Hermit Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 "Pushing your players' buttons" is something that every GM is warned against doing too lightly. While it's one thing to give folks what they want, or stories they can really get into, you can push it too far. I'm not advocating that... but I confess, I'm curious. Are there any villains in the Champsverse that you personally find real easy to loathe? Are there some that you look FORWARD to having your character beat up on, even if your character him/herself wouldn't? For instance, while it's not 'loathing', one of my female players looks forward to tromping Bulldozer no matter WHAT character she's playing. His attitude just annoys, and I guess it is very gratifying to her to stomp him into paste. Can't say I blame her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 That one's easy. Nebula. To my mind she's the most loathsome villain in CKC in my opinion, just for her willingness to banish somebody to a hell dimension for the most minor infractions. "You crossed against the lights off to hell you go!" ZAP "Littering, that's an offence! TO THE HELL DIMENSION!" ZAP "You dare express an opinion counter to my own and defend those spitters on sidewalks? False hero, TO THE HELL DIMENSION!" ZAP Everything about her just screams: CHARACTER WHO NEEDS TO DIE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted August 24, 2003 Report Share Posted August 24, 2003 I find it difficult to hate villains; most of the better written ones I quite like, and the poorly written ones just leave me cold. That said, fighting against Demon, Dark Seraph and Black Paladin is great fun. Tallisman or Morningstar from the new books would be fun as well. Nothing quite like a villain who proudly declaims "I'm Evil with a capital E! I steal candy from babies and pee on parades! Kittens and little bunny rabbits of the world fear my power! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by OddHat I find it difficult to hate villains; most of the better written ones I quite like, and the poorly written ones just leave me cold. That said, fighting against Demon, Dark Seraph and Black Paladin is great fun. Tallisman or Morningstar from the new books would be fun as well. Nothing quite like a villain who proudly declaims "I'm Evil with a capital E! I steal candy from babies and pee on parades! Kittens and little bunny rabbits of the world fear my power! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!" Black Paladin wasdefinitely the villain in the CU that my old PC Thundrax loved to hate. He provided numerous good, hard, close fights, and his personality (ancient, arrogant magical bully) clashed well with Thundrax's (modern teenaged boy scout). Bulldozer 's designed to be someone female players will enjoy showing up, and has been that way since his creation. After one session, my PCs *despised* Black Harlequin. Scott Bennie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by OddHat Tallisman or Morningstar from the new books would be fun as well. The supernatural villains do register fairly strongly on the nasty-o-meter. My characters tend to have a particular dislike of DEMON. Having said all that, though, Talisman has a rather attractive "bad girl" thing going for her. Which raises the question: which supervillains would your characters like to make friends with, or even date? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by assault The supernatural villains do register fairly strongly on the nasty-o-meter. My characters tend to have a particular dislike of DEMON. Having said all that, though, Talisman has a rather attractive "bad girl" thing going for her. Which raises the question: which supervillains would your characters like to make friends with, or even date? Alan Gamarye: "I decline to answer on the grounds that my current girlfriend will do me severe bodily harm." Twilight: "Ditto." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Twilight That one's easy. Nebula. I actually dislike her so much that I would never run her up against my players. My gf is going to run in her first game this Monday. I am a huge pro-wrestling fan and my gf despises it, so I'm hoping to use Bulldozer to great effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by winterhawk I actually dislike her so much that I would never run her up against my players. My gf is going to run in her first game this Monday. I am a huge pro-wrestling fan and my gf despises it, so I'm hoping to use Bulldozer to great effect. The only way I would run Nebula in my campaign is to start a murder mystery in order to discover who killed her. The characters I play would likely to busy celebrating her demise to assist however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernaut Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 A related question: Has anyone ever tailor a PC for the express purpuse of giving a specific villain their just desserts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted August 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Cybernaut A related question: Has anyone ever tailor a PC for the express purpuse of giving a specific villain their just desserts? If you mean mechanics wise, wherre he targets vulnerabities etc? No, that always felt like cheating to me...but I've been tempted. Taking someone down period? Sure, many good heroes can have "Hunts ______" as a psychological limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Hermit If you mean mechanics wise, wherre he targets vulnerabities etc? No, that always felt like cheating to me...but I've been tempted. I'm kind of guilty of this. I've used two vampire hunting mages (one Priest, one cat posted in the Characters thread) with low-power magic specifically tailored against Demons and the Undead. Never done it for a single specific foe though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by OddHat I'm kind of guilty of this. I've used two vampire hunting mages (one Priest, one cat posted in the Characters thread) with low-power magic specifically tailored against Demons and the Undead. It seems that would be logical if the character has trained to hunt vampires, demons or what have you. A werewolf hunter would logically carry silver bullets in the expectation of success in the hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonsong Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Yet another Nebula hater here! I loather her so much that no matter what any PC ever did to her, no matter how horrific, no matter how gross, vile or discussing they got; I would still reward there actions. (And I promise you some of my players can really go over the top) No other character right up has ever rubbed me the wrong way quite as bad as Nebula; and I have been gaming for a long time. AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGG….. I should start an Anti-Nebula Support Group. A.N.S.G. for short. We can sit around and discuss various ways to kill her in the most painful ways possible. Hummmm. Maybe I should just relax a little? Maybe I should see a doctor? Later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Originally posted by Cybernaut A related question: Has anyone ever tailor a PC for the express purpuse of giving a specific villain their just desserts? Once, but I didn't know it at the time. I was joining a new group and asked what sort of chracter would fit in well with he group. One of the players suggested an energy projector with specific special effect. It sounded fine so I whipped it up. Evidently the player had figured out the group's nemesis' weakness. And the GM didn't want to give anything away so he didn't object. My introduction to the villian was after a battle where he quickly mopped up the rest of the team. My character arrived late and saw the villian preparing to 'destroy the city'. Realizing I would only get one shot, I used a one shot super blast, pushed it, and targeted the villian's head. Very quickly I realized several things: 1- The villian's primary defense was a force field. 