HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Kristopher]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm... not happy with cross-using mechanic vs SFX. A block isn't a dodge. A shield doesn't make you harder to hit.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm... not happy with cross-using mechanic vs SFX. A block isn't a dodge. A shield doesn't make you harder to hit.

 

I never said define as a Block as a Dodge. The original post was about trying to effectively hit someone with a lot of arms. My reply was to buy extra DCV versus HTH attacks with the SFX of those extra limbs getting in the way. A "block" yes, but not a deliberate Martial Maneuver. And having used and opposed people with shields, they do make you harder to hit, as they reduce and eliminate target areas.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

"Brace for impact" maneuver.

 

A really wierd idea: Vehicle Martial Arts. Just a thought that came to me.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

"Brace for impact" maneuver.

 

A really wierd idea: Vehicle Martial Arts. Just a thought that came to me.

 

Well, there's already Root.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

"Brace for impact" maneuver.

 

A really wierd idea: Vehicle Martial Arts. Just a thought that came to me.

Well' date=' there's already Root.[/quote']It does make for a decent illustration of how Martial Maneuvers can represent training that doesn't normally qualify as (lower-case) martial arts.

[Neverway]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I am shedding bitter tears of anguish. After two hours of hunt and peck typing and page look-ups, I fat fingered my post and the entire thing disappeared.

 

To answer the last question first, as an owner of both UMA and NH I'm going to buy HSMA regardless. If for nothing else than having everything in one book instead of having to flip between two. The addition of gobs more chi/martial arts powers is just gravy.

 

Anyway, here's a few things I'd like to see in HSMA.

 

First, I'd like to see an additional fictional martial art for simulating video game fighting styles. An example of what I'm talking about can be found at http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/577-Fighting-Game-Hero?p=717290#post717290

 

Second, like a few other previous posters I'd like to see some discussion of tournaments added. How the GM can handle them, what sort of rules and structure are generally used, how to modify things for the more fantastic power levels, etc.

 

The following may seem a bit picayune and I apologize in advance if I'm being overly nit-picky.

 

UMA, In the section for constructing martial arts and martial arts maneuvers, the maneuver basis are listed in both the Maneuver Basis and Helpful Elements tables. While it's probably an indication of my limitations and not a problem with the presentation, I find this confusing and would like to see the maneuver basis removed from the Helpful Elements table with the information added to the Maneuver Basis table in both the HTH and Ranged sections.

 

The Abort element description says that it can only be added to the Block, Dodge, and Escape (based off of the Exert element) elements. However, Block and Dodge already have Abort built in. I'd like to see the Abort element made an option for the Exert element instead of its own thing.

 

Speaking of the Exert element, it doesn't have an entry in the Element Descriptions section, please add one.

 

Likewise, several of the entries in the Ranged Maneuver Helpful Elements and Restrictive Elements are missing write-ups in the Element Descriptive section.

 

The Powers section of UMA contains several example powers with limits that are not applicable to all campaigns and power levels (e.g., Ch'i aid on pg 119 and 120). Although you've probably already done it as part of merging UMA and NH, I'd just like to nudge your elbow a bit and say I'd like to see these restrictions removed in preference to the campaign power levels discussion elsewhere in the book.

 

In NH, page 64, the Character Types table has five entries and the Character Abilities has six. I'm not sure which one is right, but I think they should match.

 

I'm a martyr to the Cause...

As mentioned by a couple of other people, both Wuxia and Anime contain much larger ranges of power than are indicated in the descriptions and tables on pages 63 and 64 of NH. I would like to see the discussion expanded a bit to indicate that the power level names are taken from what a casual fan may be most familiar with and the power level of the campaign should be set based on the desired power level not the source of inspiration for the campaign. E.g., A campaign modelled after a high school sports anime would use the Realistic power level even though it's an anime. Likewise, emulation of a mountain smashing wuxia film would use the Anime power level. This probably holds true for Video Games also.

 

Those are my thought for the moment, thank you for considering them.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

First, I'd like to see an additional fictional martial art for simulating video game fighting styles. An example of what I'm talking about can be found at http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/577-Fighting-Game-Hero?p=717290#post717290

 

Most Video Game fighters use a real world style. Okay, they are supposed to use a real world style. So you're covered there. If by fighting styles you mean the powers they often exhibit, I wrote up a selection of sample Video Game Martial Arts powers, to include power ups, autofire strikes, and ch'i blasts.

