HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Mostly what I'm looking forward to is the martial arts "special abilities." Written by Surbrook and enhanced by Long, I expect that section to be a real corker.

 

That said, the aforementioned Cleopatra 2525 TV series (the entirety of which is available on DVD) is an excellent example of Wuxia tricks (albeit relatively low-level ones) in what amounts to a post-apocalyptic Cyberpunk setting, and (IMHO) deserves to be cited as such even if no other reference (direct or indirect) is ever made.

 

I gave Steve a huge list of martial arts source material (anime, comics, manga, film, books, and so on), adding Cleopatra 2525 under the television listing shouldn't present a problem.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I gave Steve a huge list of martial arts source material (anime' date=' comics, manga, film, books, and so on), adding [i']Cleopatra 2525[/i] under the television listing shouldn't present a problem.

Well, I'd kind of leave that up to Steve. Still, if anyone wants to check out what I'm going on about, most of the series can be found at hulu.com.

[director13]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I'd like to see (some of these have already been mentioned in the original post, or by other users):

1) How to build new maneuvers, and the point costs for doing so (as appearing in "How to built custom Talents")

2) Martial Arts specific Talents (with appropriate "Reality / Subgenre levels")

3) Optional Training rules

4) A discussion of optional Stances and Rock/Paper/Scissors maneuver modifiers, different ways to implement them, and fair (sample) cost modifiers for doing so.

5) How to use new and existing Skills to Martial Arts campaigns.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Don't talk about coupons for key lime pie and then act surprised when other people talk about stujutsu, or otherwise get off-topic.

 

How about "beginner level" maneuvers? How do you build a beginner martial artist? If you only buy a few of the maneuvers, you've got a guy who's just as good at those maneuvers as someone who's bought all of them. It might be useful to have "toned down" versions of some of the maneuvers to reflect that a beginner hasn't yet fully mastered those maneuvers. Then, when he gains experience, he can upgrade them to the normal level.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

don't talk about coupons for key lime pie and then act surprised when other people talk about stujutsu, or otherwise get off-topic.

 

How about "beginner level" maneuvers? How do you build a beginner martial artist? If you only buy a few of the maneuvers, you've got a guy who's just as good at those maneuvers as someone who's bought all of them. It might be useful to have "toned down" versions of some of the maneuvers to reflect that a beginner hasn't yet fully mastered those maneuvers. Then, when he gains experience, he can upgrade them to the normal level.

this would be good to build a danny larusso[the movies karate kid] type of herO

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Another thing to consider: padded wearing' date=' like boxing gloves.[/quote']

 

Actually, the modern boxing glove was introduced to reduce the incidence of hand injury to the boxers. There was considerable resistance to the introduction of gloves because wearing any sort of protective gear smacked of "unmanliness" or "cowardice".

 

Wikipedia links: Boxing, Boxing glove

 

Here are a few suggestions:

Include Ecky Thump from the Goodies episode Kung Fu Capers as an example of Slapstick Martial Arts.I'd build the main manuever (walloping people's heads with a black pudding) as follows +2 OCV,+2d6 damage and Target Falls.

 

Is the maneuver seen in this vid it?

 

I know this is a longshot' date=' but in the genre section I would like to see a bit on Pirate/Swashbuckling Hero, maybe going as far as including a 2-3 page mini campeign. Espesialy the european intrigue/muskateer type[/quote']

 

Oh, Please yes! Musketeers, pirates and swashbucklers need love, too!

[Steve]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about "beginner level" maneuvers? How do you build a beginner martial artist? If you only buy a few of the maneuvers' date=' you've got a guy who's just as good at those maneuvers as someone who's bought all of them. It might be useful to have "toned down" versions of some of the maneuvers to reflect that a beginner hasn't yet fully mastered those maneuvers. Then, when he gains experience, he can upgrade them to the normal level.[/quote']

 

This is something I've always hoped to see implemented in Hero,1-2 point maneuvers you could buy that were basically stripped down versions of standard martial arts maneuvers. A way to start with a few 1-2 point maneuvers that could be improved individually would be great for campaigns where the characters start out as learners of the martial arts and accumulate experience to become masters.

