Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

There is a pretty detailed fan-created PDF conversion of Skyrealms of Jorune to HERO System Fourth Edition freely downloadable on the Internet. There should be enough commonalities with 6E to make it a very good basis from which to develop a 6E conversion.

 

http://www.jorune.org/files/Jor_HERO.pdf

[Lucius]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

There is a pretty detailed fan-created PDF conversion of Skyrealms of Jorune to HERO System Fourth Edition freely downloadable on the Internet. There should be enough commonalities with 6E to make it a very good basis from which to develop a 6E conversion.

 

http://www.jorune.org/files/Jor_HERO.pdf

 

If that's the one by Parker Whittle, that's the one I'm building on.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Insert irrelevant palindromedary tagline here

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I honestly don't think that you need to adjust the rues at all to have a games with a satisfying level of lethality (well, satisfying to the GM, anyway )

 

Jorune seems to be one of those low-metal worlds, so combat is likely to involve plenty of swashbuckling, not the clash of heavily-armoured knights.

It has martial arts.

It has races with STR above human norms.

 

I can see plenty of cases where characters - even low to mid level characters - will be capable of throwing 3d6+ HKAs, which will - on average - drop a healthy man without armour from "Totally Uninjured" to "Down and Bleeding to Death" in one hit. One. Just one. I honestly don't think you need to add lethality.

 

I've run several prolonged campaigns where low armour/low magic was the norm. As a GM, my hardest task was always giving the players a decent challenge without killing all or most of them.

 

Here's how I did it.

1. I hate caps. It limits player choice, and simply ensures everyone will have the cap. So, no hard caps. I do use NCM as a campaign setting (so, no complication points for NCM). That slows the rate of progression to really high levels but but does not prevent it - after years of play, almost everyone of my PCs has one or more attribute over NCM ... but so what? They are (by now) legendary heroes. Do you think that Conan maxed out at at NCM? There's a reason it's called "Normal Characteristic Maximum".

2. I didn't give away kickass magical defences, or allow defences to stack. I do allow Combat luck, but it does not stack with armour - and it's not always reliable. It really helps PCs survive rather than making them tanks.

3. I was hardass about wearing armour. People cannot go round wearing armour like clothes. It's hot, it stinks after a few days, it chafes, it rubs your skin off and it was socially unacceptable almost everywhere that you weren't expecting imminent combat.

4. Hit locations. They make damage less predictable and thus combat less predictable - which means slightly scarier for PCs

5. I didn't bother with bleeding or incapacitation rules until PCs were under 0 BOD - too much book-keeping.

6. Minions. Lots and lots of minions. Typically they are weaker, without martial arts and with lighter weapons, which means that PCs can typically survive 3-4 hits (not laugh them off, just survive) and their chances of hitting are smaller (unless they let themselves get surrounded and swarmed....). It gives the PCs something they can hack their way through and feel like they have been in a fight, without a good chance of instant fatalities. It also means that named NPCs command more respect.

 

In a setting like this, emphasis in combat is on skill - or more accurately CSL - and tactics. People have commented on the importance of going first, and it is important, but it's not "all-important". If you have plenty of appropriate CSLs, letting the other go first and using your CSLs on Block gives you not only an excellent chance of survival, but allows you to attack first next time - before the other can respond. If you put them on DCV, the first attacker's chance of hitting is lessened - and then you go, at which point you can switch them to OCV for a devastating attack. Tactics become important, because it remains true that 1 or 2 hits would typically take a target out of the fight.

 

cheers, Mark

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

If you have plenty of appropriate CSLs' date=' letting the other go first and using your CSLs on Block gives you not only an excellent chance of survival, but allows you to attack first next time - before the other can respond. If you put them on DCV, the first attacker's chance of hitting is lessened - and [b']then[/b] you go, at which point you can switch them to OCV for a devastating attack.

Do you mean assinging CSL to DCV without aborting? I ask because it sounds so and it is impossible with the standart rules (It's a 0-Phase Action, so you can only set it during your phases/while aborting).

[mayapuppies]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I honestly don't think that you need to adjust the rues at all to have a games with a satisfying level of lethality (well, satisfying to the GM, anyway )

 

Jorune seems to be one of those low-metal worlds, so combat is likely to involve plenty of swashbuckling, not the clash of heavily-armoured knights.

It has martial arts.

It has races with STR above human norms.

 

I can see plenty of cases where characters - even low to mid level characters - will be capable of throwing 3d6+ HKAs, which will - on average - drop a healthy man without armour from "Totally Uninjured" to "Down and Bleeding to Death" in one hit. One. Just one. I honestly don't think you need to add lethality.

