash Defense (All Hardened)

25 Pts Power Defense

10 Pts Lack of Weakness

 

Christ almighty, it looks like someone converted the Overlord's power armor to HERO system...how could you afford that monstrosity?

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Broblawsky

Christ almighty, it looks like someone converted the Overlord's power armor to HERO system...how could you afford that monstrosity?

Well, he was only a SPD 4, DEX 20 character for starters. He had a 70 STR, 12d6 EB, and 25" of Flight. A few Enhanced Senses to round it out. And everything was built into his powered armor OIF. Without the armor he was just an ordinary joe. When I retired him he had 125 XP.

[Starlord]

Just FYI.

 

Fans of Treb's character Zl'f might be interested to know that he has also created an excellent detailed bio of the character. I have it and have read it. She has an interesting and well-written history. It also exhaustively details her superpowered abilities in 'real-world' terms ala The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

 

He might post it here, or send it to those who ask nicely.

 

[Trebuchet]

Thanks for the kind words, Starlord. I'd forgotten I'd sent you a copy of that.

 

It's probably too long to post here; it's 40K long.

[Trebuchet]

Just in case anyone's interested, I'll post Zl'fs background as a text file. That should keep the size down.

 

Anyone interested in reading my short story about her first fight just drop me a note and I'll gladly e-mail you a copy. I think it's pretty good, but I may be biased.

[championsguru]

In the 20 or so years I've played with my group we've fought Eurostar about 10 different times and won 7 of them.

 

The early version was above average power, the 4th edition version were really powerful compared to base characters so a starting group really had no chance of beating them. The 5th edition version went back to above average and can be beaten with team work and a little luck by a group of base 350 characters.

 

Da Guru

[Starlord]

I preferred Eurostar at 8 members, I think they've been depowered a bit too much. They aren't as fearsome as they used to be.

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by championsguru

In the 20 or so years I've played with my group we've fought Eurostar about 10 different times and won 7 of them.

 

The early version was above average power, the 4th edition version were really powerful compared to base characters so a starting group really had no chance of beating them. The 5th edition version went back to above average and can be beaten with team work and a little luck by a group of base 350 characters.

I think this was the first time I've faced Eurostar since I started playing Champions in 1982; although it's possible I've faced them in the past and simply forgotten. I certainly haven't in my current 11 year old campaign.

 

I can't say I necessarily agree their 5th Edition incarnation is relatively less powerful than the 4th Edition version on a character per character basis. They weren't at full strength, but neither were we. Certainly their current mix is a bit different, but Fuermacher is IMHO a bit tougher than Bora. Scorpia is about even with Pantera combat-wise. Eurostar may be relatively less powerful compared to 350 point base PCs than they were to 250 point base characters, but most campaigns have damage and defense caps anyway which render the extra 100 points less relevant than they would appear (Our campaign doesn't, but we self-limit ourselves pretty well.). I don't think Eurostar was ever intended to be opponents for starting characters. They've always been intended to be the "big gun" of supervillain teams in the Champions universe; somebody you take on after you've been around a while.

 

In any case, our team MidGuard narrowly beat Eurostar just as you said: With teamwork and a little luck. Considering we had no idea they were involved and our team virtually walked into a Eurostar ambush, I'd say we did pretty well. Heck, we only sent half our team over to check out the freighter Eurostar was hiding on; my character was prepping our flying sub for the return trip to our base in Norway. If our team's teleporting demibrick Sidestep hadn't been with her in the Sea Raptor, the other team members would have been unconscious or dead long before my character was able to get there under her own power by swimming. That freighter was a full kilometer away (500"). It would have taken my character over 3 Turns to swim that far non-combat. That's an eternity in Champions.

[Lord Liaden]

One nice thing about the larger number of members in the 4E Eurostar was that the GM could choose the opponents that the PCs would be up against in a given scenario, tailoring them to give the heroes a good fight without necessarily overwhelming them - unless the GM wanted to for plot purposes, in which case he could bring the whole team together.

