Golden Age Champions

[quozaxx]

There is not a lot of things that I know about The Golden Age (besides what I have read in Champions).

 

I do know that during the late 1930s to the early 1950s is where the era lies. The main focus is fighting Japanese and Nazis. Were there other reoccurring themes?

 

I know that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Captain America, and Captain Marvel (and others) were pivotal in that era. Were they less powerful than in later years? It would seem that anyone as powerful as Superman could just fly over to Hitler and take him down.

 

How do you make a game that comprises more powerful supers (like the Human Torch, Superman, etc) along side of more Combat orientated heroes (like Captain America, Submariner, Bucky, etc)? What points would you base them on to be fair to all players?

 

Did the Nazis have their own super villains (besides the Red Skull)?

 

Are the characters presented in the "Fires of War" book by blackwym games a fair assessment of characters presented at that time period? Or are they a little high on points?

 

And of course any additional information would be helpful too.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

One of the conventions that DC Comics has employed for a long time for its own official Golden Age, is that German mystics used the Spear of Destiny to create a protective spell over all the territories that the Axis nations controlled, preventing Allied superheroes whose powers were magic-based or vulnerable to magic from using their powers in those areas. That covered the mightiest heroes of the era: Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Dr. Fate, the Specter, Green Lantern Alan Scott, etc. The official Champions Universe uses the same convention; only "non-powered" heroes were able to fight in the European theater.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

in the golden agedc kept most heroes statside this was exlained by roy thomas when he wrote in ALLSTAR SQUADRON that when the jsa disbaned to enlist they did so as ordinary men which is what the jsa thought was needed rather than mystery men with special powers

[steriaca]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Well, MOST of the time in the real Golden Age comics, thay faced mostly gainsters and crooks with no powers or costumes. (Batman was the exception on the costume side, but not the no powers side). The only exception which I can think up was Captian Marvel (The Big Red Cheese one), who had his shair of superpowered foes.

 

When the Silver Age became, Marvel tried to explain and expand the 'fact' of superheros and WW2. To Marvel, thay DID go over and fight, under the banner The Invaders, and 'just now' (late 70's and early 80's) there adventures were being declasified. As for DC, thay came up with the Spear of Destiny as an excuse why there supers did not fight in WW2. Not to say thay diden't have there own superteam fighting simpsisters and agents (thay did...the renamed All-Star Squad), and there adventures were also 'just now' being declasified.

 

Me myself, I perfer a universe of superpowered good guys and bad guys over gainsters. So, if I did an 'Golden Age Of Enimies' book, it would be some mad scientists, Boss Kong (a gainster who had his brain placed into a gorilla's body), and of course, vareous natzie agents of some power.

[Clonus]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

There is not a lot of things that I know about The Golden Age (besides what I have read in Champions).

 

I do know that during the late 1930s to the early 1950s is where the era lies. The main focus is fighting Japanese and Nazis.

 

In the real Golden Age the main focus, in the case of Justice Society characters, during the American involvement in World War II was on fighting aliens who acted as stand-ins for Japanese and Nazis. Captain America and Namor fought the Nazis and Japanese. Wonder Woman fought Saturnians and Martians.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know that Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Captain America, and Captain Marvel (and others) were pivotal in that era. Were they less powerful than in later years? It would seem that anyone as powerful as Superman could just fly over to Hitler and take him down.

 

Yeah, he did that once. It was out of continuity of course.

 

 

How do you make a game that comprises more powerful supers (like the Human Torch, Superman, etc) along side of more Combat orientated heroes (like Captain America, Submariner, Bucky, etc)? What points would you base them on to be fair to all players?

 

The Invaders are actually a pretty well matched team. Brick, Flying Zapper with sidekick, Martial Artist/Leader with sidekick. Skills cost points and Cap has the skills in that lineup. Plus that shield. But then they aren't an authentic Golden Age team. They're retro-Golden Age. But they make a good model for a Golden Age campaign. There were no team books in the actual Golden Age. The Justice Society wasn't a team. It was exactly what the label says, a society. They got together to hang out _after_ doing their thing separately.

 

Did the Nazis have their own super villains (besides the Red Skull)?

 

At the time very few. But the retro-Golden Age makes up for that by inserting many supervillains into the past. An accurate reconstruction of the real Golden Age would actually kind of bite.

[Epiphanis]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Lots of Golden Age superheroes had Nazi villains of different stripes, especially the ones published by Fawcett Comics, original publishers of Captain Marvel (i.e., the Billy Batson-Shazam! Captain Marvel). Fawcett came out with Captian Nazi. DC/National had a few, most notably Wonder Woman femme fatale Baroness von Gunther. But the one that has really remained strong into the modern era is the Red Skull.