 

I've run several prolonged campaigns where low armour/low magic was the norm. As a GM, my hardest task was always giving the players a decent challenge without killing all or most of them.

 

Here's how I did it.

1. I hate caps. It limits player choice, and simply ensures everyone will have the cap. So, no hard caps. I do use NCM as a campaign setting (so, no complication points for NCM). That slows the rate of progression to really high levels but but does not prevent it - after years of play, almost everyone of my PCs has one or more attribute over NCM ... but so what? They are (by now) legendary heroes. Do you think that Conan maxed out at at NCM? There's a reason it's called "Normal Characteristic Maximum".

2. I didn't give away kickass magical defences, or allow defences to stack. I do allow Combat luck, but it does not stack with armour - and it's not always reliable. It really helps PCs survive rather than making them tanks.

3. I was hardass about wearing armour. People cannot go round wearing armour like clothes. It's hot, it stinks after a few days, it chafes, it rubs your skin off and it was socially unacceptable almost everywhere that you weren't expecting imminent combat.

4. Hit locations. They make damage less predictable and thus combat less predictable - which means slightly scarier for PCs

5. I didn't bother with bleeding or incapacitation rules until PCs were under 0 BOD - too much book-keeping.

6. Minions. Lots and lots of minions. Typically they are weaker, without martial arts and with lighter weapons, which means that PCs can typically survive 3-4 hits (not laugh them off, just survive) and their chances of hitting are smaller (unless they let themselves get surrounded and swarmed....). It gives the PCs something they can hack their way through and feel like they have been in a fight, without a good chance of instant fatalities. It also means that named NPCs command more respect.

 

In a setting like this, emphasis in combat is on skill - or more accurately CSL - and tactics. People have commented on the importance of going first, and it is important, but it's not "all-important". If you have plenty of appropriate CSLs, letting the other go first and using your CSLs on Block gives you not only an excellent chance of survival, but allows you to attack first next time - before the other can respond. If you put them on DCV, the first attacker's chance of hitting is lessened - and then you go, at which point you can switch them to OCV for a devastating attack. Tactics become important, because it remains true that 1 or 2 hits would typically take a target out of the fight.

 

cheers, Mark

This. This is how I run campaigns in my Kamarathin setting.

[Thane]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I've been recently into converting my own campaign into HERO and in terms of lethality, and with all the limited experience I have with HERO, I can offer some recent playtesting advice:

- Allowing Hit Locations can make almost every campaign deadly - even a superheroic one (mine is, as of right now, after a long (like "lasting years" long), quite superheroic, when it started from gritty fantasy and is right now a "contemporary" tech space fantasy - our playtests suggest that this alone is often more than enough,

- Imparing rules are very nice,

- Limiting healing makes every campaign in every system deadly, because you rarely ever find characters in completely full health,

 

But it's easy to make an overkill here if you're new to this (we've been playing GURPS for years, and GURPS is extremely deadly, so we at least knew what to watch out for) - just as suggested above, making fights one-hit-wonders will lead to completely unrealistic and undesired results which are not gritty at all (like "we killed them all before they could react - else, we would be dead" (so we build our characters to adapt to this strategy) or "no fights, only ambushes" or "no fights at all" politics). In general, it's hard to find aurea mediocritas for gritty and deadly feel, but in HERO it's easier than in any other generic system I've played (as most are forcing their level of lethality on you - like GURPS does - if you're not unliving, homogenous or you don't have ridiculous ammounts of HP / DR / Injury Tolerance - headshot means you're dead or Warhammer - headshot? you're dead no matter what or AD&D - you can survive anything, even atmospheric entry from low orbit).

Limiting healing and eliminating high defences (high = defences which can completely negate average attacks on average rolls) for both STUN and BODY will probably be more than enough for players to fear combat. In our groups HERO playtests we begun with "normals" to get the hang of combat. In my opinion (shared by my players) - "normal" combat is quite deadly. The only major change between HERO and GURPS (I'm reffering to it since it seems you know the system) is the lack of "pain" penalties. You could introduce them (simply by stating that half or 1/4 of stun or body (up to 4) damage you get counts as a penalty for any rolls next action (except for defensive ones) - this would make HERO just as deadly as GURPS is (we've tried just to see if it works but it was too deadly for our tastes and forced combatants to retreat / hide very often, which doesn't suit our tastes, but may suit yours).

