Is Defender the new Seeker?

[Sweeper]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Pretty much in all versions' date=' Defender is the founder/main sponser of the team.[/quote']

 

Well... Champions: The New Millennium had him as a Teenager with the Armor and a support team made up of his friends.

 

Ah, quit it. I rather liked the setting myself.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Defender of C:NM was basically the "uni frat boy football player" version and only one I've really, really, liked, if only for the humour value. 5e Defender I've never been keen on, and 6e Defender is just pathetic.

 

So, no, he's not my favourite character (but how can you build a decent character on 350 points?).

[Sweeper]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

So' date=' no, he's not my favourite character (but how can you build a decent character on 350 points?).[/quote']

 

Define decent. I've witnessed really good games with characters built on the 25-50 point range.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Tell you what, you build the Powered Armor with the Vehicle Rules, and you can have Defender Shatter of Worlds (With SKILLS even), relatively quickly.

 

I still liked the direction the NM Defender went. May get around to a 6e conversion for that....some interesting ways to structure the support team for that guy in 6e...

 

As for Seeker. Still hate him....but I think Defender Tron annoys me even more, heh. Or is it Iron-Sparta now? Really the only current Champion I actually don't mind is Kinetic, everyone else has something incredibly annoying about them I just want to nitpick to death. I'd actually rate Nighthawk as more disliked then Seeker in my book though.....granted....it's because of the Outfit and the Name more then the attitude, but I'd probably have Jaguar eat Nighthawk first, then Seeker, then Defender in that Order.

 

~Rex

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

As a drama teacher, I always encourage my students to try to draw distinctions between entertainments they see or read that they don't like (a perfectly valid reaction) and things that might be considered "bad" by some objective standard. IME many people equate "I don't like it" with "it's no good," as if a subjective response has inherent validity for anyone but the responder. I often find myself respecting the thought and skill that goes into producing a movie, television show, novel, comic, etc. even if I personally don't enjoy the finished product; or admitting that I enjoyed something despite its obvious technical flaws.

 

There have been members of every incarnation of the Champions team that I liked, and others I disliked; but there's been little about them that I thought was "wrong." I appreciated the balanced mix of abilities and personalities in the 4E, 5E, and NM Champions. (I do believe the lack of a dedicated detective type on the 6E team is a conceptual weakness, though.) IMO Defender's background, personality, and look works for the role Hero Games and Cryptic Studios has set for him, whether or not I like the character myself.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

My Champions would be a six person team consisting of:

 

Defender (6)

Ironclad (5/6) (I finally came around to liking the big lug.)

Solitaire (4) (I like Witchcraft's power set more)

Sapphirre (5/6)

Seeker (4)

Nighthawk (5)

 

with Kinetik and Dr. Silverback as reservists, and Quantum as an ex-member who occasionally makes guest appearances. There would also be Gauntlet, a young hero that uses the Team Defender gimmick from CNM, as I really liked that too.

[Cardinal]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

I don't have Champion 6E yet nor Champions Universe 6E. How much has changed from 5E?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

The timeline of events up to when the 5E edition of Champions Universe was published in 2002 is virtually unchanged. Many of the subsequent events related in later books -- adventures like Champions Battlegrounds, Shades Of Black, and Sharper Than A Serpent's Tooth, as well as sourcebooks like Champions Worldwide and News Of The World -- have also been incorporated. Major events from Champions Online are also part of official PnP continuity now: the second Qularr invasion, the Blood Moon, the Lemurian civil war; as well as new locations such as Burning Sands, and new Cryptic-created characters who will appear in the appropriate books.

 

Many existing characters have been given new looks, and in some cases tweaks to their backgrounds and abilities. The biggest difference in that category is that Cryptic's version of Dr. Destroyer, aka "Shadow Destroyer," has been active since 2002, while the original Dr. D is still MIA.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

But that still leaves us with the current Defender occupying Seeker's old niche in the Food Chain.....

 

~Rex

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

s brings an interesting question to mindif without the armored powersuit how capable is james harmon ?would he be of help or the ultimate victim?

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Ultimate Victim. Granted his skill set is better in the CU write up......but the basic starting Defender, outside the suit would get mulched by mooks.

 

~Rex

[Checkmate]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

I kinda liked the CNM version of Defender' date=' but I don't think that would work well in CO.[/quote']

He is one of my all time favorite Champion's Character from any edition. I have a character that's based on him, that I've been dying to use, just haven't gotten the chance yet.

Defender is no Marksman.

 

~Rex

Amen brother.

[Checkmate]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Unfortunately or otherwise, Defender is the most serious contender for leader of the Champions (any edition, although I'm unfamiliar with the 6e version). Let's face it, there's only so many rich white American males in the team, and Nighthawk is a fool. Australians, aliens and latinos need not apply.

 

Could the Champions have a female leader? Well, yes, but neither of the female members of the 5e team could do it, and there's no chance of the 4e women coming back.

 

So yes, it's Defender.

 

Now, if Seeker was to organise a team in Australia....

 

That would be a perfect use for Seeker in the CU, and why he should be brought back.

 

Nazi Science Seeker from CNM was ridiculous. Talk about hackneyed origins.