 

I'd also like to see rules for maneuvers that break the 5-point barrier for really high-powered campaigns.

[Steve]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I'd like to see (some of these have already been mentioned in the original post, or by other users):

1) How to build new maneuvers, and the point costs for doing so (as appearing in "How to built custom Talents")

2) Martial Arts specific Talents (with appropriate "Reality / Subgenre levels")

3) Optional Training rules

4) A discussion of optional Stances and Rock/Paper/Scissors maneuver modifiers, different ways to implement them, and fair (sample) cost modifiers for doing so.

5) How to use new and existing Skills to Martial Arts campaigns.

 

Yes to all of these, especially #1 and #2.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Oh' date=' Please yes! Musketeers, pirates and swashbucklers need love, too![/quote']

 

Well, Ninja Hero did have Swords of the Sun King.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I remember Champions 5e discussing campaigns that have a unified theme.

 

What if HSMA had a discussion about martial arts campaigns that have a single utilized martial art but with greater variation?

 

For example, in most campaigns having Kung Fu as a single package is adequate but there might be campaigns where Kung Fu is the only martial art but there are many subdivisions of it that are radically different.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing it might be worth mentioning is one-on-one tricks seen in some forms of duels. I've seen some samurai and HK films where the hero knocks swords being drawn back into their sheaths, or two samurai go to draw and one draws his foe's sword first! Also, combining a Fast Draw with a block of your foe's draw and then cutting your foe with your blocking sword. Stuff like that.

 

Also power stunts like tossing a disarmed foe's sword back into his sheath, splitting arrows with your own arrow, and destroy a foe's sword by wrapping it around your own. Basically, colorful one-shot demonstrations of power and skill.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If there's still a "Designing Your Own Martial Arts" section (probably I would imagine but ya never know) what if it could discuss how to go about designing martial arts for non-human races?

 

Different races may typically emphasize different things in their own martial arts where humans would not.

 

While I intend for the idea to be more abstract, I think that an example of my intention would not be out of place.

 

Let's say you're playing a space opera campaign and a heavy worlder race has developed techniques for fighting lighter gravity races? What should a GM be thinking about there when designing that package? What if that race is more of a thoughtful and philosophical culture? That could further define the theme behind a new campaign-specific art.

 

Or what if it's fantasy and you have dwarves which are naturally sturdier than humans?

 

Maybe they do more blocking and less dodging and concentrate more on power and precision than evasion.

 

Not only that but in high fantasy and space opera there is interspecial conflict all of the time (as opposed to intercultural conflict here on earth), which may make for more well-rounded or more more racially-specific forms of fighting; gnomes would probably learn to fight orcs differently than elves would for instance.

 

I think that it would be interesting and worthwhile for sci-fi and fantasy GM's and players to read into as well as adding that much more depth to the world..

[Alibear]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The building blocks of 1 and 2 point MA maneuvers are already there you just need to remove the minimum cost for maneuvers and you're good to go. In a more realistic campaign i encourage this approach to buying Martial Arts.

[dmjalund]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Martial Arts for Slime Moulds!!

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't know if this could fit in anywhere but what if there was a discussion about the reality of martial arts versus the myths and the tales?

 

I think that it could be useful information for a GM that is thinking about what level of realism that they want in their campaign.

 

 

I remember the martial art "Red in Tooth and Claw" from the bestiary - maybe it could be in HSMA, and maybe there could be a defensive version for "herbivores," which could pretty much cover animals.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If there's still a "Designing Your Own Martial Arts" section (probably I would imagine but ya never know) what if it could discuss how to go about designing martial arts for non-human races?

 

Different races may typically emphasize different things in their own martial arts where humans would not.

 

 

Also maybe a short paragraph about non-human weapons, and what limitation it would be, for humanoid races. Example, a lizard race develops weapons to be used with their tails, such as a tail mace. No matter what training you have, as a human, you still couldn't effectively use the tail mace as a lizard man.

[Steve]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I remember the martial art "Red in Tooth and Claw" from the bestiary - maybe it could be in HSMA' date=' and maybe there could be a defensive version for "herbivores," which could pretty much cover animals.[/quote']

 

When I read this, I flashed on the kung fu cow fight scene from "Kung Pao: Enter the Fist."

