Lord Liaden Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Speaking of Iron Man' date=' it surprized me they didn't run with the similarities give how hot a property Iron Man is. Closed faceplate works for him. Cool techy looking armor works for him. etc.[/quote'] The main armor in the film series is pretty sleek-surfaced for machinery, and the briefcase-armor is almost metallic spandex. And Robert Downey's faceplate is generally open during interactions with other characters, to allow him to use facial expressions to convey character. OTOH the current popularity of Iron Man might have been one reason for Cryptic to elevate Defender's status. Well, that and their decision to make the top villain in their game an alternate-world version of James Harmon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom 2009 Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Here, here! I for one dislike the recent trend to make powered armor look clunkily mechanical for the sake of "realism." Anyone stressing over realism in their superhero games or comics is IMHO kinda missing the point. Defender's newest look reminds me of classic Silver/ Bronze Age Iron Man, metallic but still sleek and superhero-y. A lot of the protest over Defender's helmet seems to focus on the open-face-and-neck look. To me that seems appropriate to Cryptic Studios' presentation of him as the premier "face" of superheroes for this generation, since completely covering his face with a helmet implies he has something to hide. It's not necessarily a weakness or design flaw given comic-book physics. As Scott mentions, Marvel's James Hudson/Guardian used a similar design based on force-fields, so it's easy to say that's what James Harmon's armor uses. Otherwise, this controversy reminds me of protests over the beak on Nighthawk's headgear -- excessive scorn based on a minor esthetic detail. Agree with both points. Now, now -- let's not go dissin' on the "clunkily mechanical" look where powered armor or battlesuits are concerned. Remember the 80's series Super Force (sort of like Iron Man meets Street Hawk)? That battlesuit was clunkily mechanical after a fashion, but it still kicked major a$$ when the situation called for it. Major Tom 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Harmon would normally develop in play' date=' as a character in a comic, or in game by a player. I certainly wouldn't mind playing him, but I often enjoy playing characters that other people have ridiculed -- playing both Seeker and Nighthawk at cons were great fun and far from one dimensional once I got my teeth into the characters and brought them to life. Some characters do need actual play to bring them to their full potential, and others that are amusing on paper fall a little flat on the gaming table, especially when their quirks have hemmed in their development and people have gotten tired of their schtick. The play's the thing.[/quote'] Anyone considering Seeker one-dimensional would do well to look up Watchers of the Dragon. The prose story running through that book (written by Steve Long, ironically enough) presents Seeker as a character with a lot of adventuring behind him, and having grown from such just as Scott describes above -- layered and facetted, his unique personality intact but enriched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Now, now -- let's not go dissin' on the "clunkily mechanical" look where powered armor or battlesuits are concerned. Remember the 80's series Super Force (sort of like Iron Man meets Street Hawk)? That battlesuit was clunkily mechanical after a fashion, but it still kicked major a$$ when the situation called for it. Major Tom 2009 I would never say that clunky and kicka$$ are mutually exclusive concepts. I would just be less inclined to enjoy watching said a$$ be kicked. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? And Robert Downey's faceplate is generally open during interactions with other characters, to allow him to use facial expressions to convey character. Following up on this point, you might notice that when Tony Stark's armor was drawn in the comics with eye and mouth slits rather than a solid faceplate and interior HUD, his eyes and mouth showing through, and the angles the slits were drawn at at particular moments, allowed for considerable "facial" expression even with his helmet closed. This is one example of what works in a graphic format that doesn't work as well in live action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Strictly speaking' date=' the CU does have an active Captain America analogue, the [b']All-American[/b]. Since 1969, five men and one woman have worn the flag-styled costume and received the "Perseus treatments" to enhance their physical and mental abilities to "peak level human." The All-American is today widely considered by the American public and the world to be America's "official superhero," embodying heroic patriotism and the country's ideals. (See Champions Universe for details.) The CU also had a Superman analogue, Vanguard; but he's long dead, so we're unlikely to see his stats unless and until Silver Age Champions is written (unless his recent undead reanimation by Takofanes during the "Blood Moon" incident gets written up). The All-American fills me with great hatred, I hate the name. I hate the costume design. I hate the build. Freaking throwing stars for a flagsuit? Really?! I apologize to whoever created him, it's just a personal peeve. I know Marvel did something similar when they made Patriot, but I hated that character too. I'm sure I have some builds out there that others would severely dislike. I would like to see Vanguard's build one day. Hopefully, we will eventually get both new Golden Age and Silver Age Champions books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted September 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? The All-American is just Yankee Poodle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Personally, I didn't like Defender's new look simply because he looked rather silly when compared to past versions. Now he looks like a gray-scale version of what'shisname from City of Heroes, or maybe an updated costume of Commander Courage from that most excellent Mockumenetry, Comic Book: The Movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? I kinda liked the CNM version of Defender, but I don't think that would work well in CO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? The All-American fills me with great hatred, I hate the name. I hate the costume design. I hate the build. Freaking throwing stars for a flagsuit? Really?! I apologize to whoever created him, it's just a personal peeve. I know Marvel did something similar when they made Patriot, but I hated that character too. I'm sure I have some builds out there that others would severely dislike. I would like to see Vanguard's build one day. Hopefully, we will eventually get both new Golden Age and Silver Age Champions books. Yeah HATE the All American as well......I'm fairly certain, that's Just Seeker in a Flag Suit, after some voice lessons..... Of course back in the 4th Ed Days, I had all the Champions trapped on Gilligans Island, and eventually Jaguar eats them all...... 5th Ed I just kept using the Champions as presented in New Millenium, heh. I liked that version (The CNM one) of Defender actually..... 