 

As mentioned by a couple of other people, both Wuxia and Anime contain much larger ranges of power than are indicated in the descriptions and tables on pages 63 and 64 of NH. I would like to see the discussion expanded a bit to indicate that the power level names are taken from what a casual fan may be most familiar with and the power level of the campaign should be set based on the desired power level not the source of inspiration for the campaign. E.g., A campaign modelled after a high school sports anime would use the Realistic power level even though it's an anime. Likewise, emulation of a mountain smashing wuxia film would use the Anime power level. This probably holds true for Video Games also.

 

Those are my thought for the moment, thank you for considering them.

 

That's a valid comment. However, I think the sample powers list will help demonstrate to the reader what is intended by the various martial arts categories (which are Real World, Cinematic, Wuxia, Video Game, and Anime, for anyone who's not seen Ninja Hero).

 

I'll post here what I sent Steve with regards to how I split up the various Sample Powers, to help illustrate how I see it:

 

Realistic -- Things people can really do and/or learn (this includes Battlefield Punches and Bruce Lee's One-Inch Punch).

Cinematic -- Things I expect to see in the movies of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Toshiro Mifune, Steven Segal (and so on), or comics like Usagi Yojimbo.

Wuxia -- Things I'd expect to see (or have seen) in the films of Jet Li, Tsui Hark, Andy Lau, Stephen Chow, and so on.

Video Game -- Powers that have, well, a "video game" feel to them.

Anime -- Things I'd expect to see in a lot of top-end wuxia movies (such as The Storm Riders or Zu Warriors), or in many fighting anime (such as Bleach or Dragon Ball Z), or in any anime based off of a video game, or in totally over the top fighting-based comics or manga (such as Weapons of the Gods).

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

As an addendum to be previous post, I'll admit these divisions aren't cut-and-dried, just like the various "Ages" of comics (Gold, Silver, Bronze, and so on) aren't exactly cut-and-dried. And just like you can have a street-level superhero (Batman) interact with a galactic superhero (Superman), you can have various power levels of martial artists interact all in the same setting.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think I would like to see writeups for the arts that involve saucepan lids and umbrellas. (I don't have the names handy, sorry.)

[kahuna's bro]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

i think thats called use art with suff,meaning iimpovised weapons of conveinience

[Vondy]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think I would like to see writeups for the arts that involve saucepan lids and umbrellas. (I don't have the names handy' date=' sorry.)[/quote']

 

Improvised weapons?

[kahuna's bro]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

thinkhow jackie chan can improvise a weapon[often with comic effect] out of pots,pans or tennis raquets

[Vondy]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

thinkhow jackie chan can improvise a weapon[often with comic effect] out of pots' date='pans or tennis raquets[/quote']

 

I know what you meant. I was attempting to provide a name for it.

 

I'd just call it a weapon familiarity, personally.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think I would like to see writeups for the arts that involve saucepan lids and umbrellas. (I don't have the names handy' date=' sorry.)[/quote']

 

Per UMA page 63: Saucepan lid -- Nabebutajutsu, Umbrella -- Tegasajutsu.

[KawangaKid]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

also for a substyle in Muay thai: Yaw Yan. translated as the "Dance of Death". I would give it some intro but you know what they say about pictures and how many words they are worth.........

 

Sorry, but I cannot currently view the video. HOWEVER, I must politely correct you: Yaw Yan is a Filipino Martial Art, not a Muay Thai substyle. Sayaw ng Kamatayan is "Dance of Death" in Tagalog (the dialect which became Filipino), not Thai. It IS a form of kickboxing, different from another Filipino kicking style, which is Sikaran.

 

I know some practitioners of Sikaran and will try to see what moves are appropriate. Like most kicking styles, it seems to requires a certain limberness in the leg area. All I know is that most of the combo kicks start with kicks to the head, then hit some other part of the body (one of my faves being the kick to the head followed up by a downward angle sweep to the legs -- "after you kill him, you kick the leg out from under him"). I also like the maneuver where -- when face-to-face with you opponent (about an inch or so) -- you somehow kick your opponent in the back of the head. I've seen it, and it requires, speed, flexibility, and guts -- which the woman certainly had.

 

As far as the original topic, at very least I can recommend local books and journals on various local martial arts (and the local flavors of Chinese martial arts practiced here -- we've had Filipino Chinese communities over here for a LONG time) and try to make my comments on my copy of the UMA for Philippine Arts.

[Rapier]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It would seriously improve the utility of the book if there were reference charts in the back.

 

It would be helpful if one of these charts broke out style (or if the book was organised) by region/country. I can't tell you the number of times I would have a hero that was from India (or Africa of France or X) that would need some Martial Arts and I have a devil of a time trying to find an appropriate 'local' style. So it would be nice if there was some kind of list that would say 'These styles are local to Haiti' or 'These styles are local to the Caribbean' or 'These styles are local to Asia' or 'These styles are local to Manhattan.'

