"Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

[Ragitsu]

bringing back the dead in your games? How easy/convoluted is it?

[Beast]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

In Shadowsoul's game, my character Piety who is a song based glamour magic user had a raise dead spell

it was named "a noise to wake the dead

but we had a death priest in the group so I had to drop it

[Matt Holck]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

When my friend DMed,

Doul, my half-orc priest got a scroll of raise dead.

 

When I DMed,

a speedster dryad killed a good natured wizard.

 

When my friend DMed,

Doul used the scroll to raise the wizard.

[AlHazred]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Since I'm running High Fantasy, I have resurrection available in my game. Wizards (and some druids priests) learn Arcane magic, while those holy men who claim divine sanction use Invocations -- something wizards consider a kind of unstudied "wild" hedge magic while religious types see it as something else entirely. This power falls into the Invocations category, since wizards who study what happens when people die tend to become necromancers.

 

It's not super-common -- a good-sized temple in a small- to medium-sized city might have one available every week or so. Since it's rare, it's not "priced" per se -- you won't find it on the "Price List for Spells Cast" in a magic shop (well, except maybe in a necromancer's place, but that'll be a different story). I figured it's available when the PCs are doing a job for one of the chief priests of the temple or a noble patron (who can "squeeze" the priests) but that's about it.

 

If you had to put a value on it, figure anywhere from 500 to 5000 silver (my standard coin).

[MorpheousXO]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Well, first of all the deceased must actually become a ghost after they die. If they don't become a ghost, or is they do but then end up moving on, no go. Second, you need to have MOST of the body, enough that it can be repaired (magically, of course). Then you have to find the ghost and bring it to the body.

 

Then comes the ritual, which requires 8 Shamans, one for each type of spirit magic, whereby they repair the connection from the soul/ghost to the body, then work major mojo to reanimate it in a way that doesn't majorly mess it up.

 

Needless to say, it's not easy and it takes a long time, but it is doable. Definitely not common tho, only the most exceptional people would be considered for it, and finding 8 shamans of different focus that will work together AND agree said person should be returned is rare. Yes, it has to be shamans because it involves spirits, mages just can't do it because they don't have a working relationship with spirits.

[OddHat]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

I have a pretty complex spirit world in my Fantasy campaign.

 

Short version: After death, the spirit goes to the Void, where it walks the Black Road towards the First Gates.

 

So long as the spirit is on the Black Road, or if it leaves the road to wander the Void (and the many worlds that fold into the void), it can be contacted and coaxed back to a body. If it's still on the Black Road, it can only be coaxed, not compelled; if it has left the Black Road, sufficiently powerful magic can pull it back against its will.

 

Once a spirit steps through the First Gates, it can return should it so choose, but it can no longer be sensed, contacted or compelled in any way.

 

The body the spirit is placed in need not be its original body. If it is returned to its original body, or any living body, that body must be repaired sufficiently to continue to live on its own (otherwise the spirit will just fall away again). A spirit may also be placed into another vessel, from living humans or animals (either co-existing with or displacing the spirit of the living body's rightful owner) to Golems and Homonculi.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

I generally disallow it. I like my players to know that death is possible, and permanent, to ensure they think realistically about tactics, not just charge in thinking "It's OK, the Cleric will heal / resurrect me."

 

My Fantasy setting has a very sturdy wall between the lands of the living and that of the dead. Basically, mortals were created when the High God cleaved the universe in twain to stop the wars and destruction of his children. In one half of the universe, mortals live, but gods and spirits have only the most limited ability to affect things there. In the other, the Gods, their immortal servants, and the spirits of the dead.

 

So there either is no resurrection or, if there is, it must be done before the spirit moves on to the other side. Depending on circumstances, this might be moments, or years. If one dies peacefully, you pass the veil quickly. If one dies violently, the spirit lingers, seeking closure, or vengeance. And only the most powerful wizards or the most devout servants can perform the resurrection.

[Lezentauw]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

I would say that you can have Resurrection available, and yet keep the threat of death very prominent. I would use the movie The Mummy as an example. You can make a Resurrection spell a ritual, with multiple casters coupled with some rare material components.

 

I kind of like the idea that a corpse being raised is kept alive by magic. The only way to truly bring a person back from the dead, is at the cost of another life. While the person brought back by magic is still alive, that person will become susceptible to various anti-magics. Of course, a Dispel Magic would have to be very powerful to overcome a ritual...

[Nolgroth]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Interesting thoughts Lezentauw. I can see how some forms of Undead could be created that way.

