Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

I'd say I'm not overly bothered by any of these tropes. Most genres have their own insupportable tropes, and fall apart if you pick away at them enough. I recall overhearing someone in a comic store some years ago note that he "only liked realistic superheroes- like the Punisher". Realistic? How many times has he been shot, had bones broken, etc. yet he is none the worse for wear. No old nagging injuries. Not even scars. He doesn't heal as fast, but he heals jsut as effectively as Wolverine.

 

I agree. Even Judge Dredd is slowing down - his last physical exam showed up traces of arthritis. Frank Castle, OTOH... nothing.

[Clonus]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

I guess I was thinking more of the situations where the hero is interrupting some big deal in a wharehouse' date=' or uncovering some mass conspiracy. Muggings and bank robberies are a little more straigh forward I suppose. Short of going all Frnak Castle on them, how would the average costumed vigilante really deal with a big RICO case? .[/quote']

 

Well, Wilson Fisk and Black Mask operate under Spider-Man and Batman's noses for year after year, remaining at large even as their operations are foiled again and again. But if a superhero busts into a warehouse filled with illegal arms or something and incapacitates everyone inside, the police have probable cause to enter (because of the superhero's crime), and grounds to charge the people inside, unless they can come up with a really good explanation for why they were inside a warehouse full of illegal goods.

[Clonus]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Hmm' date=' personally, I'm not bothered at all by this comic book trope. I find easy enough to justify the vast majority of superhumans having a perfect body physique and extended youth longevity as positive side effect of activated superhuman genes, and the vast majority of superhuman origins can be rationalized as activated X-genes in one way or another. I also think that if one had a perfect physique, the kind of taste for public exposition that brings one to pick heroism as a career, and such godlike personal power as to scare off disrepect, exibitionism becomes natural.[/quote']

 

Quite apart from that, there are actually practical reasons to wear a skin tight highly flexible costume for any character who moves or flies at high speeds, uses enhanced acrobatics, or has some kind of body sheathing energy shield. For those who don't fit into those categories, the precedent set by others would be sufficient

[novi]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

On topic: I'd love to see a comic where a superhero comes upon a former villian..who is now legit' date=' and does private industary work, making far more money than he ever stole, and living far richer (and with more professional respect) than the superhero.[/quote']

 

My understanding is that The Penguin has technically gone legit - he now runs a night club and doesn't actually do anything illegal. What his patrons do is another matter altogether.

 

I also understand that the Riddler has moved on to private investigating.

 

But yeah, some of the crimes villains do make no sense.

[novi]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Quite apart from that' date=' there are actually practical reasons to wear a skin tight highly flexible costume for any character who moves or flies at high speeds, uses enhanced acrobatics, or has some kind of body sheathing energy shield. For those who don't fit into those categories, the precedent set by others would be sufficient[/quote']

 

IIRC, somebody here has mentioned that they worked as a bike messenger, and that wearing a tight costume is in fact very practical for what they do. It's not hard imagine that extending to many supers as well.

 

My only issue is that everyone seems to have a skin tight costume. Lots of people would go for spandex, but it would be nice to see a few more who don't.

 

Of course, sometimes idiot artist fail to get the point - I understand that every so often Dust, an Afghani girl on the New Mutants who wears a Burqa, is drawn with the Burqa being rather form-fitting.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Of course, sometimes idiot artist fail to get the point - I understand that every so often Dust, an Afghani girl on the New Mutants who wears a Burqa, is drawn with the Burqa being rather form-fitting.

 

There may be two things at work there. Though they seem to be opposite, they are somewhat related in terms of artist's temperaments being on display.

 

1) Drawing clothing and drapery is kind of hard, especially if you have to do it over and over again and achieve some consistency, as you would if you were trying to depict the same costume on the same girl for fifty panels an issue. It is somewhat easier to show a more form fitting costume, which is why a lot of superhero suits look painted on.

 

2) How else is the artist going to show off his ability to draw hawt chicks and muscle dudes? Did he/she really waste all that time in art school learning anatomy, just to draw an amorphous shape covered by cloth.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

What' date=' you've never heard of the Silver Server?[/quote']

 

Somebody rep this guy for me, huh?

 

The typical superhero is not the accuser' date=' though. The accuser is the victim. The superhero is just some random loonie who immobilized the perpetrator for the authorities, probably saving the victim in the process. Which brings us to another insupportable premise. Even when a hero has no particular crime finding abilities, isn't it amazing how they manage to stumble across it?[/quote']

 

The needs of the plot outweigh the needs of the pedantic few.