 

Similarly, it would be extremely helpful if there was a chart (or similar organisation) that specified weapon elements (eg Styles used with Blades, Knives, Staves, OpenHand).

 

It is fairly common for me to be designing a character and have an idea for his powers and possibly even parts of his (or her) background, but need some help fleshing out bits of their martial (heh, I just typed Marital, for some reason that always makes me chuckle...very HoneyMooners) art.

[torchwolf]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It would seriously improve the utility of the book if there were reference charts in the back.

It would be helpful if one of these charts broke out style (or if the book was organised) by region/country. I can't tell you the number of times I would have a hero that was from India (or Africa of France or X) that would need some Martial Arts and I have a devil of a time trying to find an appropriate 'local' style. So it would be nice if there was some kind of list that would say 'These styles are local to Haiti' or 'These styles are local to the Caribbean' or 'These styles are local to Asia' or 'These styles are local to Manhattan.'

Ultimate Martial Artist (for 5th Edition) lists "Martial Arts Around The World" in the Sidebars of p15-16, though it is a bit vague and general (giving regions as differing in size as the Americas, Europe, Korea and Okinawa).

It might be even more helpful with a listing of Martial Arts along the lines of Rarity, Time Period and Country/Region. Example:

Region: Martial Arts (Frequency during different Eras)

Japan: Jujutsu (Common in all Eras)

United States: Jujutsu (Rare before 1920s; Uncommon in later Eras)

Similarly' date=' it would be extremely helpful if there was a chart (or similar organisation) that specified weapon elements (eg Styles used with Blades, Knives, Staves, OpenHand).[/quote']Even greater if these were also listed by Frequency (i.e., nunchaku [Clubs] being a Very Common element for Karate, while a kama would be Uncommon unless cross-training in Kobujutsu).

 

It is fairly common for me to be designing a character and have an idea for his powers and possibly even parts of his (or her) background' date=' but need some help fleshing out bits of their martial (heh, I just typed Marital, for some reason that always makes me chuckle...very HoneyMooners) art.[/quote']I usually end up doing some research on that, especially in case of characters with additional experience from traveling a lot. It would sure be nice to have brief summaries and/or reference charts in the HSMA book to speed up the process.

[Rapier]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ultimate Martial Artist (for 5th Edition) lists "Martial Arts Around The World" in the Sidebars of p15-16, though it is a bit vague and general (giving regions as differing in size as the Americas, Europe, Korea and Okinawa).

It might be even more helpful with a listing of Martial Arts along the lines of Rarity, Time Period and Country/Region. Example:

Region: Martial Arts (Frequency during different Eras)

Japan: Jujutsu (Common in all Eras)

United States: Jujutsu (Rare before 1920s; Uncommon in later Eras)

Even greater if these were also listed by Frequency (i.e., nunchaku [Clubs] being a Very Common element for Karate, while a kama would be Uncommon unless cross-training in Kobujutsu).

 

I usually end up doing some research on that, especially in case of characters with additional experience from traveling a lot. It would sure be nice to have brief summaries and/or reference charts in the HSMA book to speed up the process.

 

Oh! I didn't even think of that. I keep forgetting other time periods. I tend to stick to modern. Commonality would also be a benefit for some Complications also. If the style is very common, it should be worth more points than a style that is only known to four old monks in Tibet!

 

The Martial Arts Around the World SideBars are of some use, but I think a little more specific and uniform detail would be a great benefit.

[Wolf]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

So, I'll put another thought that I'd like to see... Though I don't know if this really is the approprate location for it (meaning this book, it's as close as I can think, but I'd still like to see it).

 

Also, If this exsists in another version of this book (UMA/Ninja Hero) I apologize, I really haven't been doing anything like this lately, so I haven't had time to look through all my books....

 

I am doing a sort of "Sorcerers of the world- Unite!" type game, I've got a Necromancer (kinda summoner/Drains guy), a Shaman/Spiritualist (energy Projector), and one of the 8 Drunken Immortals (H2H/brick/magician).

 

Main Point: I'd like to see one of the Write ups to be along the lines of the 8 Taoist "Drunken" Immortals (one or two of them would be cool) with a little discussion on this topic. They've been more in the media lately what with the Forbidden Kingdom and (from what I can understand) the "experienced adventurers" from Crouching Tiger - Hidden Dragon were two of the 8. I can't think of were this information would be better served.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

P.S. If I have missed one of their write-ups, then I'd like to know where they are, because I'm currently trying to work one out for my player (we're probably going to hold off until the HSMA comes out anyway, but it'd be nice to have in any case.)

