Villainess Romance Appeal?

[Nothere]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Well first as to your question of appeal. Villians are always more fun than the good guys. Hence the appeal of bad boys and girls.

Batman- catwoman

Spider-man - Black Cat

Dick Tracy- Breathless Mahoney

Their beautiful, fun, and willing to do the things we wish we could do. Oh we may never admit to wanting to do it cause it makes us look bad, but for however brief a time we do want to follow them. As to why these particular two have gotten under his skin, uhm sorry a complete expalanation of attraction is beyond the scope of this book:)

As to getting him to back off, as you like dreams putting that in is fine. Though before going nuclear you might want to try a few other things.

 

From what I read Multigirl is more the fun loving in it for the kickjs bit. Also as she often robs criminals, he may just be writting that off. Here I'd say go for a classic. She sets him up.

 

Harry is going along minding his own buisness. Suddenly Multigirl surprises him. She slinks up to him. She stares lovingliy into his eyes. She whispers sweet nothings into his ear. Suddenly another Multigirl runs by at full speed. Shouting that the hoods are after her, she throws Harry something. As he catches it both Multigirls take off. They are pretty well out of sight when gunmen in unkown uniforms arrive. Seeing Harry has the item, they demand he surrender. At this point there is probably a fight. When the police arrive Harry gets dragged downtown. There he spends hours having to explain why he has the goods stolen from the philanthropist, and why he attacked the security gaurds.

 

As to the Demon. Oh Boy. I don't know what you mean by saying he lets her do whatever she wants, but letting her trade for people's souls? Here he's probally thinking hey I sold my soul, but got it back. No big deal.

 

Alarms go off. Harry investigates, and finds someone shooting at people or threatining too. The moment they see Harry they start shouting about how he's a monster whoes damened him to hell. He then tries to kill Harry.

When Harry catches him, the man explains that he sold his soul to Infernis. Now they are damed to hell. But unlike the sick monster that Harry is at least they don't have others blood on their hands. At this point Harry points out they were shooting at others. They reply who cares they are the damned. At least they had the guts to look in the face of those they destroyed, unlike the cowardly Harry. They are carted off swearing to get revenge on Harry before they rot in the hell he sent them too.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I love the use of dreams! Thank you for the suggestion!

The only thing is that I would probably change the ending so that instead of the Sgt breaking through the door, Kate would suddenly change into the Sgt and order Harry to "Kiss me you damn filthy maggot, kiss me like a man!!"

 

-SC

 

That is sick and evil. I LOVE IT!

[Lucius]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I can explain why Harry is so indulgent to Infernis, I think.

 

But mostly, no meaningful response is really possible until I know two things.

 

What's a demon?

 

What's a soul, and what does it mean to buy or sell one?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I know what a palindromedary is, but that's irrelevant.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Dear All,

Thank you for the wonderful ideas!

I will try to answer more later. I am feeling a bit anemic tonight. But I will try my best to answer tomorrow!

 

You did pass Biology, right?

 

Good girls might be fun-loving, but "Bad Girls" are fun!

There was a little girl

Who had a little curl

Right in the middle of her forehead.

 

And when she was good

She was very,

very

good.

But when she was bad she was

incredible!

Just yesterday I watched a Stargate: Atlantis episode that had a guy with similarly persuasive abilities. It was called Irresistable. Maybe now that Bloodclaw is gone, Twilight might return? [/tangent]

 

I have actually thought about making a "Bad Boy" brother of Twilight, but I was going to wait for one more session in case BloodClaw returns...

I did not want to make a "Mary Sue" type character, but a more vigilante type who does not really care about laws, but "justice" instead. And of course, he would be a good possible love interest for the two lady PCs (Red, Dreamy) and maybe even Harry?? (I might be feeling very naughty, I don't know )

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I can explain why Harry is so indulgent to Infernis, I think.

 

But mostly, no meaningful response is really possible until I know two things.

 

What's a demon?

 

What's a soul, and what does it mean to buy or sell one?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I know what a palindromedary is, but that's irrelevant.

 

I will try to explain my understanding of things, but it is difficult to explain:

 

A demon is a monstrous type creature that lives in another dimension of existence. I am not familiar so much with the religious versions of demons, I have been playing them more as "Oni/Ogre" types with a very complex society. (I have not yet thought about "Angels" yet.) They used to have rule over the Earth, but have since lost their ability to stay. They are not "mindless evil," but they do not have morals that humans would consider to be "good." They are purely ruled by status, which is gained by taking human souls, and a strict and complex set of laws.