 

Golden Age gangsters were often amazingly inventive in their battles with superheroes. The George Reeves Adventures of Superman series from the 1950s had a number of inventive rubber-sciencey ways to even the odds with the Man of Steel, like robbing him of his strength by spraying him with liquid nitrogen (because even steel becomes weak and brittle when frozen solid!)

 

But there was more to the Golden Age than just mobsters and Axis supervillains. Basically, anything that took young boys' fancy from that period would eventually be reflected in Golden Age comics. Maybe the most common trope was the mad scientist who would wittingly or not unleash super-powerful monsters on an unsuspecting world; Lex Luthor was originally from this camp, and Doctor Sivana still is. Alien invasions happened, although become more commonplace in the Silver Age after the Soviet-American Space Race kicked in gear. "Lost worlds" were popular back then; invasions came not just from space but from underground, beneath the sea, mysterious islands not found on any map, or pretty much anyplace the typical American didn't know much about (i.e., everywhere but North America and Europe).

[Escafarc]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Even if you include the non-DC/Marvel Comic universes ther are not a lot of costumed or "super' villains on the side of the Axis.

The ones that come to mind that actually appeared during WWII(I'm sure there were others)

Red Skull (Captain America)

Captain Nazi (Captain Marvel)

Agent Axis (Boy Commandos)

Baroness Paula von Gunther(Wonder Woman)

Valkyrie(Airboy)

[SKJAM!]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

To even things up a bit between the powered and "non-powered' heroes, I'd make everyone take roughly the same SPD (except of course, really fast person.) If they're all SPD 3 or 4, and the enemy mooks SPD 2, but lots of mooks, this gives the non-powered guys a chance to take actions and kick enemy butt. I'd also tend to lower-power/single-concept characters so as to make teamwork necessary.

[assault]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

To even things up a bit between the powered and "non-powered' heroes' date=' I'd make everyone take roughly the same SPD (except of course, really fast person.) If they're all SPD 3 or 4, and the enemy mooks SPD 2, but lots of mooks, this gives the non-powered guys a chance to take actions and kick enemy butt. I'd also tend to lower-power/single-concept characters so as to make teamwork necessary.[/quote']

 

I'd definitely have the powered and non-powered heroes on similar SPDs, just like in any other game. Speedsters would be outliers, as usual.

 

Of course, a lot of powered heroes should have similar, or even inferior, characteristics to the non-powered ones anyway. Having a magic ring, a gravity rod, or the ability to cast spells doesn't necessarily give you a physical edge over a boxer in a mask. (Sometimes it will!)

 

The tendency of most characters to be two-fisted brawlers regardless of their other abilities will tend to bunch their characteristics together in other areas too. It would be quite plausible to build characters as variations on a standard template that contains the abilities almost all characters possess. The biggest variation would be teenage and female characters versus adult males! Of course, in the Golden Age, virtually all characters would have Red Blooded Fisticuffs, or something of the sort, so the main difference between these categories would probably be the amount of STR they start with.

 

So building characters would be fairly simple - a matter of adding their specific abilities, and changing the stuff that isn't applicable.

 

Power levels are an interesting question. Most opponents will be mooks, so a PC doesn't need to be super-powerful to deal with them. On the other hand, being super-powerful is actually overkill at a certain point, so there is no particular benefit to be gained from it! Mixing power levels, in other words, isn't necessarily a problem. Both the weaker and more powerful characters can take out their opponents, pretty much as fast as each other, so who cares?

 

It might be worth keeping SPDs fairly low, just to make the mooks theoretically more dangerous, but I'm not sure that is strictly necessary, since, let's face it, mooks are mooks, and shouldn't really be taking out PCs "by accident". In any case, for me that's just the difference between a 4 SPD baseline rather than a 5 SPD one. It's no big deal.

 

This post is fairly long, so I might cover the rest of my ideas in a separate one.

[assault]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

An accurate reconstruction of the real Golden Age would actually kind of bite.

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

It would certainly be challenging to run a team game in the period. Each character (aside from sidekicks) would have to be run in parallel. That wouldn't be completely impossible, as long as the scenarios are relatively simple.

 

It would be easiest in a PBEM, rather than FtF. Failing that, a smaller group would be easier than a bigger one. Either way, it's a radical difference from "don't split the party" type games.

 

Combat wouldn't be a problem if everyone is fighting their local opponents at the same time. It would basically be like a single combat, except that nobody would be able to tactically interact.

 

It's the non-combat stuff that would be tricky. As I suggested, this would probably have to be kept relatively simple, so characters don't get bogged down, making everybody else wait for them.

 

The result, in other words, would probably be a rather railroad-y game, which might limit the duration of a campaign.

 

On the other hand, having rather simple and easy plots would be authentic!

 

A more complex game would probably be restricted to a hero/sidekick team. A common origin team might work as well - the Marvel Family, Bulletman/Bulletgirl/Bulletboy, or perhaps even a backdated "Batman family" - Batman/Robin/Batwoman.

