Steve Long Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool I love LOVE the index. I know that may sound a bit odd, but it covers everything and in a game as rich as Hero it is a godsend. Oh man... I'm gonna haveta redo the index... across two books. As we sometimes say in WoW, /crai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Disadvantages - the story potential alone in this aspect of the system is awesome. I should've mentioned that too. Coming (like so many of us) from a D&D background, the concept of things that made the character weaker to contribute to overall game play was an amazing eye-opener. These days that sort of thing is taken for granted, but back in 1981 I think it was pretty revolutionary for many gamers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Oh, and perhaps not strictly Hero per se, but I've come to love the members of the Champions Universe. Over a decade of playing I've come to enjoy seeing Black Paladin, Ankylosaur and the rest of the gang turn up. They're like old friends at this point. That's why I'm particularly excited by the release structure for the 6E villain books, as by releasing a giant slew at once it enlarges the base pool of villains that will see more universal play, rather than only releasing a few core villains at the start (though honestly I still hope to see supplemental villain books as well, because I can't get enough of them). Yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to writing those books, updating the old favorites, incorporating whatever new coolness Cryptic has concocted, and perhaps adding a few new guys myself. Also to writing the new Bestiary, that will be a major kick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted April 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Did you know that there was a period of several years where you could go to any random convention, and find as many Hero players as D&D players, sometimes more? These days, thanks to our truly awesome corps of volunteer GMs, we routinely have more sessions of HERO-based games being run at Origins and GenCon than any other rules system except for D&D. I don't mean occasionally -- I mean literally, both cons, year after year for the past five years or so. 80, 90, 100 officially scheduled games run over the course of the four-day con. It's a major smorgasbord for the HERO fan. And for me and Darren and the gang, we get the fun of having fans come by the booth over the course of the show to tell us how much fun they had in so-and-so game (and to spend the discount coupons we hand out to every game). Some of them come back year after year to play in ongoing games with the same GM. It's incredibly cool; I only wish more Hero fans could come to the big cons and take part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool These days' date=' thanks to our truly awesome corps of volunteer GMs, we routinely have more sessions of HERO-based games being run at Origins and GenCon than [i']any[/i] other rules system except for D&D. I don't mean occasionally -- I mean literally, both cons, year after year for the past five years or so. 80, 90, 100 officially scheduled games run over the course of the four-day con. It's a major smorgasbord for the HERO fan. And for me and Darren and the gang, we get the fun of having fans come by the booth over the course of the show to tell us how much fun they had in so-and-so game (and to spend the discount coupons we hand out to every game). Some of them come back year after year to play in ongoing games with the same GM. It's incredibly cool; I only wish more Hero fans could come to the big cons and take part. *looks in wallet and pulls out lint* Damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manic Typist Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Cinematic Realism. Toolkit. Lack of Absolutes. Distinctive Features. Skills. ´nuff said. Rolling Low.... except on damage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool -SPD This is one of the first things I liked, it's always attracted my love. I really do like this about the system. -separation of Stun and Body; Well, yah, I like it, and I'd like to add the separation of Normal vs. Killing attacks to that also. I know a lot of folk don't like it, but it really works in my brain. One of the things that took me away from Ninja's and Superspies, I got tired of the HUGE SDC that a guy could develop while having a paper HP value, but you could fire a full burst off a .50 cal. at a dude and still not whittle down to HP... In Hero, you could still do "HP" damage, and "SDC" while still doing a serious amount of damage, or defending a serious amount of damage. -"No limit" Character build-ability (I don't even know if that's a word); I love just sitting down and building, that's why I love to GM in the game. Like a buddy from my steampunk game, "I could never have build a survivable and fun mechanic/ inventor in D&D." -Knockback/ Knockdown; seriously, the first time I fired a shotgun and threw someone through a window, I was in love. -The Martial Arts; As a long time Ninja's and Superspies player, this is really what took me away from Palladium, it's much more maneuverable than their system. -The "skill or buy" method of spells; I know this just works into no limit building, but I just had to say it. That's just off the top of my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Lots of dice thundering across the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool -SPD This is one of the first things I liked, it's always attracted my love. I really do like this about the system. -separation of Stun and Body; Well, yah, I like it, and I'd like to add the separation of Normal vs. Killing attacks to that also. I know a lot of folk don't like it, but it really works in my brain. One of the things that took me away from Ninja's and Superspies, I got tired of the HUGE SDC that a guy could develop while having a paper HP value, but you could fire a full burst off a .50 cal. at a dude and still not whittle down to HP... In Hero, you could still do "HP" damage, and "SDC" while still doing a serious amount of damage, or defending a serious amount of damage. -"No limit" Character build-ability (I don't even know if that's a word); I love just sitting down and building, that's why I love to GM in the game. Like a buddy from my steampunk game, "I could never have build a survivable and fun mechanic/ inventor in D&D." -Knockback/ Knockdown; seriously, the first time I fired a shotgun and threw someone through a window, I was in love. -The Martial Arts; As a long time Ninja's and Superspies player, this is really what took me away from Palladium, it's much more maneuverable than their system. -The "skill or buy" method of spells; I know this just works into no limit building, but I just had to say it. That's just off the top of my head. Speaking as a fellow Palladium convert, I was initially attracted to how Champions' character creation system made Heroes Unlimited look like a joke.That and it reminded me of the BIO-E system for mutant animals, which was probably (clumsily) based on Champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool lots of dice thundering across the table. yahtzee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool I should've mentioned that too. Coming (like so many of us) from a D&D background' date=' the concept of things that made the character weaker to contribute to overall game play was an amazing eye-opener. These days that sort of thing is taken for granted, but back in 1981 I think it was pretty revolutionary for many gamers.