 

I say keep the current lineup and also bring back Bora, Pantera, White Flame and the Whip. With operations going on all over Europe, it would make sense for Eurostar to have the capacity to send multiple teams to various targets simultaneously. Not to mention that Eurostar is after all taking on all of Europe, its governments and armies as well as its superheroes; they could use all the firepower they can get.

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

I say keep the current lineup and also bring back Bora, Pantera, White Flame and the Whip. With operations going on all over Europe, it would make sense for Eurostar to have the capacity to send multiple teams to various targets simultaneously. Not to mention that Eurostar is after all taking on all of Europe, its governments and armies as well as its superheroes; they could use all the firepower they can get.

 

That seems like a great idea!

[Zed-F]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

Just in case anyone's interested, I'll post Zl'fs background as a text file. That should keep the size down.

 

Anyone interested in reading my short story about her first fight just drop me a note and I'll gladly e-mail you a copy. I think it's pretty good, but I may be biased.

 

Thanks, that is helpful. I have put together a fairly detailed origin story and powers summary for my current character but this will help me expand on that. Will send you a note shortly regarding that story you mentioned.

[Kirby]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

Wow, thanks for the link, Treb!

 

For those on this thread who aren't subscribed to Jane's Superhumans, I'm pasting my little fight with Eurostar.

 

"I was in a [4th Ed 250+ points] campaign where we faced them and my character was the skilled normal with a futuristic weapon. Durak had one NPC and was winding up for a haymaker, while Fiacho was beating down a PC. My character switched his 'pistol' setting to "Big Bertha" which was a 4d6 RKA. I debated on who to save, and fearing that Durak would kill the NPC, I went for a head shot on him, and rolled a 4. I ended up saving the NPC (though we were beat down), but I wish I had hit Fiacho instead; it would have come close to killing him (since he had no resist ED in 4th Ed). Oh well, that was then."

 

Our same party also faced Durak alone during a European vacation. I can't remember if it was before or after this encounter, though I think we got the better of him (not bad for five PCs + 1 GM PC).

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

One nice thing about the larger number of members in the 4E Eurostar was that the GM could choose the opponents that the PCs would be up against in a given scenario, tailoring them to give the heroes a good fight without necessarily overwhelming them - unless the GM wanted to for plot purposes, in which case he could bring the whole team together.

 

I say keep the current lineup and also bring back Bora, Pantera, White Flame and the Whip. With operations going on all over Europe, it would make sense for Eurostar to have the capacity to send multiple teams to various targets simultaneously. Not to mention that Eurostar is after all taking on all of Europe, its governments and armies as well as its superheroes; they could use all the firepower they can get.

 

I'd leave out White Flame...only because his powers are very close to those of Feurmacher. Seems pointless to have both. Bringing the others back would be fine.

 

Rob

[Enforcer84]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

I retired Ranger about 1986, so long ago I never even designed a 4th Edition version of him. His defenses were as follows:

 

62 PD (50 Hardened)

58 ED (50 Hardened)

15 Flash Defense (All Hardened)

25 Pts Power Defense

10 Pts Lack of Weakness

 

EDIT: And I forgot his 20 points of Ego Defense

 

He was fun to play, but I don't think the other characters who were getting hit with "Ranger-buster" attacks were having quite as much fun. The 5th Edition version of him I recently designed has "only" a 52 PD.

 

Zl'f is my penance for running Ranger.

Heh. One of my buds once made a mage (Nilrem if you look at my HERO aday thread) and his original concept looked like a tall Jawa...

Anyway he had a 40 pt vpp, cosmic, only to create defenses on the fly....

we didn't have "special" powers back in the day, so he would just have any defense he needed.

[Kirby]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

I'd leave out White Flame...only because his powers are very close to those of Feurmacher. Seems pointless to have both. Bringing the others back would be fine.

