Hit Locations

[quozaxx]

I have always run a Champions based campaign for the last 4 years. I have never used or played with Hit Locations.

 

6 months ago, I decided to run a Fantasy Heroic campaign that does use Hit Locations.

 

Now, If a character gets hit in the arm, why would that Stun him? Especially at X2 the effect (for Killing attacks)? Wouldn't he just lose the use of that arm (If Impaired is being used)?

 

In TV and movies, if a person gets shot in the arm, they still keep on going. They don't fall unconscious because they got hit in the arm. They may drop their weapon. They may not be able to use that arm. They may use the other hand to hold the wound. But they rarely fall unconscious.

 

Insight into this would be helpful.

[L. Marcus]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Note that it's the STUN suffered is two times the BODY. The x2 is used instead of the STUN Roll of the Killing Attack. And of course, the ½d6 STUN Multiplier compares unfavorably to the multipliers from the Hit Locations chart ...

[mayapuppies]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Yup, when I use Hit Locations, I don't use the STUN roll for Killing Attacks.

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Hit Locations

 

As I understand it, being Stunned is not just a matter of being hit in the head and seeing stars or doubling over because you've just had all the air punched out of you.

 

It can also be the few seconds you spend clutching an injured limb while going - "Ow! That hurt you b*****d!" Even if an injury is not fatal it can still take people a while to adjust to the fact that they have a sword through their arm. Adrenaline can make people more resistant to this kind of thing but it is not a cure-all.

 

And you can lose consciousness through being wounded in the arm or leg. Bloodloss, pain and shock can knock you out easily enough.

 

Of course if you want to have a more cinematic game in which proper fighters are not wimpy enough to go down from scratches and minor wounds then by all means adjust the Hit Locations table to suit you.

 

I don't use the bleeding rules in my online game until characters are in negative Body, real heroes don't bleed until they're on the floor.

 

On the other hand if a low level minion or normal loses a limb, (as opposed to just losing the use of the limb), I tend to put them out of the fight or at least make them spend a Phase being Stunned even if they haven't taken enough Stun to justify this. Normal people who lose their arms or legs usually stop fighting and start screaming and/or rolling around on the floor.

[Lucius]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Now, If a character gets hit in the arm, why would that Stun him?

 

1. Because he's in shock

2. Because it knocked him off balance

3. Because he lost a lot of blood

4. Because it HURTS

 

Do you really want me to go on?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is stunned at the number of reasons a person hit in the arm could lost an action and be momentarily DCV0

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I have always run a Champions based campaign for the last 4 years. I have never used or played with Hit Locations.

 

6 months ago, I decided to run a Fantasy Heroic campaign that does use Hit Locations.

 

Now, If a character gets hit in the arm, why would that Stun him? Especially at X2 the effect (for Killing attacks)? Wouldn't he just lose the use of that arm (If Impaired is being used)?

 

In TV and movies, if a person gets shot in the arm, they still keep on going. They don't fall unconscious because they got hit in the arm. They may drop their weapon. They may not be able to use that arm. They may use the other hand to hold the wound. But they rarely fall unconscious.

 

Insight into this would be helpful.

 

You mean bad TV and movies? In Young Guns, there were some semi-realistic portrayals of gunshot wounds to the limbs; the victims did not just "shrug it off" and keep shooting back. They fell back, clutching the bullet wound and screaming in pain.

 

When Simon got shot in the leg in the Firefly episode "Objects in Space", it wasn't just a flesh wound -- he was down for the duration.

 

Those are the first two examples that come to mind. I could find you a few hundred more if you like. I realize that for each of them, there are literally thousands of tv shows and movies portraying serious wounds to arms and legs which the victim ignored as if they were mosquito bites. The technical term for this sort of thing is bulls**t.

 

If "just like a bad tv show" is what you're going for, then of course that's the way to run your campaign. But if you're going for any sense of realism, there's no point basing your game on a medium known for getting pretty much everything wrong.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hit Locations

 

'Unrealistic' and 'Bad' are not synonyms.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Hit Locations

 

'Unrealistic' and 'Bad' are not synonyms.

 

While that's true, they aren't antonyms either. But that's what the OP seemed to be implying.

[dmjalund]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I still think it would be a nice idea to modify the STUNx of hit locations to match the 1d3 STUN multiple

[Old Man]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Generally speaking, a limb hit that does enough BODY to inflict significant STUN is probably pretty close to impairing. I sprained my ankle once playing volleyball, and that stunned the hell out of me without being even remotely life threatening. A 4 or 5 BODY wound from a sword would be altogether worse.

[Lucius]

Re: Hit Locations

 

So am I the only one here thinking of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail with the knight who wanted to keep fighting after all limbs were cut off?

 

"Come back and fight! It's only a flesh wound!"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Monty Python and the Palindromedary

[Shadowsoul]

Re: Hit Locations

 

So am I the only one here thinking of that scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail with the knight who wanted to keep fighting after all limbs were cut off?

 

"Come back and fight! It's only a flesh wound!"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Monty Python and the Palindromedary

 

He must have had some kind of Regeneration ability which kicked in when he hit negative Body, effectively cancelling out the effects of bleeding. Or maybe he got that Automotan power Does Not Bleed, (actally he does, but not enough to have any effect on him). And he must have had an immensely high Con to stay conscious after losing all his limbs.