 

A soul is a energy that humans possess. It is very unique and the demons covet it greatly as they can change it to make their own power greater. Although demons can steal souls, they cannot increase it's power at all, so many feel it is best to bargain for souls after the human dies, so they can try and gain the most energy. Human actions make a soul more "evil" or "good," which change the "purity" of the soul (sort of like jewels). Many demons offer to buy/sell souls in order to increase their status and to confront rivals. A human without a soul has lost much of its drive, and is almost mindless (very low EGO). After a human dies, its soul finds its way to... wherever souls go (many have different ideas on this one). The only fate that people are SURE of is that people who sell their souls to demons are sent to the demon world (Hell), where they are essentially slaves of the demons forever.

 

I should add though, that almost everyone does not know that demons are "really real" and thus many can be tricked that way...

 

I hope this offers more insight. I will write more details if you need them (just let me know )

 

-SC

[Doug McCrae]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Evil is sexy

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Heck, maybe she doesn't reform. Maybe it's revealed that MG is stringing him along, using him for the pigeon he is and has no romantic feelings for him. He's just a conveniently lay/meat shield for her. When the going gets tough, she'll betray him in a heartbeat or set him (and his unwilling team members) up if it'll make things better for her.

 

Novi's other points/concerns are very sound and valid though.

 

Thank you for the reply and for reminding me about something very important!

 

Multi-Girl has a very sad history, as she has come from a very tough family life (abusive parents, ran away from home when powers manifested) and has been "taught" by the world to never 100% trust anybody.

Even though she acts very light-hearted and tom-boyish, she does not believe in her heart that anyone can be trusted, and that EVERYONE will eventually betray her given the chance. Harry is the only one she sort of feels may not immediately discard her given the opportunity, but she will not get too close to him for fear that she is wrong. She is sort of tragic, which may or may not add to her appeal...

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Also, it's the classic moral dilemma - Betty or Veronica? The good girl vs the bad girl? Do you take the choice society tells you is proper, or do you choose fun now? Or, a somewhat similar one for the ladies, Batman or Superman?

 

And far be it for me to tell you how to run your game, but I'm noticing two things you should know. The first is that you need to be more comfortable telling your players no. Part of it is being able to tell people that characters they have don't fit in your game. Another part of it is players taking advantage of you, and needing to put a stop to it. Harry is doing all that stuff is that he thinks that he can get away with it. Part of that is character, but another portion is his player knowing that you won't punish him. So you need to start giving his action consequences. You need to put some serious karmic payback in for Infernis and make it obvious he can't let her get away with stuff, no matter how much he likes her. Oh, he can still roleplay the conflict between his libido and his sense of justice, but let him know that justice better start winning. Multi-girl is less problematic, just start dropping hints that he needs to put a little more effort into reforming her. She'll come around, eventually, mostly.

 

The other bit of advice is that you need to relax and not worry so much - you don't have to get it perfect. You don't have to plan 12 steps ahead of the players, you just need to stay one step ahead and let their imagination fill in the gaps for you. You just have project the air that the stuff you make up as the plan derails is what you intended all along. It's not that hard, you just have to work on your poker face. And as to manipulative NPCs, you can do it. Just remember that you don't have to fool Sherlock Holmes, you just have to fool your players. And, from what I've read into what you've said, is that you have a group of good players who are willing to play along and be dumb in character. Start small, and work up as you succeed. Also, never ask for sense motive rolls - that'll just tip of your players. Let them ask to do it.

 

Also, because your players only know what happens in game and what you tell them, you can make up your evil plans over time and the players will still believe that it was the villains plan the whole time, as long as the plan seems believable.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll attempt to take my own advice.

 

Thank you so much for the great advice!

I am not sure if Harry is doing things because he feels that there are no consequences, or if he is doing what his character thinks is right... (I'm not sure, they might be the same! Harry is known in game for pushing everyone's buttons until they slap his hand )

 

And it is very true I need to relax (I don't even relax when I've been drinking ). I just want everyone to have a good time, and I worry that if I don't do a good job, everyone will be disappointed...

 

Oh, and as for the two heroes: I would date Batman, but marry Superman. Is that an option? ( Naughty SC )

 

-SC

[novi]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Thank you so much for the great advice!

I am not sure if Harry is doing things because he feels that there are no consequences, or if he is doing what his character thinks is right... (I'm not sure, they might be the same! Harry is known in game for pushing everyone's buttons until they slap his hand )

 

And it is very true I need to relax (I don't even relax when I've been drinking ). I just want everyone to have a good time, and I worry that if I don't do a good job, everyone will be disappointed...