 

For myself, I sort of take the whole Greco-Roman myth thing into account. If you want to resurrect somebody, you travel into the Realm of the Dead, find them and then make a bargain with the God of Death to allow the spirit to return back to his body. Assuming, of course, that the spirit even wants to go back. And that whole process is never as simple as it sounds.

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

One problem I've always had with raising the dead as persons is what sort of afterlife are they leaving behind? To use an infamous pop culture example, if the afterlife you've qualified for is a good one you'll be most displeased to be pulled back into the mortal world if you have no power to veto the arrangement. "I live in Hell since I've been expelled from Heaven" is the result.

 

In a more Eastern worldview, resurrection in the form of reincarnation is a fact of life. You might only have a very short window of time between the death of a person and his being reborn to another life in which he has no memory of the old one. Only very special people would have any awareness at all of their past lives -- two people who were enemies centuries ago in other lives could well be friends, allies or lovers now. But actually raising an individual from the dead as his original self might well be impossible

 

And in an atheistic cosmos you have no say in the matter at all. There wouldn't be a soul to return to a body. Dead is dead, period.

[Ragitsu]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

One problem I've always had with raising the dead as persons is what sort of afterlife are they leaving behind? To use an infamous pop culture example' date=' if the afterlife you've qualified for is a good one you'll be most displeased to be pulled back into the mortal world if you have no power to veto the arrangement. "I live in Hell since I've been expelled from Heaven" is the result.[/quote']

 

Good point. However, the right types (self-sacrificing, do-gooders, Paladins, etc) would easily jump on the train back to Mortalsville.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

And in an atheistic cosmos you have no say in the matter at all. There wouldn't be a soul to return to a body. Dead is dead' date=' period.[/quote']

 

On the other hand, no soul may mean raising the dead is even easier as you don't have to deal with all afterlife/spirit stuff. It's just a matter of repairing the body properly.

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Rep for quoting Buffy.

[Lucius]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

And in an atheistic cosmos you have no say in the matter at all. There wouldn't be a soul to return to a body. Dead is dead, period.

 

Atheistic means no God or Gods - one could have an afterlife without Gods.

 

And as Bigbywolfe points out, if you have a materialistic "clockwork" cosmos, raising the dead is cosmologically even simpler - it's repairing and rebooting a machine.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Clockwork palindromedary

[Markdoc]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Good point. However' date=' the right types (self-sacrificing, do-gooders, Paladins, etc) would easily jump on the train back to Mortalsville.[/quote']

 

Order of the Stick covers this pretty well. When Roy dies, although he has earned his reward, he hangs around hoping his friends will resurrect him so he can take care of unfinished business. He's not worried about leaving heaven since he knows it exists and that as long as he does the right thing, he'll be going back once he's finished.

 

cheers, Mark

[Ragitsu]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Order of the Stick covers this pretty well. When Roy dies, although he has earned his reward, he hangs around hoping his friends will resurrect him so he can take care of unfinished business. He's not worried about leaving heaven since he knows it exists and that as long as he does the right thing, he'll be going back once he's finished.

 

cheers, Mark

 

I imagine that some would go back, even if they knew or did know for certain that they could get back to their version of Heaven.

[Lucius]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

For that matter, you could have Gods but no afterlife.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

You could have a tagline without a palindromedary

[Michael Hopcroft]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

On the other hand' date=' no soul may mean raising the dead is even easier as you don't have to deal with all afterlife/spirit stuff. It's just a matter of repairing the body properly.[/quote']

 

That would be a very difficult task depending on the damage the body took. Especially in cultures with little practical knowledge of anatomy! If the brain is somehow destroyed or damaged, personality will not come back -- but fantasy-worlders may not know this. For example the Egyptians thought the brain was a useless piece of tissue and didn't even bother to preserve it in the mummification process -- I wonder why they didn't make the intuitive leap when they realized that nobody ever survived having their head cut off!

 

You would also have a very limited resurrection window before the body lost all viability. You would have a very short period of time to use your magic to repair the fatal damage -- a few days at most, likely a few hours -- before you end up bringing back a physical and mental cripple.

 

It is very hard to get players who were raised as scientific moderns to think is more "primitive" ways.

[Alcamtar]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Good point. However' date=' the right types (self-sacrificing, do-gooders, Paladins, etc) would easily jump on the train back to Mortalsville.[/quote']

If they have the opportunity - you may have to get past the deity before you can reach the servant. It is easy to imagine a diety of justice and mercy refusing.