 

But as I've said - it's easy to overkill and make any fight a killing fest, at least from my limited experience. So I would advise playtesting any change you make, if only in one simple combat - HERO is quite deadly on low point values when superheroic or heroic powers are not allowed (such as "I have resistant protection [that against Killing damage] because of my powers of whatever") and all the defence characters can get is from this awful, heavy, socially unacceptable, prone to destruction armor which you cannot wear for too long if you're not a seasoned veteran.

 

On the other hand - you might feel that the STUN mechanics is quite enough - getting stunned repeatedly, kissing the dirt a few times and being knocked down to bleed to death (or be finished by someone who is not too rational and the adrenaline forces him to hack you repeatedly just to make sure) with crippled limbs may be quite enough. Thus, not allowing Combat Luck or too high level of combat luck is a very good advice. Even simple martial arts can boost the level of STUN damage to insane ammounts - and BODY damage will follow.

Outside of mechanics, in any system I've played, remembering that wounds heal and may get infected with various diseases or lead to permanent injuries will probably get more than a gritty feel - I've tried it many times in Warhammer and I didn't even have to resort to mechanics to get the "gritty feel" job done. Feeling consequences of battles after the fight and forcing players to focus on those consequences with the fear of dying in bed from gangrene or else may set the mood right.

 

EDIT: And also, though it may seem weird (it did seem weird to me when I first read HERO rulebooks), seriously think about "points for equipment" rule, despite the campaign not being superheroic. Think about the rationale behind it and you may find it good - it also helps a lot in terms of forcing people not to carry tons of armor or weapons "just in case" and helps to balance everything, even if the point total will be a bit higher. It also helps to get rid of "well, it's as good as it can get, end of progress" or "I must have the best sword money can buy soon or I'm dead" and "I'll take everything I can just in case" thinking and it pushes the game far away from being a contest of itemization and an armsrace. The "points for equipment" rule sounds ridiculous at first, but I can't even imagine running a campaign without Resource Points or points for equipment after I've given it some serious thinking.

[dmjalund]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

And also' date=' though it may seem weird (it did seem weird to me when I first read HERO rulebooks), seriously think about "points for equipment" rule, despite the campaign not being superheroic. Think about the rationale behind it and you may find it good - it also [i']helps a lot [/i]in terms of forcing people not to carry tons of armor or weapons "just in case" and helps to balance everything, even if the point total will be a bit higher. It also helps to get rid of "well, it's as good as it can get, end of progress" or "I must have the best sword money can buy soon or I'm dead" and "I'll take everything I can just in case" thinking and it pushes the game far away from being a contest of itemization and an armsrace. The "points for equipment" rule sounds ridiculous at first, but I can't even imagine running a campaign without Resource Points or points for equipment after I've given it some serious thinking.

or you could strictly enforce encumbrance

[Fred Lang]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Thanks all, for the great responses. My concerns that HERO 6E might be too "super hero-ish" have been assuaged. My fear was that my exotic, blade-wielding, low-armor setting would be populated by undefeatable characters that could just shrug off the dangers of Jorune--of which there are many.

 

I'm starting from absolute zero with the HERO system, so I'd love to return to the forum often with questions and requests for assistance so that my conversion can be precisely what I want it to be.

 

Thank you!

[Thane]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

or you could strictly enforce encumbrance

I was thinking more in the lines of "a cart full of crossbows and various stuff for various situations" or "I have 7 sets of armor on my horse here - these 4 are light, those 2 are the medium ones and this one here is heavy". Should've stressed that - my bad ;-) Points for equipment also help with balancing "power-users" (be it wizards, jedi knights, chi monks or anything else) against mundane equipment users with best equipment availible. I've found this to be the case in my campaigns, where one of the players always plays some power-user (if any is availible), while the other mostly uses equipment and spends his points on things he can't get without equipment. Only now, in HERO, they are equally powerful. But the point about encumbrance is 100% correct.

 

As for Strongbow:

Thing with HERO and "super" is what "powers" you give people access to. In GURPS, this is done by point costs (supernatural powers are by definition very expensive and get even more expensive when compared to tech), in HERO, you have to figure this out yourself. You might find some good info here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/85933-Few-questions-about-point-costs?p=2192184#post2192184 - I've been asking questions about "power level" and point-costs in campaigns. You might find some of that useful if you are fresh to HERO.

[Lucius]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Thanks all, for the great responses. My concerns that HERO 6E might be too "super hero-ish" have been assuaged. My fear was that my exotic, blade-wielding, low-armor setting would be populated by undefeatable characters that could just shrug off the dangers of Jorune--of which there are many.