 

Oh, and as for the two heroes: I would date Batman, but marry Superman. Is that an option? ( Naughty SC )

 

-SC

 

That's cheating! You can only choose one. It's the entire point of this test!

 

 

If your players are coming back to your game, and mentioning that they look forward to it, you have succeeded and are doing a good job. There is no other test. Though it seems as though many people don't let themselves believe that - I've been playing in an Exalted game for, gosh, is that 4 years now? - which me and the other players obviously enjoy. But after every session, the GM asks how it was, and still marvels at how much enjoyment we've gotten out of his shoddy prep-work. Of course, part of his lack of prep-work is logical - of the 3 options for doing something in the game he can think of, we'll choose the fifth one, so there is no point in excessive prep.

[Yansuf]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I can explain why Harry is so indulgent to Infernis, I think.

 

But mostly, no meaningful response is really possible until I know two things.

 

What's a demon?

 

What's a soul, and what does it mean to buy or sell one?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I know what a palindromedary is, but that's irrelevant.

 

I presume that this is not serious.

If it is, then it should be a new thread: theology.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I can explain why Harry is so indulgent to Infernis, I think.

 

But mostly, no meaningful response is really possible until I know two things.

 

What's a demon?

 

What's a soul, and what does it mean to buy or sell one?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I know what a palindromedary is, but that's irrelevant.

I presume that this is not serious.

If it is, then it should be a new thread: theology.

It's a legitimate question. Every campaign is different. I've seen Urban Fantasy campaigns where "demons" were just creatures from other dimensions (albeit usually horrible dimensions) and not “minions of the devil”. They were generally considered “evil” and not given consideration as “people” when it came to killing them, but there were some good ones. On the other hand I’ve seen Superhero games were demons were fair game for killing and Superhero games where demons were considered “sentient beings” just like any other alien or extra-dimensional characters and would trigger a character’s Code vs Killing.

Likewise, I’ve seen the “soul” or “spirit” treated very differently in different campaigns.

My point is, asking what a demon or a soul is, in the context of the campaign, is legitimate.

[drunkonduty]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Oh, and as for the two heroes: I would date Batman, but marry Superman. Is that an option? ( Naughty SC )

 

-SC

 

Well I don't know if it's cheating or not but I can say it strikes me as pretty bloody typical. I'm going to go off and grumble in a corner by myself. With beer.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Well I don't know if it's cheating or not but I can say it strikes me as pretty bloody typical. I'm going to go off and grumble in a corner by myself. With beer.

 

Real Batman types anticipate that sort of typical reaction and have a plan.

 

 

as to the topic at hand, I see ways either relationship could be the setup for the classic "sacrifice all for love" trope, which also imparts a measure of responsibility on his head and clears the playing field a bit.

 

Womanizing heroes take it hard when someone else dies for them. Trust me.

[CourtFool]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

This.

 

The appeal of "bad girls" is' date=' of course, really no different from the appeal of "bad boys".[/quote']

 

I would not be worrying about why Harry is doing this. I would just be grateful to have a player willing to put his PC in dangerous situations all in the name of role playing.

 

The other option is a group of players who never play their disadvantages because they always have to 'win'.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

If your players are coming back to your game' date=' and mentioning that they look forward to it, you have succeeded and are doing a good job. There is no other test. Though it seems as though many people don't let themselves believe that - I've been playing in an Exalted game for, gosh, is that 4 years now? - which me and the other players obviously enjoy. But after every session, the GM asks how it was, and still marvels at how much enjoyment we've gotten out of his shoddy prep-work. Of course, part of his lack of prep-work is logical - of the 3 options for doing something in the game he can think of, we'll choose the fifth one, so there is no point in excessive prep.[/quote']

 

Plainly, your referee is doing a bunch of things right. One being asking the Players how each session was. Refs should not EVER take that for granted.

[Cygnia]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Womanizing heroes take it hard when someone else dies for them. Trust me.

 

Heroes might. But what about the players of said supposed heroes? The guy might have "Clueless cad with wandering loins" as a Disad.

 

And there's always the option that all these women just dump his ass hard (especially Kate) without going the psycho route.

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Heroes might. But what about the players of said supposed heroes? The guy might have "Clueless cad with wandering loins" as a Disad.

 

And there's always the option that all these women just dump his ass hard (especially Kate) without going the psycho route.

 

I must admit that I do not like having "all women go crazy" when they find out that other women are involved. I think Kate would personally be appalled if she found out about this. But I don't think she'd "go crazy." She might be very sad and call her father... who might then "go crazy."