I prefer the 4th Ed Eurostar. Actually, I think I prefer lots of the 4th Ed characters to the 5th Ed. Come to think of it, I'm really ticked at the continuity difference between 4th & 5th Ed. While I like the update on the game (and the 350 point style), there are many 4th Ed things I miss. They are:

• The Seven Horsemen
  
• VOICE
  
• The Protectors
  
• San Angelo: City of Heroes setting
  
• 4th Ed Eurostar
  
• 4th Ed VIPER
  
• Raven
  
• Zodiac Conspiracy
  
• The Olympians
  

 

Well, those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

[Kirby]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

What I had planned on doing in my last Champions campaign, and may still do in my campaign I'm about to start in a couple of weeks, is eventually have a (4th Ed) Eurostar show up in San Angelo or San Francisco and attack the Protectors. After a turn or two, I would have Anarchy show up to ambush Eurostar. I also have had plans for VOICE and The Seven Horseman to confront Eurostar also. Along with the PCs thrown in there somewhere.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

I prefer the 4th Ed Eurostar. Actually, I think I prefer lots of the 4th Ed characters to the 5th Ed. Come to think of it, I'm really ticked at the continuity difference between 4th & 5th Ed. While I like the update on the game (and the 350 point style), there are many 4th Ed things I miss. They are:

• The Seven Horsemen
  
• VOICE
  
• The Protectors
  
• San Angelo: City of Heroes setting
  
• 4th Ed Eurostar
  
• 4th Ed VIPER
  
• Raven
  
• Zodiac Conspiracy
  
• The Olympians
  

 

Well, those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

I agree with most of that list and would like to add Dr. McQuark and the Blood to it, as well as the info from Strikeforce

[Enforcer84]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

Heck I'd add the Geodesics and Deathstroke...

Although I don't think the Geodesics actually made it into 4th edition...

[Kirby]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

Heck I'd add the Geodesics and Deathstroke...

Although I don't think the Geodesics actually made it into 4th edition...

Well, the nice thing about 4th Ed was that it seemed to keep the 1st-3rd Ed characters around as well.

 

Which reminds me that I'd like to see the shape-shifting alien race known as the Masq.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

Bora was the big loss to the 5e Eurostar lineup. She was not only quite powerful offensively in her own right but was also Eurostar's escape route (Grab her all teammates with AoE TK and vamoose!). Scorpiaa is about as good in a fight as Pantera was, and to my mind fits Eurostar's theme better. The Whip is no loss; he was a yawner as a villain. Of course one less member means less tactical flexibility.

 

Blackjack, who ran Eurostar for this scenario, despises the way Fiacho is built and has totally rebuilt him for our campaign. As I understand it Fiacho is now much less a bionic supervillain and much more a mastermind. I guess we'll find out just how much he's been rebuilt the next time we face Eurostar.

[JmOz]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

The thing I liked about 4th was that it had that organic feeling that Marvel/DC have, you know where it is obviously written by a hundred different people with a hundred different takes on things. Nothing quite fits right, but at the same time it makes some weird sense all its own.

 

Now we have a world in some ways similar to the Ultimate line from marvel where a real effort has been made to keep things consistent, which makes more sense but looses a type of magic the other had...

[Kirby]

Re: Woo Hoo! We whipped Eurostar!

 

Scorpiaa is about as good in a fight as Pantera was' date=' and to my mind fits Eurostar's theme better.[/quote']

WHAT??? Die! Die! Slanderer!

 

-Ahem- Okay, Pantera had 7 Spd, 33 DEX, Find Weakness 14-, a combined 4d6 HKA, and +8 Telescopic vision range levels, coupled with +3 enhanced vision she could basically sniper Find Weakness before attacking.

 

Scorpia is 5 Spd, 21 Dex, with 4d6 HKA AP.

 

Also, I've had PCs who have beaten Scorpia seveal times (combined). I think we only beat Pantera once. "Blah," I say, "blah!" Besides, Pantera had this strange animalistic attractiveness to her that... wait, I said too much.