Is Defender the new Seeker?

[Escafarc]

Looking thru Champion Powers and I notice a lot of pics of him getting it handed to him. It's got to be the new helmet Dr. Fate could of told him the Half-Helm just doesn't work.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Hey Fate's Half Helm worked just fine when Dr. Fate decided he didn't want to be anything more then a Brick with some KS: Occultist......HOWEVER, that being said.....

 

Defender IS, the new Seeker. Tron called, he wants his suit back.

 

~Rex

[srvronsim1]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Nah, Defender would actually have to have a personality first...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Cryptic Studios seems to have made Defender the CU's flagship superhero. This may be an example of the "Worf syndrome;" if you want your bad-guy to look tough, show him pwning the guy with the rep.

[Escafarc]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Cryptic Studios seems to have made Defender the CU's flagship superhero. This may be an example of the "Worf syndrome;" if you want your bad-guy to look tough' date=' show him pwning the guy with the rep.[/quote']

 

So I guess no one told them about The Seeker Syndrome heh?

[srvronsim1]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

So I guess no one told them about The Seeker Syndrome heh?

 

Well, to be fair... anytime someone brings up Seeker to Steve Long he puts his hands on his ears and says "Nyeah Nyeah Nyeah, I can't hear you!"

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Well, Mr.Long has the right to hate Seeker of he wants. It's his money at stake. Defender is the most iconic hero left in the CU. Everyone easily gets that concept, and he is all square-jawed and forthright.

 

Me, I would plaster Foxbat over everything.

[jms1973]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Please, not Foxbat plastered everywhere! (Although, I'm sure its all part of his Master Plan.)

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Rather have Foxbat then Then the Defender-Tron ......I hate that look.....Not to mention his write up in Champions seems to have a power missing according to his description......

 

If it weren't for the seperate Helm, that gets slapped off his face by the Grond-Hulk every other picture, I'd be more accepting of the guy and his new look.

 

~Rex

[Cybertooth]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Eh...Older Champions' characters rule!!!

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Bring back the Real Team!

 

~Rex

[Escafarc]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

I've been thinking(I know that never ends well) about it. To pull off the half-mask thing you got to have stones like Hawkman(though he once did the whole mask ), Batman, Captain America(his is more of a Third-mask since it doesn't cover his nose).

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Defender has no Stones.....Hawkman is so Scarey he ranks in Batman's Top 5 of worst people to fight, Captain America, is Captain America (either Rogers or Barnes.....never felt Walker cut it, though the 50's Rogers can be a scarey handful, heh)....

 

Yeah you gotta be....Stone Heavy to pull off the Half Mask.

 

~Rex

[assault]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Defender is the most iconic hero left in the CU. Everyone easily gets that concept' date=' and he is all square-jawed and forthright.[/quote']

 

Personality-wise, Defender is the Superman Geek Hate version of Superman - the insipid and relentlessly dull version, who would never treat his friends like this.

 

And Nighthawk is the Batman Geek Hate version of Batman - all broody and wangsty and relentlessly dull.

 

Of course, the fact that they are really just example characters means that their scope for personality development is minimal, so it's not surprising that they come out this way.

 

Seeker had the same problem of course, except that (a) he was actually relatively original and ( he was fun. He wasn't just another hackneyed Iron Age drain-the-fun-out-of-everything rehash.

 

Me, I would plaster Foxbat over everything.

 

That's a legitimate option.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

New Defender us not wearing Power Armor, but a Battlesuit for one.

 

For another his is the leader of the most powerful Superhero Team in the Champion Online.

 

Needs fixing

 

QM

[Alverant]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Defender is the most iconic hero left in the CU. Everyone easily gets that concept' date=' and he is all square-jawed and forthright.[/quote']

Then why did he let Cryptic give him that horrible suit? It would be like giving the role of Iron Man to Gilbert Gottfried.

[srvronsim1]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Well, Mr.Long has the right to hate Seeker of he wants. It's his money at stake. Defender is the most iconic hero left in the CU. Everyone easily gets that concept, and he is all square-jawed and forthright.

 

Me, I would plaster Foxbat over everything.

 

True enough, and cash flow is the most important thing in business... but that being said, sometimes it's not about what you want, but about what pays the bill. And square-jawed and forthright is good and all, but most of the time for people to identify and use a character you need more than that.

 

I agree with Steve Long 95% of the time, but a few of the characters need to breathe. Personally, I'd have kittens if he'd update Predator from Justice, Not Law for 6E,

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Then why did he let Cryptic give him that horrible suit? It would be like giving the role of Iron Man to Gilbert Gottfried.

 

Yeah, I hate the redesign too, but the CU really doesn't have a Superman or a Captain America. It's really up to Defender to hold down that role.

 

Maybe if they ever do Silver Age Champions we'll get some characters in that mold.

 

True enough, and cash flow is the most important thing in business... but that being said, sometimes it's not about what you want, but about what pays the bill. And square-jawed and forthright is good and all, but most of the time for people to identify and use a character you need more than that.

 

I agree with Steve Long 95% of the time, but a few of the characters need to breathe. Personally, I'd have kittens if he'd update Predator from Justice, Not Law for 6E,

 

I don't remember Predator, but I'm such a grognard that still miss Crusader and Starburst. Crusader had that cute little shield and the glider wings after all.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Personality-wise' date=' Defender is the Superman Geek Hate version of Superman - the insipid and relentlessly dull version, who would never treat his friends like this.