2- The villian was terribly vulnerable to my attack. 3- He wasn't going to be destroying the city, or anything else, ever again. Not precisely the effect I was looking for. I did get to buy off my "ineffective in combat" reputaion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackjack Posted August 25, 2003 Report Share Posted August 25, 2003 Which raises the question: which supervillains would your characters like to make friends with, or even date? Alan [/b] My 550-year old wizard has had an on-again, off-again romantic relationship with Cateran. He's far too disciplined and orderly for her, and he doesn't approve of her thieving and freebooting, but their common ground does tend to bring them together... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christougher Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Cybernaut A related question: Has anyone ever tailor a PC for the express purpuse of giving a specific villain their just desserts? Custom made hero for the express purposes of confronting a specific villain. Sort of explains Hope to a T. The PC's had been confronting the Nine(?) Horsemen off and on for a year or two real-time, and coming up short. To make a long story short, I traded out characters to bring in Hope who was built to confront them. She was from a future where the Horsemen took over, and sacrificed her as a baby. She was resurrected, and the ceremony brought back *all* the souls of the Horsemen's victims, imbuing her with that power. She was then sent back in time to try and prevent the Horsemen's ascension. Most abusive character I've ever put to paper. Had defenses against the Horsemen's funky attacks, healing, and an Affects Desolid HKA. With her first XP, she bought a flash attack since the Horsemen took BODY from flashes. She's still one of the best characters I've ever played; daughter of one of my & another player's characters, and has a mad crush on a third, which everyone except him has noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Bartman My introduction to the villian was after a battle where he quickly mopped up the rest of the team. My character arrived late and saw the villian preparing to 'destroy the city'. Realizing I would only get one shot, I used a one shot super blast, pushed it, and targeted the villian's head. Very quickly I realized several things: 1- The villian's primary defense was a force field. 2- The villian was terribly vulnerable to my attack. 3- He wasn't going to be destroying the city, or anything else, ever again. Not precisely the effect I was looking for. I did get to buy off my "ineffective in combat" reputaion though. Hopefully, you didn't have to deal with a Code Vs Killing disadvantage. Mind you, I can't imagine anyone with a code vs killing striking at an unfamiliar target with full power, pushed, to a vital area to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Oh, I thought you were talking about my players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 I'd add the following to the list of villains I am not keen on and thus unlikely to run. Takofanes. Samhain Istha'Whatever Tyrannon. And add me to the anti-Nebula list. Ex-friend of mine also did this with home brew villains. They were either too powerful or he just kept using them even when it was obvious that it was just annoying the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Hugh Neilson Hopefully, you didn't have to deal with a Code Vs Killing disadvantage. Mind you, I can't imagine anyone with a code vs killing striking at an unfamiliar target with full power, pushed, to a vital area to begin with. I didn't. The character wasn't a casual killer but he didn't have the specific disadvantage either. And I, the player, honestly had no idea that the attack was going to be fatal. It was a 5D6 RKA in a campaign where the average attack was 12DCs. And the villian had been throwing around 18DC attacks. I was only trying to get the x5 stun multiplier, hoping to knock him unconcious. He had shrugged off attacks that had done around 25 body (the brick's pushed haymaker). So I never even thought that the 18 or so body from the RKA was going to do much of anything. What I didn't expect was that he was going to have his primary defenses turned off, leaving him with only a little bit of rDef. Nor did I expect to roll quite so well. Nor did I expect him to have the vulnerability. I think when everything was said and done and all the multipliers were totaled I did about 80 Body and 200 Stun. It turned out to be the character's defining moment. He certainly never shot anyone with a full power blast again, unless he had already found his 8-10 DC attacks to be completely ineffectual. I think I only used it twice more in the year the campaign lasted. And the GM made me spend my next 15 pts of experience on Presence to represent my new reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Bartman And the GM made me spend my next 15 pts of experience on Presence to represent my new reputation. Why wouldn't he make you spend points on a Reputation? An alien crash landing on Earth, an otherdimensional monster or anyone else with no knowledge of this event wouldn't be any more impressed, would they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mastermind Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 That's easy... Dark Seraph and The Crowns of Krim. None are redeemable and they are hard to beat. As a GM I try and make them commit acts that the characters despise. For example: At the scence of a ritual slaughter, the Crowns left a message for the Team written in blood. It read: "Legion Extreme could not save us" The players and thus their characters were sickened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Hugh Neilson Why wouldn't he make you spend points on a Reputation? An alien crash landing on Earth, an otherdimensional monster or anyone else with no knowledge of this event wouldn't be any more impressed, would they? This was 4th Ed. The only Reputation was a disad. Presence was the best way to replicate the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Cybernaut A related question: Has anyone ever tailor a PC for the express purpuse of giving a specific villain their just desserts? Well....My old character of Centurion did have three varient armors specifically designed to fight Viper in general and VF 1 and VF 2 in particular. But they came about after I'd been playing him for a year or two as I recall. That's the closest that I've ever come. And let me join the chorus against Nebula and say that if I were still playing I would have definately come up with something to deal with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed-F Posted August 26, 2003 Report Share Posted August 26, 2003 Since Nebula appears to be so generally loathed, would someone care to enlighten those of us who are supplement-poor as to who she is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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