6th...I just got done with a CU game where all of the Champions get killed.....Defender Tron gets killed by a called shot to the face.....everyone else dies horribly, and the Real Nighthawks from various comic labels show up, team up with Super Science Ninja Team Gatchaman, and slap the Duck Suit and cowl off of the CU Nighthawk, whom all my players refer to as Not-Nighthawk...and the list goes on.... All the jesting aside....(Oh Merry Anderew sent in a letter saying HE has a Battle Suit as well.....but it looks more serious then Defender's....).... Defender is no Marksman. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? How did Defender become team leader anyways? He's always lacked the "gotta look good in front of the camera" necessity of leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Who else is gonna lead? Ironclad? They had to give old Bumpy Brow a Sword and a "This is Sparta!" outfit...... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahuna's bro Posted September 5, 2010 Report Share Posted September 5, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? isn't defender the FOUNDER of the champions?or was that retconed for 6thed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQuestionMan Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? 4e Champions = 5e &6e Champions Defender = Defender Seeker = Nighthawk/Kinetik/Nightwind Obsidian = Iron Clad Solitaire = Witchcraft Jaguar = Dr. Silverback Quantum = Sapphire IMOHO QM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? isn't defender the FOUNDER of the champions?or was that retconed for 6thed? Pretty much in all versions, Defender is the founder/main sponser of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Doesn't make him the leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Who else is going to do it? There isn't anyone else on the roster who could reasonably fill the slot. I think Nighthawk is vast improvement over Seeker, but he's not the guy I would follow. The CU is short on hero groups that are actually developed enough to play fantasy football with. The only other real leader type I've seen in published material was Justiciar from COTN, and I 'm not the biggest fan of his power set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Tony Stark funded the Avengers, but he was only the leader when he was voted to the spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadborder Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Bah, Seeker is better then Nighthawk any day. Now if I was building my "ultimate" version of the champions from those two teams, hmmm... *Defender (Given. Same guy, but at leas I'd use his 5E costume) *Quantum (I allways thought she had a lot of potential as a character and a potential second. Sapphite leaves me flat and feels too 'trendy' for my tastes) *Ironclad (I prefer his "boisterous bruiser" persona over Obsidian being permenetly up himself) *Witchcraft/Solitare (Um, much of mucness, really. Defender aside, they're the most interchanble) *Seker (CRIKEY!) Which leaves the "Sixth man" position. Kinetic and Jaguar have nothing in common whatsoever, but are in contention for the slot. Still, I'd give it to Kinetic becuse he's more interesting, more memorable and, above all else, not Jaguar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Who else is going to do it? There isn't anyone else on the roster who could reasonably fill the slot. I think Nighthawk is vast improvement over Seeker, but he's not the guy I would follow. The CU is short on hero groups that are actually developed enough to play fantasy football with. The only other real leader type I've seen in published material was Justiciar from COTN, and I 'm not the biggest fan of his power set. Well, we also have Black Rose, Tomahawk and Quantum, but the point stands. It's interesting that Justiciar is also a flag suit. Is that some kind of implicit prerequisite for a 'true' leader type these days. (Of course, as a Torontonian wearing a Maple Leafs jersey, I hate him in spite of his being a flag suit. But that there's a Canadian thing, and as a figurative Maple Leaf, his power suite pretty much has to suck, anyway. The lifestyle thing? You have to wonder if Wendell Clark knows about this.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Unfortunately or otherwise, Defender is the most serious contender for leader of the Champions (any edition, although I'm unfamiliar with the 6e version). Let's face it, there's only so many rich white American males in the team, and Nighthawk is a fool. Australians, aliens and latinos need not apply. Could the Champions have a female leader? Well, yes, but neither of the female members of the 5e team could do it, and there's no chance of the 4e women coming back. So yes, it's Defender. Now, if Seeker was to organise a team in Australia.... That would be a perfect use for Seeker in the CU, and why he should be brought back. Nazi Science Seeker from CNM was ridiculous. Talk about hackneyed origins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? Well' date=' we also have Black Rose, Tomahawk and Quantum, but the point stands. It's interesting that Justiciar is also a flag suit. Is that some kind of implicit prerequisite for a 'true' leader type these days. (Of course, as a Torontonian wearing a Maple Leafs jersey, I hate him in spite of his being a flag suit. But that there's a Canadian thing, and as a figurative Maple Leaf, his power suite pretty much has to suck, anyway. The lifestyle thing? You have to wonder if Wendell Clark knows about this.)[/quote'] Though I loved CU:NOTW, I didn't really groove on any of the team leaders. I really loved of the individual hero write-ups, though. Bravo, The Drifter, and Diamond were all great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawnmower Boy Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? The Justice Squadron/Sentinels writeups were works of art. I loved the way that so many of the Sentinels had Justice Squadron equivalents who were much more effective characters built on fewer points. I loved the inventiveness of some of the power builds, notably Blink and Diadem. And they're both packed with plot hooks. "the emergence of the monstrous Mardoom-Thah from his frozen tomb beneath the Antarctic ice...", "Korrex the Time King..." the only disappointing character is Tomahawk, who just isn't as formidable as he should be. To my mind, being hit by the Dawnfire Tomahawk should hurt, and Macahuitl from Champions Worldwide gets the job done better with the Dispel Magic on his obsidian sword. Admittedly he manages it on 67 more points, but there's no particular reason that Tomahawk has to be a 497 point lightweight --to the contrary! And the susceptibility to non-Chippewan supernatural forces is just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom 2009 Posted September 6, 2010 Report Share Posted September 6, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? I would never say that clunky and kicka$$ are mutually exclusive concepts. I would just be less inclined to enjoy watching said a$$ be kicked. YMMV What's YMMV? Major Tom 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted September 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted September 7, 2010 Re: Is Defender the new Seeker? What's YMMV? Major Tom 2009 Your Mileage May Vary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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