The strange thing that does bother me (at times) is that Harry can "occasionally" date all of these girls, but does not count them as "girlfriends??" Maybe this is just a guy/girl point of view issue....

 

-SC

 

Edit: Oh, and that if one of these girls happens to be dating another guy (besides Harry), he acts "shocked"???

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Real Batman types anticipate that sort of typical reaction and have a plan.

 

 

as to the topic at hand, I see ways either relationship could be the setup for the classic "sacrifice all for love" trope, which also imparts a measure of responsibility on his head and clears the playing field a bit.

 

Womanizing heroes take it hard when someone else dies for them. Trust me.

 

I am actually amazed that with all of Batman's enemies he has had so many girlfriends! I did a search, and he actually has more girlfriends than Super-man! (Though Batman is not married...)

 

I was not sure about using a martyr type plotline, mostly because I don't know how the PCs will react... I know that the other PCs would not like it if Harry ended up having one of the girls killed.

 

-SC

[SimComm]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

It's a legitimate question. Every campaign is different. I've seen Urban Fantasy campaigns where "demons" were just creatures from other dimensions (albeit usually horrible dimensions) and not “minions of the devil”. They were generally considered “evil” and not given consideration as “people” when it came to killing them, but there were some good ones. On the other hand I’ve seen Superhero games were demons were fair game for killing and Superhero games where demons were considered “sentient beings” just like any other alien or extra-dimensional characters and would trigger a character’s Code vs Killing.

Likewise, I’ve seen the “soul” or “spirit” treated very differently in different campaigns.

My point is, asking what a demon or a soul is, in the context of the campaign, is legitimate.

 

Maybe it may be a cultural difference, but I am very hard pressed to call a group of people "evil" and "unredeemable" even if they are called "demons."

I actually would not mind if Infernis could somehow find some understanding of "goodness," although she would still be a "bad girl" at heart. How to do this without making her less of a threat (I believe the term is "chickification?") is rather hard...

 

-SC

[Cygnia]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Well, do you want any of these "bad girls" to be redeemed? As the GM, does that fit your plots?

[CourtFool]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

The strange thing that does bother me (at times) is that Harry can "occasionally" date all of these girls' date=' but does not count them as "girlfriends??"[/quote']

 

This may well be a guy/girl thing. Or even worse, a person/person thing. Going on a date with someone does not make you girlfriend/boyfriend. I think even two or three dates would not imply exclusivity unless specifically discussed. I believe you said Harry and Multi-Girl have not had 'intimate relations'. That implies 'just friends' to me.

 

If they have not discussed exclusivity, you are on very grey area.

[CourtFool]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I actually would not mind if Infernis could somehow find some understanding of "goodness' date='" although she would still be a "bad girl" at heart.[/quote']

 

Ooooo! Now we are talking! I love villains that are ambiguous. The world is not black and white. "Evil" people never think they are evil. They all have reasons for acting the way they do.

 

What you need to do is figure out why your bad girls act "badly". Beneath it all should be a motivation anyone can empathize with. It can even be something like "I was screwed over before, so I am going to screw others over before they have a chance to do it to me." Not everyone is like that, but I think, on some level, people can understand why someone else might.

 

Are your bad girls trying to protect someone? Do your bad girls believe the ends justify the means? Is Infernus evil only because she fears the punishment she will receive from other demons if she is not? Does Multi-Girl steal because she grew up poor and swore she would never live like that again? Does her disabled sister need extensive medical care?

 

I love the look on my PCs' faces when they finally bring down the Big Bad and uncover he did it all for dear ole mom.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

I am actually amazed that with all of Batman's enemies he has had so many girlfriends! I did a search, and he actually has more girlfriends than Super-man! (Though Batman is not married...)

 

I was not sure about using a martyr type plotline, mostly because I don't know how the PCs will react... I know that the other PCs would not like it if Harry ended up having one of the girls killed.

 

-SC

 

Hey, I just hadn't sen anyone mention the martyr card yet.

 

It's a classic in these situations (regardless of gender). Reformed Baddies romantically involved with the Hero often have the life expectancy of tissue paper in this sort of genre.

[pinecone]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

One suggestion for a boomerang...

 

Infernis is having an afair with Sgt Superior, she likes his macho swagger, and she trys to get him to go easy on Harry....

[Kal'El Wayne]

Re: Villainess Romance Appeal?

 

Who says the three/ten girls aren't happy to be together with Harry?