 

Failing that, an early 50s style game could have more in common with a Silver Age game than an early 40s one.

 

Back to character building: I'd run very light on character disadvantages/complications in a team game. A character in a solo game could have a lot more, but a team character probably shouldn't have any that would distract them from their short term goals.

 

A final point: the highly parallel nature of scenario design would tend to ease the problems related to differing power levels. It doesn't matter so much if one player is playing the Spectre and another the Atom if they are operating "independently" of each other.

 

PS: I'd go for about 50-60 points of disads/complications. I'd keep the frequencies low for most of them. This would drop the points you would get for a lot of them.

 

I wouldn't allow NCM.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Invaders are actually a pretty well matched team. Brick, Flying Zapper with sidekick, Martial Artist/Leader with sidekick. Skills cost points and Cap has the skills in that lineup. Plus that shield. But then they aren't an authentic Golden Age team. They're retro-Golden Age. But they make a good model for a Golden Age campaign.

 

 

 

.

the invaders was based on a golden age team timely,marvels predicessor had called the all winners squad

[Escafarc]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

the invaders was based on a golden age team timely' date='marvels predicessor had called the all winners squad[/quote']

Yes and no The All Winners Squad was first published in the fall of '46 and they didn't fight the Axis in fact there were only two golden age stories done.(

All Winners Comics #19 (Fall 1946) and #21 (Winter 1946; there was no issue #20) The Squad didn't have any new stories until the Silver Age.

[Cassandra]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

You can have any Golden Age Team you like regardless of the Continuity.

 

Here is my version of The All Winners Squad

 

Captain America (Steve Rogers, Martial Artist)

Blonde Phantom (Louise Grant, Martial Artist)

Human Torch (Jim Hammond, Energy Projector)

Sub-Mariner (Namor McKenzie, Brick)

Miss America (Madeline Joyce, Brick)

Whizzer (Robert Frank, Speedster)

Union Jack (Brian Falsworth, Martial Artist)

Spitfire (Jacqueline Falsworth, Speedter)

Venus (Victoria Star, Mentalist)

Golden Girl (Betsy Ross, Martial Artist)

Sun Girl (Mary Mitchell, Energy Projector)

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Golden Age Champions by HERO Games

The Algenon Files: The Fires of War by Blackwyrm Games

Pulp HERO by HERO Games

Masterminds and Madmen by HERO Games

Thrilling Places by HERO Games

Thrilling Adventures by HERO Games

 

 

All great resources for a Golden Age Champions campaign.

 

 

QM

[Christopher]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

And of course, Champions 6E has things for it too:

Page 22-26 are only for that era. It contains ideas for campiangs set in WWII (both home front and front lines are possible), Pulp Heroes in the era and HUAC/Red Scare/McCarthy Era.

 

The morals are simple, the powers are simple if they are even superpowers (a lot of supers could be described with "[atribute1], [atribute2] and could box"), no real supervillians (it was more about finding them, than really fighting them) and some archetypes didn't exist (the Power Armor, for example).

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

In an early (Pre-war) WW II campaign I ran, heroes were limited to spd 3-4 except for the lone speedster (he could transform into a cheetah and had SPD 6 IIRC). Superman was SPD 3, STR 50, DEX 18, and could not fly (yet). He could swim rapidly, leap an eighth of a mile in a single bound, and nothing short of a bursting shell could penetrate his skin (High PD informed by the stats for what I considered a "bursting shell" at the time). The villains were often gangs or aliens and/or axis spies. Periodically, I'd have the characters stop individual crimes as a solo hero just so they could remember how much more powerful they were than Smiling Joe Average.

 

While they might have enlisted in the military at some point, I was planning, post-Pearl Harbor, to have the US Govt. recruit the PCs into a National super-team to assist the FBI and other law enforcement in dealing with saboteurs, black-marketeers, enemy agents, and even aiding in quelling racial violence in Detroit (fortunately they were charismatic enough to save the day, and wise to the trope that anything that disrupted the home front war effort was likely the result of agents provocateur in the employ of the axis.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Of course, if you want your PCs to end the war early you can send them to the front. Of course, the Axis will likely be doing much the same thing.

[Christopher]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

This campaign on herocentral (Metahumans Rising) deals with a possible scenario, where superhumans fought in WWII:

http://www.herocentral.net/campaignInformation.htm?newCampaignId=741922

[megaplayboy]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Of course, the Godlike RPG deals with a world where superhumans exist in sufficient numbers to be recruited to fight in WW2. But from what I can gather, it's not so much Golden Age-y as war-is-heck-y.