[Steve Long]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It would be helpful if one of these charts broke out style (or if the book was organised) by region/country. I can't tell you the number of times I would have a hero that was from India (or Africa of France or X) that would need some Martial Arts and I have a devil of a time trying to find an appropriate 'local' style.

 

I don't mean to sound snide -- but do you mean like the sidebar on UMA 15-16? That will certainly be reprinted (and updated) in HSMA, but I see no need for any reference chart in the back when that information's already available in a simple format right there in the Styles chapter.

[KawangaKid]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ah, another thing!

 

Under the UMA coverage of Arnis / Escrima / Kali, it mentions the anting-anting, but is just a bit off.

 

An anting-anting or agimat is not an 'internal' ability. Rather it is tied to an amulet or a charm. Local folklore says that it can only work on certain days, or it won't work on certain days, or not against certain things, or has different effects. Also, some folks say that they can't be bought, but must be received as a gift for them to work.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

For some reason I keep thinking there should be some kind of rule for holding a conversation while fighting. I'm not sure this would be necessary (it didn't seem to trip up Westley and Inigo any during their swordfight, or even Westley and Fezzik for that matter), but perhaps for a more realistic setting some penalty could come into play.

 

Then of course there's the opposite situation, where your main task is your conversation and you're just casually beating up on the bad guys while you're at it, mostly in self-defense (there was a scene in Hercules: The Legendary Journeys where the title character did exactly that).

 

Like I say, I'm not sure there really needs to be a rule, and if there is one it probably shouldn't be more than a paragraph or two (and more likely just an entry or three on a table), but it keeps nagging at my mind so I thought I'd get it out.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There's already a rule -- soliloquies take no time. I mean, if your typical superhero crew can hold an extended conversation while fighting, then Inigo and the Man in Black can discuss techniques while crossing blades. In most settings, talking while fighting runs counter to the mood (unless it's something like "He's too strong for me!" or "Go! I'll hold them off!" and the like).

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There's already a rule -- soliloquies take no time. I mean' date=' if your typical superhero crew can hold an extended conversation while fighting, then Inigo and the Man in Black can discuss techniques while crossing blades. In most settings, talking while fighting runs counter to the mood (unless it's something like "He's too strong for me!" or "Go! I'll hold them off!" and the like).[/quote']Yeah, that's my general take on the subject, at least for most settings. But then again the above-mentioned Hercules scene keeps popping into my head (as a somewhat different angle on things), and there's still the more realistic settings to consider.

 

Like I say, probably it's worth nothing, and if it's worth anything it's probably just a brief sentence or a couple of entries on a table (and it may be more an APG2 thing than HSMA). I just thought I'd throw it out there.

[palaskar]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?: More on Anting-anting

 

Hey, I'm not the only one who knows about the anting-anting!

 

I've heard a couple stories about the anting-anting firsthand.

 

The "real" version was told to me by my grandmother. My grandfather (or was it granduncle?) was observing a deer munching on some leaves and a vine. After several weeks of this, the deer was markedly improved. Grandma has made a tea out of these leaves; it's actually quite good, tasting like basil. The plant was also studied by the University of the Phillipines. However, (presumedly due their limited funds) they were only able to figure out what vitamins and like were in them, not any world-saving proteins, etc. Calcium and a few other things were found, that's all.

 

The next story is about a criminal who had an anting-anting that would protect him from bullets. The police eventually trapped him on a bridge, and shot him. The criminal was thrown into the water by the Knockback. When the criminal was later apprehended (I don't know if he was alive or not at that point)...they found that the bullet had been stopped by the anting-anting. Remember, anting-anting are locket-sized, so the bullet basically hit it square in the center.

 

Another story is about Nardo Putik, or Nardo Mud (IIRC). He was so called because...he could disappear "into mud." Or as we say, "into thin air." (Yeah, the whole mud thing confuse me too.) As the name suggests,his anting-anthing could make him invisible.

 

And finally, there's my favorite anting-anting story. Once a year, on the feast day of a certain saint at midnight (I don't what day), the anting-anting will drip from the leaf of a certain plant (I don't remember what either). You must catch it in your mouth before it hits the ground. At the same moment, all manner of demons and ghosts will surround you and try to kill you, but you will be safe so long as the anting-anting is in your mouth. If you can make it to daybreak, the ghosts and demonds will disappear and the anting-anting will be yours!

 

I don't know what this last anting-anting does. It could be any of the above, or it could be a generic "protection from evil." Or it could make the wearer invulnerable to attacks from ghosts and demons.

 

Anyway it's cool story!