 

I guess I was thinking more of the situations where the hero is interrupting some big deal in a wharehouse' date=' or uncovering some mass conspiracy. Muggings and bank robberies are a little more straigh forward I suppose. Short of going all Frnak Castle on them, how would the average costumed vigilante really deal with a big RICO case? I know they often just pass the info off to the appropriate officials, but that isn't always the case. I have to admit that I don't read as many comics as I once did. Most of what I've read recently has been more of the high body count sort of book anyway.[/quote']

 

Most of my characters had some sort of friend or contact who could advise how to proceed in "complicated" circumstances.

 

IIRC' date=' somebody here has mentioned that they worked as a bike messenger, and that wearing a tight costume is in fact very practical for what they do. It's not hard imagine that extending to many supers as well.[/quote']

 

Edna Mode's rants against capes aside, you don't want loose-fitting clothing catching on things (like deathtraps) at crucial moments.

 

Of course, sometimes idiot artist fail to get the point - I understand that every so often Dust, an Afghani girl on the New Mutants who wears a Burqa, is drawn with the Burqa being rather form-fitting.

 

I'm sure his excuse is "What? She's covered, isn't she?"

[dmjalund]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

the Silver Server is the herald for "Judge Duty" The cases are real. The decisions are EXTREMELY final!

[Mister E]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

...

Of course, sometimes idiot artist fail to get the point - I understand that every so often Dust, an Afghani girl on the New Mutants who wears a Burqa, is drawn with the Burqa being rather form-fitting.

 

Wet burqa contest!

 

...1) Drawing clothing and drapery is kind of hard' date=' especially if you have to do it over and over again and achieve some consistency, as you would if you were trying to depict the same costume on the same girl for fifty panels an issue. It is somewhat easier to show a more form fitting costume, which is why a lot of superhero suits look painted on...[/quote']

 

Unstable molecular body paint?*

 

EDIT: *a good prophylaxis for preventing both difficult art and wind rash.

[Nuclear Fridge]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

1) Drawing clothing and drapery is kind of hard, especially if you have to do it over and over again and achieve some consistency, as you would if you were trying to depict the same costume on the same girl for fifty panels an issue. It is somewhat easier to show a more form fitting costume, which is why a lot of superhero suits look painted on.

Or you could go with the Liefeld/WildCATS principle from back in the day... Don't bother showing the fight sequences. Saves you a lot of work. Just have the 'heroes' look real mean & moody up close, monologuing. Then they return to base, bragging about how they just &$*& the living @*&^* out of the *&$(&@ bad guys.

 

And then you don't ship next month's issue for 9 or 10 weeks.

[Balabanto]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Someone get Mr. E for me. Wet Burqa contest is the !@#$!!!!!

[Armitage]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

7. Non-insane supervillains who try to make a living by robbing banks and other property crimes. There's a million ways a supervillain could make easy money' date=' and publicly walking into a bank and ripping the door off isn't one of them, because at least half the time a superhero's going to show up to pound the ever-loving crap out of them and hand them over to be thrown into a high-tech metal box. They could do endorsement deals, use their powers in some form of gainful employment, be a paid research subject, be the head of a crime syndicate (or, heck, shake down a local organized crime crew for money), move to a third world country and be hired muscle for the local dictator(or become the local dictator), join an "unlimited class pro wrestling" league, etc.[/quote']

 

Aberrant made this same argument as to why there were no "supervillains" in their world.

Giving a lazy, dumb, two-bit thug super powers doesn't stop him from being a lazy, dumb, two-bit thug.

"Work? Why would I do that? It's even easier to take what I want now."

[Chimera 12]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Aberrant made this same argument as to why there were no "supervillains" in their world.

Giving a lazy, dumb, two-bit thug super powers doesn't stop him from being a lazy, dumb, two-bit thug.

"Work? Why would I do that? It's even easier to take what I want now."

 

That's a good point. Especially since said thug might actually enjoy some success that way -- superheroes always crawling out of the woodwork in the nick of time to foil supervillains is another one of those comic book tropes, after all. (Which owes its existence to the fact that the comics are about the heroes, of course. Thug-Man's half dozen successful bank robberies before he ran into Captain Justice may be mentioned in passing, but it's a pretty safe bet that we won't see each of them drawn and written in loving detail -- it's not Thug-Man's book.)