Really? Because they seem like pretty much the same origin to me. "Bad guy" from WWII train someone to be a Ninja. One's genetically engineered (not sure why so many people see that and immediately throw up) one is an Australian who likes to show off (like any good Ninja).

 

Not that I liked either one I kind of liked that the CNM one was more of a Batman/team scientist, and if you changed the Ninja to Karate Master in the other one, he would have been more palatable.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Seeker annoys. At least CNM Seeker fit tyhe Comic Feel of the time. Not to mention, he looked like a Super Hero Martial Artist, and his background, was not unsimilar to many other comic martial Artists as the time. He was a More Workable Seeker (though I still disliked him for being Seeker), but the CNM Defender, was a Great set up and Idea, that would have made for a good comic book as well.

 

Current Defender-Tron, not so much.

 

~Rex.....Thinks 6e Defender should have to go 6 rounds with the entire team rouster of the Real Champions before he gets to call himself leader.

 

The Real line up there (well, 90% of them, Gargoyle should be around somewhere, heh)..> then Current Line Up.....

 

~Rex Redeux

[assault]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

It's easy to fix the original Seeker. Just work with this:

 

"Early in 1942 the Japanese Army swept through the South Pacific towards the Australian mainland. They overran the Malay Peninsula and reached deep into the jungles of New Guinea. As a result numbers of civilian planters and soldiers were formed into highly trained espionage teams by Allied Headquarters in Australia. These men were directed into sabotage operations deep behind enemy lines throughout the Pacific area. Much of their work must remain top secret. One of these groups may well have been called: Spyforce."

 

This, incidentally, would work exceedingly well with a Pacific theatre based Golden Age game.

 

Survivors of such groups would be obvious teachers for postwar martial artists. There's no good reason not to have a Japanese defector involved either, bringing us back to Seeker's original origin.

 

"Ninja", of course, might not be literally correct, but it's reasonable enough to have been an incorrect description that stuck.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

The only thing I found annoying was Seeker's 25 STR, and his shirtless apperance. But his origin never did. Never could understand the hate some people had of him.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

It's mostly because, Out of all the people on the cover of the BBB, Seeker would certainly not be the Last One Standing against Doctor Destroyer, heh. Also, he was the first person to Seriously be printed up in a supplement, where he just breaks a Rule.....if I recall....Martial Art Stances were not supposed to be allowed for a Multi Power, and then right after the page that says that, Poof there you get another Seeker Write Up, where he's flaunting his Connections by having a Multipower the previous pages told you you couldn't have.

 

Aside from that, he was a Gimp. Not a horrible Character, but compared to all the other CU martial Artists, he was a Gimp.

 

~Rex

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

It's mostly because' date=' Out of all the people on the cover of the BBB, Seeker would certainly not be the Last One Standing against Doctor Destroyer, heh.[/quote'] He'd be the last one standing because Doctor Destroyer would have concentrated on the real threats first, starting with Defender and moving on. Seeker would get pounded right after the little old lady that helped Crusader out in an example in 2e.

[DusterBoy]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

But I thought we were arguing that Defender wasn't a real threat to Dr Destroyer. . . or is that just the new 6ed faux-Tron version?

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

If one goes by the game mechanics, particularly compared to 5e Destroyer, it's hard to think of any of the Champions who are a physical threat to Dr. D.

 

Fiortunately, heroism doesn't always pay attention to game stats.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Even at Seeker's Best Write Up, he wouldn't last long enough against any version of Doctor Destroyer, to leave a carbon soot outline of his previous location against the nearest Backdrop. The Current Defender, occupies that niche now, since Seeker was basically replaced by Not So Nighthawk, aka He who posesses the darkwing Duck cape/cowl combo with metal cross your heart bra action. So since no Nighthawk in the official line up other then as an angsty Iron Age guy glowering at criminals in the dark on the reserve list, and no Seeker, that leaves, DEFENDER-TRON!.....Who, with his new look would have stepped forward past the other two anyway.

 

~Rex

[Greywind]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

[assault]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

Even at Seeker's Best Write Up' date=' he wouldn't last long enough against any version of Doctor Destroyer,[/quote']

 

1st/2nd Edition Destroyer, maybe.

[RexMundi]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

1st/2nd Edition Destroyer' date=' maybe.[/quote']

 

Well, Standing next to the 1st/2nd Ed Destroyer, I'd say Seeker and any version of Defender would be a better looking character , but not sure they would win. Still, back in that day there were some pretty interesting build possibilities, heh.

 

~Rex.....still says, Defender is the New Seeker, and neither hold a Candle to Marksman. WOULD probably be more excepting of the Current Champions line up, if Defender has a Full face battle suit, with lots of cool Adam Strange Raanian Tech Hard Light construct stuff, and of course, they would just KILL Ironclad, and replace him with a proper Brick, that has Growth.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Is Defender the new Seeker?

 

As the CU's official #1 Villainous Bada$$, it's unfair to expect any hero to stand up to Dr. Destroyer alone. Since Seeker's specialty was the skill to avoid getting hit, he might be the logical Champion to last longest against Dr. D. Not to win, mind you, just last.

 

I hope we someday get to see stats for a few more of the CU's heavyweight heroes to see how they compare to the Big Bads: Albion, Hyperion, Ushas, Robert Caliburn now that he's Archmage. Vanguard's character sheet will probably have to wait until Silver Age Champions.