 

PC: "I request permission to resurrect Jim-Bob"

Deity: "No, he is at peace now."

PC: "Um. Maybe I could just ask him? I am sure he would not refuse, especially since his dear grandmother is in danger."

Deity: "That is precisely why I will not allow you to ask him. He is now free of his worries, and his grandmother will join him soon enough. I will not put him in the position of having to choose."

 

With that sort of deity resurrections would likely be rare indeed. Of course then the PCs might do an end-run around the deity and summon the deceased through necromancy. Can a resurrectee be hostile toward his summoner? Perhaps tack on a Psychological Complication or two...

 

PsychLim: Bitter and Conflicted, wants to return to Heaven, prone to daydreaming about it (Common, Strong)

PsychLim: Death Wish, cares nothing for his personal safety (Common, Total)

 

You could also have a limited resurrection: as soon as a certain task is completed the resurrectee is translated directly to heaven. This could lead either to single minded pursuit of the task, or avoidance, depending on the character. Maybe he is on the verge of achieving it, and then he falls in love... but his love remains in great peril until the task is accomplished...

[dmjalund]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

A possibility that those who spurn heaven to be resurrected might not be allowed back in.

[Alibear]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

In my world it's tricky magic and only been pulled off by two people in history: Vlad Hann von Hannenheim - the original and most powerful vampyr and father of necromancy, and a mellenia long dead Dragon Lord who left his 'soul' in his armour so he could awaken and wreak havoc sometime down the line.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

That would be a very difficult task depending on the damage the body took. Especially in cultures with little practical knowledge of anatomy! If the brain is somehow destroyed or damaged, personality will not come back -- but fantasy-worlders may not know this. For example the Egyptians thought the brain was a useless piece of tissue and didn't even bother to preserve it in the mummification process -- I wonder why they didn't make the intuitive leap when they realized that nobody ever survived having their head cut off!

 

You would also have a very limited resurrection window before the body lost all viability. You would have a very short period of time to use your magic to repair the fatal damage -- a few days at most, likely a few hours -- before you end up bringing back a physical and mental cripple.

 

It is very hard to get players who were raised as scientific moderns to think is more "primitive" ways.

 

Not to overly simplify my disagreement with you, but, it's magic.

[OddHat]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Not to overly simplify my disagreement with you' date=' but, [i']it's magic[/i].

 

Yup. Even in sci-fi, clone body + brain tape is a common way to bring back a dead character. "Sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from science." - Pratchett

[bigbywolfe]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Exactly. If magic can revive the dead (not just re-animate, but actually revive) taking the afterlife out of the picture makes it that much simpler. There is no "summoning his spirit from hell", or "ripping his soul from the paradise of heaven", or all that "don't look back as you leave the underworld" type hubbub. It's just, "Bamf! You're alive." Saying that they would need a detailed knowledge of anatomy and a better understanding of how the brain works than we currently do and have a time limit would be like saying a lightning mage in the setting must know the intricate details of every possible type of weather system and it probably needs to already be storming for him to cast a thunderbolt. If that's how you want to run your setting, fine, but it is not a natural result of not having an afterlife/spirtitual side to the world/campaign.

[Zeropoint]

Re: "Raise Dead" / "Resurrection": for those of you that DO, how do you handle...

 

Here's how it goes in my world:

 

Upon dying, a character will be visited by the Lady of Sorrow, who will comfort them and offer to explain things and guide them to the afterlife. Should the character so choose, he/she will be allowed up to three days (defined as three sunrises and three sunsets) to linger in the shadow of the mortal realm and come to terms with death before moving on. Anyone who's still around after this time is probably someone you DON'T WANT to bring back, for a variety of reasons.

 

Within that window, restoring someone to life is a possible but difficult process of re-unifying the body, spirit, and soul. First, the body must be obtained and restored to viable condition, and maintained that way. Keeping a corpse in perfect live condition is NOT easy.

 

Second, enough spiritual energy must be accumulated to successfully bind body and soul together. This is obviously difficult because the ritual is not 100% efficient and thus more than one complete person's worth of spirit is required. Skillful EVIL sorcerers could theoretically do it by killing two people as part of a ritual and trapping their spirit; three would be more likely. Obviously, non-evil resurrections will involve a much larger number of people donating non-fatal amounts of spirit (and finding that many people willing to do so could be tricky).

 

And finally, now that you've got a viable, spirit-infused body lying there, you have to make sure that something else doesn't get in first.

 

If you can manage all that, then you're ready to re-install the soul into the body!