 

Cow Fu, anyone?

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

When I read this, I flashed on the kung fu cow fight scene from "Kung Pao: Enter the Fist."

 

Cow Fu, anyone?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2eFtI2pHSo

[Lucius]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A few ideas:

 

How about a Manuever Element that gives a bonus or penalty to Presence Attacks, +PRE for moves that look impressive, -PRE for moves that may be effective but look silly?

 

Restrictive Element: Only while mounted

(Maybe some other circumstantial elements, or a general "limited circumstance" element to be defined when the art is built)

 

Manuever Basis: Roll With Punch

(Have to mention that I've used this for a martial art, but would love "official" rules for doing so)

 

Weapon Element: Power

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Master of the palindromedary (among other things)

[Lucius]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Martial Arts for Slime Moulds!!

 

I wonder if anyone will be surprised that I took you up on that....

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/77106-Slime-Passages

 

Martial Art: A Slime to Wound

Cost Maneuver OCV DCV Notes

 

4 Trip +2 OCV +0 DCV 1d6, Opponent slips in a pool of slime

Notes: Custom Manuever: Throw (+1) +(V/3)d6 velocity damage(+3) no STR (-2) +2 OCV (+2) +1D6 damage (+1) Unbalancing (opponent atacks first next phase) (-1)

 

5 Glue +2 OCV -2 DCV 20 STR , Binds foot to floor, or arm to side, with sticky slime

Notes: Custom Manuever: Grab Opponent (+3) One limb only (-1) Unbalancing (Opponent attacks first next phase) (-1) No STR (-2) +20 STR (+6) +2 OCV (+2) -2 DCV (-2)

 

3 Bind Weapon +2 OCV +0 DCV Glues weapon (to warrior's side, shield, sheath, etc) with sticky slime

Notes: Custom Manuever: Bind Weapon (+1) +2 OCV (+2)

 

5 Ooze +0 OCV +3 DCV +20 STR, The slime simply oozes around blows or out of grabs.

Notes: Custom Manuever: Dodge (+0) +3 DCV (+0) +20 STR to escape (+6) Unbalancing (Opponent atacks first next phase) (-1)

 

5 Disarm +2 OCV -2 DCV 20 STR , Slippery slime coats the weapon, causing one to lose one's grip on it.

Notes: Custom Manuever: Disarm (+2) Unbalancing (Opponent attacks first next phase, hopefully without a weapon though) (-1) No STR (-2) +20 STR (+6) +2 OCV (+2) -2 DCV (-2)

 

3 Cover Head +0 OCV -2 DCV Flash 4d6, Slime covers the warrior's eyes. (Some slimes have learned more expensive forms of the manuever in which they crawl into ears too)

Notes: Custom Manuever: Flash 4d6 (+6) Unbalancing (Opponent attacks first next phase, albeit hopefully without seeing what they are flailing at) (-1) -2 DCV (-2)

 

3 Stick to Head +2 OCV -2 DCV Flash 4d6, Slime won't let go

Notes: Custom Manuever: Flash 4d6 (+6) Unbalancing (Opponent attacks first next phase, albeit hopefully without seeing what they are flailing at) (-1) -2 DCV (-2) +2 OCV (+2) Must Follow Cover Head (-2)

 

5 Burning Rash +0 OCV -1 DCV HKA 1d6 +1, Slime burns for 1d6 + 1 Killing Damage, often leaving a limb swollen and useless, after which the dazed slime falls to the floor

Notes: Custom Manuever: 1d6+1 Killing (+12) Disable (+0) No STR (-2) Unbalancing (opponent attacks first next phase) (-1) -1 DCV (-1) Lasting Restriction (-1) Time (takes an extra segment) (-1) Fall (-1)

 

5 Choking Slime +2 OCV -2 DCV 2d6 NND, Slime clings and suffocates

Notes: Custom Manuever: 2d6 No Normal Defense (+6) No STR (-2) Unbalancing (opponent attacks first next phase) (-1) Must follow Cover Head or Stick to Head (-2) +2 OCV (+2) -2 DCV (-2) +15 STR for holding on (+4)

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary hopes Mr. Long will look at it for an example of a Martial Art designed for something totally non-human in form.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

A few ideas:

 

How about a Manuever Element that gives a bonus or penalty to Presence Attacks, +PRE for moves that look impressive, -PRE for moves that may be effective but look silly?