 

I'm starting from absolute zero with the HERO system, so I'd love to return to the forum often with questions and requests for assistance so that my conversion can be precisely what I want it to be.

 

Thank you!

 

I on the other hand have known Hero intimately for years, but am just now getting acquainted with Jorune. That's why I'm hoping you and I can collaborate.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary knows less about Jorune than I do.

[dmjalund]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I was thinking more in the lines of "a cart full of crossbows and various stuff for various situations" or "I have 7 sets of armor on my horse here - these 4 are light, those 2 are the medium ones and this one here is heavy". Should've stressed that - my bad ;-) Points for equipment also help with balancing "power-users" (be it wizards, jedi knights, chi monks or anything else) against mundane equipment users with best equipment availible. I've found this to be the case in my campaigns, where one of the players always plays some power-user (if any is availible), while the other mostly uses equipment and spends his points on things he can't get without equipment. Only now, in HERO, they are equally powerful. But the point about encumbrance is 100% correct.

 

As for Strongbow:

Thing with HERO and "super" is what "powers" you give people access to. In GURPS, this is done by point costs (supernatural powers are by definition very expensive and get even more expensive when compared to tech), in HERO, you have to figure this out yourself. You might find some good info here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/85933-Few-questions-about-point-costs?p=2192184#post2192184 - I've been asking questions about "power level" and point-costs in campaigns. You might find some of that useful if you are fresh to HERO.

remember that being realistic, it takes at least 1 turn to put on armor, and uness the cart was designed to hold crossbows, one or more phases to grab the appropriate crossbow.

[Thane]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I wasn't really thinking in terms of combat, but in terms of mood - if a GM wants a very gritty&dangerous setting feel, it might be ruined by "counter-strategy" issues like the ones with amassing a huge pile of equipment for every situation, so with at least some time to prepare, you would have an edge. Such strategy, though perfectly valid, in my experience ruins the mood, as players focus more on gaining any possible advantage to minimize the risk of death than on "feeling" the setting. Points for equipment are one of the simplest ways to solve such issues without enforcing many rules. But being rigorous with the equipment, encumbrance, wearing, equipping, putting on, wielding etc. also solves the issue in most cases. But this is important only if players react in such a way - if they don't, then nothing is really needed, unless the "powered-character" vs. "equipment mundane character" becomes an issue of game balance and I don't know if there are powered people in Journe and how common they are or how many will appear in a party.

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

The only major change between HERO and GURPS (I'm reffering to it since it seems you know the system) is the lack of "pain" penalties. You could introduce them (simply by stating that half or 1/4 of stun or body (up to 4) damage you get counts as a penalty for any rolls next action (except for defensive ones) - this would make HERO just as deadly as GURPS is (we've tried just to see if it works but it was too deadly for our tastes and forced combatants to retreat / hide very often' date=' which doesn't suit our tastes, but may suit yours).[/quote']

Especially on Heroic level even a -1 is a severe penalty, around -10% to -15% chance of success (a -3 for d20 Systems). For Skills every point beyond 13 has more effect as "penalty buffer" than a big effect on success.

See the Bell Curve on 6E2 280

 

My concerns that HERO 6E might be too "super hero-ish" have been assuaged. My fear was that my exotic' date=' blade-wielding, low-armor setting would be populated by undefeatable characters that could just shrug off the dangers of Jorune--of which there are many.[/quote']

The lower relative defenses (PD/DC Ratio) and the lower percentage of Resistant defenses (anything under Very Powerfull Heroic can have only 50% of the overall Defenses Resistant) help a lot here.

[Thane]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Especially on Heroic level even a -1 is a severe penalty, around -10% to -15% chance of success (a -3 for d20 Systems). For Skills every point beyond 13 has more effect as "penalty buffer" than a big effect on success.

See the Bell Curve on 6E2 280

This is why GURPS is considered so deadly. With average "normal" skill levels between 9 and 13 (GURPS, like HERO, uses 3d6 rolls), the penalty to any non-defensive action suffered for being hit is *huge* - but some people like that (I'm hit, I must run to cover / duck / run away / undertake defensive actions (block etc.)) and go for that feel. Aside from the fact that hits in vitals / head usually result in death - which is also true for HERO if defenses are low. Going in this direction can lead to a uber-deadly environment, especially with defenses being low. Thus, it's not hard to make an "overkill" in terms of lethality.