[Clonus]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Im amazed that its never occured to the writers at DC that the simplest explanation for why the Joker still draws breath is that Gotham' date=' whatever state it happens to be in, DOESNT ALLOW CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. That would be SO simple to mention in-world, and it would clear up all of those damnable "Batman is responsible for everything Joker does now" arguements.[/quote']

 

No, it wouldn't because those arguments are generally advocating that Batman murder the Joker.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

I suppose one could make a fairly unique argument for defense-of-others-homicide in the case of Bats and the Joker, but otherwise it generally would qualify as murder, yes. Although I tend to doubt anyone would prosecute, and if they did, if any jury would actually vote to convict. "Let's see, he's captured the guy alive dozens of times, every time he escapes he murders one or more people(and every 5th or 10th time the body count is quite high), and this time he just happened to wind up dead? I'm ready to vote, but I can't decide...what we should order for lunch."

 

I don't even think you could get a grand jury indictment, frankly. The foreman would stand up and say, "Yes, I have a question. Why are we wasting time on this?"

 

If insanity were such a revolving door for serial murderers and other sociopaths in the real world, the public would have either tightened up the insanity defense to a severe degree, and/or it would have signed off on rampant vigilantism. And Arkham would be nigh-impossible to escape from. But of course I don't begrudge them that particular fudge factor--Bats would run out of bad guys if they only showed up once every 100 issues.

[Clonus]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

I suppose one could make a fairly unique argument for defense-of-others-homicide in the case of Bats and the Joker, but otherwise it generally would qualify as murder, yes. Although I tend to doubt anyone would prosecute, and if they did, if any jury would actually vote to convict. "Let's see, he's captured the guy alive dozens of times, every time he escapes he murders one or more people(and every 5th or 10th time the body count is quite high), and this time he just happened to wind up dead? I'm ready to vote, but I can't decide...what we should order for lunch."

 

I don't even think you could get a grand jury indictment, frankly. The foreman would stand up and say, "Yes, I have a question. Why are we wasting time on this?"

 

If insanity were such a revolving door for serial murderers and other sociopaths in the real world, the public would have either tightened up the insanity defense to a severe degree, and/or it would have signed off on rampant vigilantism. And Arkham would be nigh-impossible to escape from. But of course I don't begrudge them that particular fudge factor--Bats would run out of bad guys if they only showed up once every 100 issues.

 

It is a little odd that all these criminals who would never pass muster as insane in the real world end up in Arkham rather than prison, but that's strictly a Batman thing.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

You know what should be located right next to the super-prison? A Hulkbusters base, a SHIELD garrison, and an Avengers HQ. The Outsiders should position their base right next to Arkham Asylum. Or Bats could relocate the Batcave/bat-family to be right there. Would save them so much time...

[Squall]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

You know what should be located right next to the super-prison? A Hulkbusters base' date=' a SHIELD garrison, and an Avengers HQ. The Outsiders should position their base right next to Arkham Asylum. Or Bats could relocate the Batcave/bat-family to be right there. Would save them so much time...[/quote']

And gas. You know how much mileage they could cut off'a that jet-engine-powered Batmobile, if they didn't have such a long commute?!

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Is it just me, or would everyone else be pleased to see some ordinary schmuck from the DC universe put a bullet in Wallers head?

 

 

I'm not so picky how she's killed just so she NEVER comes back myself.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

I'm not so picky how she's killed just so she NEVER comes back myself.

 

I actually like Waller as a character. She just has a certain part of the DC Univese where she should remain. She's perfect in Suicide Squad, but I don't always agree when they make her go toe-to-toe with Superman. Even though it was cool when she threatened Batman, she really should have had reprucussions from that, and some of her past actions as well. She does a lot of dirt, and has yet had to own up to any of it to my knowledge.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

It is a little odd that all these criminals who would never pass muster as insane in the real world end up in Arkham rather than prison' date=' but that's strictly a Batman thing.[/quote']

Like who?

[Clonus]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Like who?

 

Among the people who have confined to Arkham when they had no business there I can think of

 

Killer Moth

Signalman

Poison Ivy

Black Mask

All of the Clayfaces

[Greywind]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Except that Gotham likes to keep things close to home and Arkham has better facilities than the average prison.

 

Also Moth, Ivy, Black Mask and the various Clayface were all clinically insane.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Except that Gotham likes to keep things close to home and Arkham has better facilities than the average prison.

 

Also Moth, Ivy, Black Mask and the various Clayface were all clinically insane.

 

"clinically insane" and "legally insane" are two quite different things. It's actually quite difficult to prove a defendant legally insane under the current standard. I don't know what that standard is in DC(writer's fiat, presumably), but even under the broadest definition ever used, a lot of those guys would still not qualify.

[Greywind]

Re: Top 10 Insupportable Premises in Comic Book Universes

 

Different standards in Gotham.