 

Restrictive Element: Only while mounted

(Maybe some other circumstantial elements, or a general "limited circumstance" element to be defined when the art is built)

 

Manuever Basis: Roll With Punch

(Have to mention that I've used this for a martial art, but would love "official" rules for doing so)

 

Weapon Element: Power

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Master of the palindromedary (among other things)

 

I agree with everything except the PRE bonuses.

 

However I did just think of what could be a new Talent: Impressive Display.

 

It could work a bit like Reputation and Striking Appearance already do, but it gives a +1 to Interaction Skills/+1d6 PRE Attack bonus based on particular actions.

 

I think that it would be cool for simulating Katas and the like.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing that needs mentioning is how martial arts movies seem to enjoy staging their fights in interesting locations. Examples can range from open fields to a forest of vertical posts (which are on fire!) and anything in between. Jackie Chan loves setting his fights in locations that let him show off his acrobatic skills, while many wuxia films have a lot of tall objects around for characters to leap and fly to.

[Matt Holck]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I figured out how I can grab villains buy biting them

just buy me teeth as a weapons element of Dragon Martial Arts

that way I can filter my martial maneuvers through my HKA damage.

 

I then customize a grab maneuver

 

Grab Opponent in mouth
+3 Grab Opponent 
-1 One limb only  my teeth are not built to immobilize limbs
-1 Unbalancing (Opponent attacks first next phase) 
      if I grab someone with my mouth, they can punch me in the nose.
      Jaw hit location would take standard damage.
-1 OCV -1 grabbing should be harder than just hitting
+4 DCV +3 this is to counter the 1/2 DCV penalty for grabbing someone 
__     as the dragon will still be able move freely while holding someone in its mouth
4 points

[Sean Waters]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Some chat on another thread about 'Block' and how it works. Might be nice to have a few additional defensive moves other than Block and Dodge.

 

3 suggestions:

 

1. a defensive move that allows you to substitute one hit location for another - possibly as a last minute thing like 'Roll With Punch' - which would then mean if someone was about to smack you in the head, you could get your arm in the way and get hit there instead.

 

2. a 'block' type move that, instead of stopping all damage, increases your defence against that attack, perhaps doubling your pd, for example, if it is a physical attack (or halving damage) - it would differ from Roll With Punch because it has to be done BEFORE the roll to hit but then the affect applies before defences (obviously if you are doubling them).

 

Both of these simulate a grittier, more realistic Block that does not necessarily allow Joe Normal to simply ignore a punch from Grond (assuming they make the Block roll).

 

3. Counterstrike rules: hold an action and strike an incoming attack - this would allow you to damage the opponent and block their attack - appreciate that can probably be done with Multiple Attack but it might make a useful MA base - and the previous injunction against combining attack and defensive maneouvres probably matters less now we have Multiple Attack in 6e.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

1. a defensive move that allows you to substitute one hit location for another - possibly as a last minute thing like 'Roll With Punch' - which would then mean if someone was about to smack you in the head, you could get your arm in the way and get hit there instead.

I kinda like this idea, but it does sound tricky and possibly unbalancing.

 

But I still think that it sounds intriguing.

 

 

2. a 'block' type move that, instead of stopping all damage, increases your defence against that attack, perhaps doubling your pd, for example, if it is a physical attack (or halving damage) - it would differ from Roll With Punch because it has to be done BEFORE the roll to hit but then the affect applies before defences (obviously if you are doubling them).

I would say additive would be better than multiplicative.

 

Maybe +1 PD and/or ED for +1 point or so, maximum +5?

 

3. Counterstrike rules: hold an action and strike an incoming attack - this would allow you to damage the opponent and block their attack - appreciate that can probably be done with Multiple Attack but it might make a useful MA base - and the previous injunction against combining attack and defensive maneouvres probably matters less now we have Multiple Attack in 6e.

I think that it is a rare exception to the rules that definitely has its place.

 

Perhaps a "!" would be prudent.