 

Maybe he was an Automotan. Just a very angry one.

 

Also

 

"Come back here and get what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!"

[L. Marcus]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Takes No STUN or ridiculously high CON and STUN AND Extra BODY, Only Not To Die.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hit Locations

 

What kind of damage and defenses are we dealing with? A Longsword that does say 1 1/2d6 KA against an opponent with, say, 4 rDEF from armor and a 4 PD gets hit in the arm for an average hit of 5 or 6 BOD, 1 or 2 of which gets through his armor. He takes 5 or 6 x 2 = 10 or 12 stun, of which 2 or 4 gets past his defenses. No danger of being Stunned, much less KO'd.

 

A max hit of 9 delivers 5 BOD and 14 STUN - his arm might be impaired (though that's not hugely likely), but I doubt he's Stunned and certainly not KO'd.

 

I don't recall whether the actual BOD is halved after defenses, so I haven't considered that above.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I don't recall whether the actual BOD is halved after defenses, so I haven't considered that above.

 

I believe it is (at least in 5e).

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Thanks, CC - IIRC, the location table did not change from 5e to 6e, so the actual BOD would be halved.

 

So armor will keep you alive, but not necessarily conscious. That doesn't seem unreasonable.

[Markdoc]

Re: Hit Locations

 

It's actually pretty hard to KO - or even stun - someone with hits to the arms/lower legs. Your STUN multiple is only 2x, which means you need to do more than 5 BOD to stun a relatively robust, unarmoured normal. Give him a chain shirt and you need to do more than 8 BOD. These are not light blows!

So the idea that these represent pain and shock is pretty reasonable to me.

 

cheers, Mark

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I have found over the years, that the HIT LOCATION chart is actually very well-balanced. As Markdoc mentioned, it is difficult to stun someone hitting the arms and legs (and hands/feet). Hitting the Torso is pretty common (which statistically should be the case) and while hitting the head is somewhat rare and difficult, it should be devastating.

[quozaxx]

Re: Hit Locations

 

OK, I made a HUGE mistake. An embarrassing mistake. Hit Locations is new to me, and those things happen.

 

I hate it when I do that. Needless to say you have wonderfully brought something to my attention that I didn't read correctly.

 

Oh, well, if I had a dime for every mistake I've ever made, I'd be rich now. Thank you for your time.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I have found over the years' date=' that the HIT LOCATION chart is actually very well-balanced. As Markdoc mentioned, it is difficult to stun someone hitting the arms and legs (and hands/feet). Hitting the Torso is pretty common (which statistically should be the case) and while hitting the head is somewhat rare and difficult, it should be devastating.[/quote']

 

Agreed. A blow to the head will give pause to even the tankiest of tank characters. One thing you need to watch out for is people taking lots of skill levels vs Targetting; 8 PSLs for that are pretty cheap and can result in some grotesque damage.

[dmjalund]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Oh' date=' well, if I had a dime for every mistake I've ever made, I'd be rich now. Thank you for your time.[/quote']I would LOVE a job that fit this description!

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Hit Locations

 

I don't use the bleeding rules in my online game until characters are in negative Body, real heroes don't bleed until they're on the floor.

 

This made my think meat happy

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Hit Locations

 

You mean bad TV and movies? In Young Guns' date=' there were some semi-realistic portrayals of gunshot wounds to the limbs; the victims did [i']not[/i] just "shrug it off" and keep shooting back. They fell back, clutching the bullet wound and screaming in pain.

 

When Simon got shot in the leg in the Firefly episode "Objects in Space", it wasn't just a flesh wound -- he was down for the duration.

 

Those are the first two examples that come to mind. I could find you a few hundred more if you like. I realize that for each of them, there are literally thousands of tv shows and movies portraying serious wounds to arms and legs which the victim ignored as if they were mosquito bites. The technical term for this sort of thing is bulls**t.

 

If "just like a bad tv show" is what you're going for, then of course that's the way to run your campaign. But if you're going for any sense of realism, there's no point basing your game on a medium known for getting pretty much everything wrong.

 

People in real life do in fact sometimes get shot and not realize it until after the shooting is over.

 

Stopping power discussions turn into flamewars on gearhead gun discussion sites.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Agreed. A blow to the head will give pause to even the tankiest of tank characters. One thing you need to watch out for is people taking lots of skill levels vs Targetting; 8 PSLs for that are pretty cheap and can result in some grotesque damage.

 

Indeed. I would probably never allow anyone to purchase more than 5PSL's that apply to any single attack. And even going that far, their character concept needs to call for it. (Master swordsman, expert archer, deadly sniper or Gun fighter etc)

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Hit Locations

 

Indeed. I would probably never allow anyone to purchase more than 5PSL's that apply to any single attack. And even going that far' date=' their character concept needs to call for it. (Master swordsman, expert archer, deadly sniper or Gun fighter etc)[/quote']

 

Since 6e put automaton abilities in the regular powers section another option would be to allow "tank characters" to purchase the following:

 

10 No Hit Locations