[/quote'] I have to admit Disadvantages revolutionized the way I approach character design and gaming in general (twenty years ago!). I implement them differently than the book presents them now, but the underlying concept is essentially the same, and many systems do very similar things today it was something Hero brought to the state of gaming art when it hit the market. A very cool aspect of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Democracy Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Oh man... I'm gonna haveta redo the index... across two books. As we sometimes say in WoW' date=' /crai.[/quote'] Oo! That IS a task I'll bet you never considered when you initially thought of two books. Would the simplest (and most useful) way forward to have the index in two books with a I or II next to the page numbers? Means you dont have to look in two indexes... Doc PS: apologies - think I just broke the initial posting rules... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crypt Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool - The index - The ways skills, familiarities and specialisations work. - no endless list of skills, powers, advantages or disadvantages. (that's one thing i disliked in GURPS or in RMFRP/RMSS's skills and totally hated in D&D3.) - The fact that the rules only simulate effects, not the sources (i think this is the biggest difference with GURPS, for instance, where you have some rules for magic, some other for psionic, some other for spirits, etc.....) The consequences are enormous. This is the blood of HERO. This is also a very nice "cheating" tool. If someone say:"with such a stat i should be able to do that" you may reply "yes, ok, just buy it" and everybody is happy. - John Kim's Velocity Factor. - 80% logarithmic. (100% would be better but nobody is perfect) - No absolutes. - Various types of damage. - the speed chart - the fact that the roll low method may be easily changed. - the possibility to build flying telephath trouts in invisible armor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted April 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Would the simplest (and most useful) way forward to have the index in two books with a I or II next to the page numbers? Means you dont have to look in two indexes... It's either going to have to be something like that, or the pages across the two books would have to be numbered sequentially (e.g., 6E1 is pages 1-350, 6E2 is 351-550 or whatever). I think the latter would be too jarring for most folx though. No worries, I'll figure it all out somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool GURPS 4 uses the latter. I have no problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Bruins Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool If the advice of someone who's had to work from and on indices across multiple grade levels in textbook programs for over a decade counts for anything, I would highly recommend distinguishing separate books by letters (or some other symbol) rather than using a numeric system that could be easily confused with the actual page numbers. Whether it's book title abbreviations or a simple "A" and "B," it'll be a lot easier for people to distinguish at a glance what they're looking for than hitting them with an index where they'll have to figure out if the first numeral is the book number or the hundreds digit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilFleischmann Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Oh, yes. And I like the fact that nearly everything is Linear. Master List of Scales in HERO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utech Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Many, many great features. I generally agree with most everything written so far. The thing that is most important to me, however... 5ER Page 543 -- Eight Principles for Interpreting and Applying the HERO System Rules. This needs to be on page 1. Maybe even on the cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool It's either going to have to be something like that' date=' or the pages across the two books would have to be numbered sequentially (e.g., 6E1 is pages 1-350, 6E2 is 351-550 or whatever). I think the latter would be too jarring for most folx though.[/quote']Personally I'd prefer the former. (Not that that'll make any huge difference, of course, though doing it that way could make for an easy index should some future Advanced book include a Master Index.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Master Index you say.... why, that's an awesome idea. Wonder if Steve could convince some crazed fan to do such a thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted April 25, 2009 Report Share Posted April 25, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool I love the fact that you so seldom hear "you can't do that in Hero." You hear "That costs too much." "You can't do that that way." "That would be hard and complicated to do." "I won't allow that in MY game." Even "No sane person would allow that in their game." In my case of course I often hear "That makes no sense." I'd like to think someday we will NEVER have to hear "You can't do that." Lucius Alexander The palindromedary tries to remind Lucius that just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot Posted April 26, 2009 Report Share Posted April 26, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Master Index you say.... why, that's an awesome idea. Wonder if Steve could convince some crazed fan to do such a thing... I don't know who Steve could find that fits those qualifications.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool - That Hero means different things to different people; even contradictory things, as this thread attests. - That Hero can be used to develop a fully fleshed-out character rather than a "starting" character, simply by changing the number of points used to build without changing the power level parameters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool The things that made me fall in love when I first read the Champions rule book in the fall of 1982: Reasoning from effects. The Powers system with Limitations and Advantages. Disadvantages. The basic combat mechanic of rolling under 11+OCV-DCV to hit. SPD and the Speed Chart The maneuver system Presence attacks The BODY/STUN split Defenses that stop damage as opposed to making you harder to hit. Later additions that added to my love of the game: The Language Chart Definable background skills I'm pretty sure that there are many more items that I have fallen in love with about the system over the years, but these are the big ones for me, and thus, they form what I think of as the core of the Hero System. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteryx Posted April 29, 2009 Report Share Posted April 29, 2009 Re: The Distinctive, The Special, The Cool Well, let's see here... Well-defined levels of effect for Mind Control. You would not believe how many RPGs treat mind control as an on/off deal -- or several individual on/off deals. Even other point-buy systems. Even other effects-based point-buy systems! PD vs. ED. Others have mentioned STUN/BODY, but I think it's worth pointing out how HERO recognizes both the difference between physical and energy attacks and the need to treat them as equals. Communicative, customer-friendly, fan-friendly, free online presence. This has become more important than ever in light of the way a certain large company's attitudes have changed. Suggestions as to which powers to bend into weird shapes to cover strange cases, as opposed to a completely undefined and guideline-free miscellaneous "power" that only exists to codify the concept of making stuff up. Just off the top of my head. -- Pteryx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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