 

And Nighthawk is the Batman Geek Hate version of Batman - all broody and wangsty and relentlessly dull.

 

Of course, the fact that they are really just example characters means that their scope for personality development is minimal, so it's not surprising that they come out this way.

 

Seeker had the same problem of course, except that (a) he was actually relatively original and ( he was fun. He wasn't just another hackneyed Iron Age drain-the-fun-out-of-everything rehash.

 

 

 

That's a legitimate option.

and THAT'Swhy i like martial arts heroes

[AnotherSkip]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

uhm epic fail when your gritty hero has any part of his equipment called 'cute'.

[Alverant]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Yeah' date=' I hate the redesign too, but the CU really doesn't have a Superman or a Captain America. It's really up to Defender to hold down that role.[/quote']

I agree that someone has to hold down the role. And Defender has been the flagship hero for 4th and 5th editions. But his armor should actually look like armor. Fix that and most of the complaints about him (well at least mine) will go away.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here and say that I thought there was absolutely nothing memorable in the character designs of Defender in 4th or 5th ed. Despite the talent of the artists involved, he always visually came across as a 3rd rate Iron Man clone. Even Marvel's Guardsman had a better design.

 

This is one of those cases where I say "screw common sense". If a more tights oriented design worked for Jim Hudson's power armor, it can work for James Harmon. The 6th edition design of Defender looks far more iconic without being a blatant copy of an established hero. Sure, he looks more like "superhero leader" than "power armor hero", but given he *is* a leader, the visuals are telling the appropriate story.

 

Now whether Defender's elevation to "leader of the world's greatest hero team" is appropriate and whether his treatment in the MMO appropriately reflects that status is a much different debate, because I don't think it does. However, I do think his visuals are much improved over past editions in reflecting the most important role of his character.

 

It's true that his personality of "stalwart leader who's driven by a sense of duty and family tradition" is pretty stock. but there are enough quirky characters in the Champions that Harmon's personality provides a good contrast with the other members of his team and explains the Champions' longevity -- Harmon's the glue that holds the team together. Not everyone *should* be the quirky guy. And not every character needs to strike that special chord with you.

 

Harmon would normally develop in play, as a character in a comic, or in game by a player. I certainly wouldn't mind playing him, but I often enjoy playing characters that other people have ridiculed -- playing both Seeker and Nighthawk at cons were great fun and far from one dimensional once I got my teeth into the characters and brought them to life. Some characters do need actual play to bring them to their full potential, and others that are amusing on paper fall a little flat on the gaming table, especially when their quirks have hemmed in their development and people have gotten tired of their schtick. The play's the thing.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Yeah, I hate the redesign too, but the CU really doesn't have a Superman or a Captain America. It's really up to Defender to hold down that role.

 

Maybe if they ever do Silver Age Champions we'll get some characters in that mold.

 

Strictly speaking, the CU does have an active Captain America analogue, the All-American. Since 1969, five men and one woman have worn the flag-styled costume and received the "Perseus treatments" to enhance their physical and mental abilities to "peak level human." The All-American is today widely considered by the American public and the world to be America's "official superhero," embodying heroic patriotism and the country's ideals. (See Champions Universe for details.)

 

The CU also had a Superman analogue, Vanguard; but he's long dead, so we're unlikely to see his stats unless and until Silver Age Champions is written (unless his recent undead reanimation by Takofanes during the "Blood Moon" incident gets written up).

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

I'm going to be the voice of dissent here and say that I thought there was absolutely nothing memorable in the character designs of Defender in 4th or 5th ed. Despite the talent of the artists involved, he always visually came across as a 3rd rate Iron Man clone. Even Marvel's Guardsman had a better design.

 

This is one of those cases where I say "screw common sense". If a more tights oriented design worked for Jim Hudson's power armor, it can work for James Harmon. The 6th edition design of Defender looks far more iconic withoiut being a blatant copy of an established hero. Sure, he looks more like "superhero leader" than "power armor hero", but given he *is* a leader, the visuals are telling the appropriate story.

 

Here, here! I for one dislike the recent trend to make powered armor look clunkily mechanical for the sake of "realism." Anyone stressing over realism in their superhero games or comics is IMHO kinda missing the point. Defender's newest look reminds me of classic Silver/ Bronze Age Iron Man, metallic but still sleek and superhero-y.

 

A lot of the protest over Defender's helmet seems to focus on the open-face-and-neck look. To me that seems appropriate to Cryptic Studios' presentation of him as the premier "face" of superheroes for this generation, since completely covering his face with a helmet implies he has something to hide. It's not necessarily a weakness or design flaw given comic-book physics. As Scott mentions, Marvel's James Hudson/Guardian used a similar design based on force-fields, so it's easy to say that's what James Harmon's armor uses.

 

Otherwise, this controversy reminds me of protests over the beak on Nighthawk's headgear -- excessive scorn based on a minor esthetic detail.

 

Now whether Defender's elevation to "leader of the world's greatest hero team" is appropriate and whether his treatment in the MMO appropriately reflects that status is a much different debate' date=' because I don't think it does. However, I do think his visuals are much improved over past editions in reflecting the most important role of his character.[/quote']

 

Agree with both points.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Speaking of Iron Man, it surprized me they didn't run with the similarities give how hot a property Iron Man is. Closed faceplate works for him. Cool techy looking armor works for him. etc.