Even -2 to all non-defensive rolls for "you were hit between your last phase and this one and you suffer shock and it hurts like hell" would make a setting deadly without inducing major character concept changes to take advantage of increased lethality. At least imho.

But with all the advice given above, Strongbow will certainly have a lot of options to pick from before resorting to house rules.

[dsatow]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

If you want to make pain and threat of death more of a problem, I would suggest you use the following rules at the HEROic level:

 

Hit locations - has greater stun potential than simply rolling 1d3. (6E2 pg 109)

Critical Hits - does maximum damage by rolling more than half what is needed to hit the target rounded down.(6E2 pg 118)

Impairment - can cause temporary penalties based on the number of BODY done before or after the BODY multiple (greater than or equal to 1/2 the players full BODY). (6E2 pg 111)

Disabling - can cause permanent penalties based on the number of BODY done before or after the BODY multiple (greater than or equal to the players full BODY). (6E2 pg 111)

Wounding - causes players to flinch whenever they take BODY and require a CON roll or only do defensive actions. (6E2 pg

Bleeding - Current bleeding rules in 6th ed is much more tolerant. Still the Bleeding rules causes a 1d6 NND for every 5 points of Killing Body taken (1/2 effect from normal body taken). This is in addition to BODY done for being at Negative BODY as it comes on segment 1. (6E2 pg 113)

 

Example: Randall is fight Sabre. Sabre has been taking it easy on Randall just punching him, but Randall just called Sabre's mother something nasty. Randall starts with 10 Body and has taken 3 Body in damage. Because of bleeding rules, Randall took 1d6 of Stun on seg 1 after his 5 Rec on post 12. Luckily he rolled a 1 and has stopped bleeding. Unluckily, Sabre is very angry about the comment about his mother and the football team and has drew his name sake. After a couple of phase dodging the sabre, Randall get hit at the bottom of segment 12. Randall only has his 1 level of Combat Luck to protect him and Sabre just did 8 points of killing damage to Randall's right arm.

 

OK, so what happens to Randall besides taking 2 BODY and 5 Stun? Randall immediately has to make a Con Roll at -2, -1 for the Body he has just taken and -1 for the 3 Body he has already taken from being punched. If he fails, he can't do anything offensive his next phase. Because he took 5 Body to the arm before the location modifier, the arm is now impaired and takes a -3 on all rolls with that arm. On post 12, Randall recovers all 5 Stun but is still down 2 Body. On segment 1, Randall roll 1d6 for bleeding, this time rolling a 6 (damn law of averages!). This means that Randall takes 6 more Stun and 1 more Body.

 

Lets just be glad he wasn't Stunned (6E2 pg 105). If he was, if he took even one stun between starting to recover from being Stunned and his next phase, he wouldn't recover from being Stunned. Lets hope Randall has some backup.

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Lets just be glad he wasn't Stunned (6E2 pg 105). If he was' date=' if he took even one stun between starting to recover from being Stunned and his next phase, he wouldn't recover from being Stunned. Lets hope Randall has some backup.[/quote']

Under wich part of the rule listed above is that covered?

Could it be that you mistake "Taking a Recovery" (using your phase to recover, instead of just the free post segment 12 recovery) with "Recovering form being Stunned"?

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

remember that being realistic' date=' it takes at least 1 turn to put on armor, and uness the cart was designed to hold crossbows, one or more phases to grab the appropriate crossbow.[/quote']

 

1 Turn? That's 12 seconds. I defy you to even get into padded armour and a chain byrnie in 12 seconds. Most people take more than a minute to just get into regular clothes. Basically, putting on armour is an out-of-combat procedure.

 

cheers, Mark

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Do you mean assinging CSL to DCV without aborting? I ask because it sounds so and it is impossible with the standart rules (It's a 0-Phase Action' date=' so you can only set it during your phases/while aborting).[/quote']

 

Sure. When combat starts, unless surprised or the opponent is right on top of them, players will get a chance to assign their CSLs. They can then re-assign them when it comes to their phase, so a slower character can viably have his levels on DCV, hope to weather his opponent's attack and then switch to all out offence to try and land a blow. His opponent will already have reacted and thus cannot re-assign levels. I've had PCs actually wait even when they could have gone first to pull this stunt. As a result, in low armour settings, PCs quite often fight defensively for a phase or two to size up their enemy.

 

cheers, Mark

[dmjalund]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

1 Turn? That's 12 seconds. I defy you to even get into padded armour and a chain byrnie in 12 seconds. Most people take more than a minute to just get into regular clothes. Basically, putting on armour is an out-of-combat procedure.