 

One thing that gets overlooked often is that the Golden Age of Comics started 3-4 years before America's involvement in WW2 and ended about 10 years after the war ended. So there's a lot of material that lies beyond wartime stories. IIRC, Seduction of the Innocent and the congressional hearings had the effect of turning the few remaining superhero books pretty bland and inoffensive and silly for a while.

Pre-war: mobsters and mad scientists

Post-war: commies, aliens and magic-wielding tricksters

throughout: one-trick villains are commonplace

[phoenix240]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Of course, the Godlike RPG deals with a world where superhumans exist in sufficient numbers to be recruited to fight in WW2. But from what I can gather, it's not so much Golden Age-y as war-is-heck-y.

 

 

You're right. Godlike is a very gritty fairly "low powered" supers setting which is more like people with powers than superheroes in the comic book sense. Characters are "one trick ponies" that have an advantages but aren't overwhelmingly more potent than normals. Your character might be able to lift a tank but he won't be bullet proof. Or you might be bullet proof but no more physically capable than a normal man.

 

 

The game is written with the assumption that the presence of superhumans on all sides more or less cancels out so the war proceeds almost identically to the way it happened in the real world. Personally, I didn't care for that premise but it was somewhat mandated by the games "prequel" status as the forerunner to the Wild Talents setting.

[Cassandra]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

Here is a pretty standard disadvantages package for Golden Age Characters

 

150+ Disadvantages

10 DNPC: Love Interest (Useful Unaware Normal) 8-

10 Hunted: Enemies of the Hero (As Powerful) 8-

10 Hunted: Enemies of the Hero's Group (As Powerful) 8-

20 PsyL: Code of the Hero (Very Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective of Innocents or Superpatriot (Very Common/Strong)

15 SocL: Secret Identity (Frequently/Major)

15 Vuln: Ambushes/Trecherous Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Very Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

[Christopher]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

No "Code vs Killing", or is this part of "Code of the Hero"?

[megaplayboy]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

No "Code vs Killing"' date=' or is this part of "Code of the Hero"?[/quote']

 

While body counts were uncommon in Golden Age comics, the Code vs. Killing really didn't become "standard" until the inception of the Comics Code Authority, which happened toward the end of the Golden Age. Heroes didn't really kill, except perhaps as a collateral consequence of an act. I'd say the Code of the Hero probably reflects a "dislikes killing" or "will not kill personally" type of attitude.

[Cassandra]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

I left out a code against killing for two reasons. One, it was wartime and the heroes were likely to kill in battle. Two, many golden age villains ended up dead by accidentally killing themselves in a final attempt at maniacal vengence.

 

Here is an example of a Golden Age Hero

 

The Flash

 

Val Char Cost

20 STR 10

23 DEX 39

20 CON 20

12 BODY 4

13 INT 3

11 EGO 2

15 PRE 5

18 COM 4

8 PD 4

6 ED 2

6 SPD 27

8 REC 0

40 END 0

32 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 120 Points

 

Cost Skills

6 Combat Luck +3 rPD +3 rED

3 Lightning Calculator

3 Lightning Reflexes

4 Speed Reading

Total Skills Cost: 16 Points

 

Cost Powers

15 EC (Superspeed)-15 Points

25 1) Desolid [Effected by Superspeed]

10 1) Flight 10", Variable Advantages (+1/2), Megascale [1 Km] or 1/2 END Only (-1/4), Only in Contact with a Surface (-1/4)

15 2) Force Field +10 rPD +10 rED, No END (+1/2)

10 3) HA +4d6, HTH Attack (-1/2), No END (+1/2)

15 4) Running +10", No END (+1/2)

3 ES: PER +1

5 ES: RPT, OAF: JSA Radio (-1)

8 Healing: Regeneration 1 BODY/Turn

1 LS: Longevity [200 Years]

7 Transform: Instant Change [One Set of Clothes]

Total Powers Cost: 114 Points

 

Total Cost: 250 Points

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Joan Williams (Useful Normal) 8-

15 Hunted: Enemies of the Flash (As Powerful/NCI) 8-

10 Hunted: Enemies of the Justice Society of America (As Powerful) 8-

20 PsyL: Code of the Hero (Very Common/Strong)

20 PsyL: Protective of the Innocent (Very Common/Strong)

15 SocL: Secret Identity [Jay Garrick] (Frequently/Major)

15 Vuln: Ambushes/Trecherous Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Very Common)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250 Points

 

I used the Golden Age Superhero Disadvantages package I created with a slight variation. Joan Williams, the Flash's love interest knew of his duel identity so his personal villains have a NCI over him.

[Orion]

Re: Golden Age Champions

 

I think the code vs killing depends more on the enemy of the moment than anything else. Sure, some will always kill and some will never kill, but many seem to be in that gray area. When fighting Nazis and Japanese, killing was fine. Same goes for sentient aliens and robots. Homefront criminals got off a little easier. Spies and enemy agents may or may not be killed.