 

cheers, Mark

I did say "at least." and it depends on the type and design of armour

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Sure. When combat starts' date=' unless surprised or the opponent is right on top of them, players will get a chance to assign their CSLs.[/quote']

I am not so certain about it. I think it is right to asume that they can't assign them before their first phase (even if both sides are unsuprised, the faster one get's the advantage of either hitting him without them assigned or forces him to abort).

But I better ask Steve L. about it.

 

They can then re-assign them when it comes to their phase' date=' so a slower character can viably have his levels on DCV, hope to weather his opponent's attack and then switch to all out offence to try and land a blow. His opponent will already have reacted and thus cannot re-assign levels.[/quote']

The opponent may have been acted (maybe even that segment), but he can still abort his next phase - and while aborting you can change your CLS, so the enemy would just abort and change his CSL to DCV anyway. So this won't archieve anything.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I am not so certain about it. I think it is right to asume that they can't assign them before their first phase (even if both sides are unsurprised' date=' the faster one get's the advantage of either hitting him without them assigned or forces him to abort).[/quote']

 

Skill levels have to be assigned, so the character would need an action to assign (or reassign) them. They don't sit in a default position out of combat.

 

The opponent may have been acted (maybe even that segment)' date=' but he can still abort his next phase - and while aborting you can change your CLS, so the enemy would just abort and change his CSL to DCV anyway. So this won't archieve anything.[/quote']

 

You cannot act twice in the same segment. If the character attacks at DEX 30 on segment 12, he cannot Abort when someone targets him at DEX 20, Segment 12. He can abort in Segment 1.

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

You cannot act twice in the same segment. If the character attacks at DEX 30 on segment 12' date=' he cannot Abort when someone targets him at DEX 20, Segment 12. He can abort in Segment 1.[/quote']

Re-read and found it. Thanks.

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Skill levels have to be assigned' date=' so the character would need an action to assign (or reassign) them. They don't sit in a default position out of combat.[/quote']

 

Agreed: that's why I wrote "Unless surprised or the enemy is right on top of you". If you are surprised, even having a higher DEX/SPD isn't going to help, so the only situation where you are going to have a problem with assigning CSLs is where you move directly to attacks flying without any real prior warning. That can certainly happen, but in our games at least it's not the general rule.

 

cannot act twice in the same segment. If the character attacks at DEX 30 on segment 12' date=' he cannot Abort when someone targets him at DEX 20, Segment 12. He can abort in Segment 1.[/quote']

 

Yup. You nailed that.

 

cheers, Mark

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Agreed: that's why I wrote "Unless surprised or the enemy is right on top of you". If you are surprised' date=' even having a higher DEX/SPD isn't going to help, so the only situation where you are going to have a problem with assigning CSLs is where you move directly to attacks flying without any real prior warning. That can certainly happen, but in our games at least it's not the general rule.[/quote']

Then I wonder what you are telling us above:

From the sounds of it, the characters first asigned their CSL's to DCV, then got attacked, then counterattacked and switched levels to OCV. Since you can only set CSL#s once per phasae, the only ways this would be possible are:

- The CSL where on DCV from a previous phase (wich is not a special tactic, just logical use of superior SPD and carries the penalty having one attack with all CSL to DCV).

- The are allowed to set their CSL more than once per phase, especially before holding their action and then again while executing it.

- They were allowed to lock them in before the combat started/they had their first combat action.

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Then I wonder what you are telling us above:

From the sounds of it, the characters first asigned their CSL's to DCV, then got attacked, then counterattacked and switched levels to OCV.

 

Ummm .... no.

As noted already, that's not possible and I have already stated several times that you need to have time to set your levels.

 

It's more along the lines of:

Characters enter combat. CSLs are set to wherever players want them.

In a subsequent phase, the first attacker gets close enough to actually try to land a blow - after which, the defender can take his action - which can involve moving levels around.

 

I dunno about you, but in my games, unless somebody is surprised, combat rarely starts with "The guy attacks you and you just have to stand there and take it totally unprepared". PCs (and NPCs for that matter) usually get an inkling that combat is in the offing before attacks start to fly.

 

In last night's game, to take a real-life example, the players entered a room in a disused temple that smell rank: before going in, they drew their weapons, readied shields and adopted a formation protecting the spellcaster and the archer. They would have argued strongly - and rightly too, IMO - if I had refused to let them set their CSLs before moving into what turned out to be a violent situation.

 

Combat starts when PCs enter a combat situation, not necessarily with the first attack.

 

cheers, Mark