Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

That's the approach I would use for the Universal Weapons Master' date=' but I'd use PSL's rather than CSL's. Of course, if someone has ruled you can't use CSL's without the WF, then this ability is completely worthless, isn't it?[/quote']

Actually you specifically can't use PSL to coutneract the Missing WF Penalty. The reason seems to me, that they are in effect, Priced as Limited CSL.

 

Right, I think we all understand that. However, if you don't ALSO buy the Weapon Familiarity for that type of weapon, then the one you paid points for is the only one you can use properly. Hawkeye may have a custom bow (I'd be surprised if he didn't, really) but he should be able to use ANY bow he picks up.

 

If I'm making a super that uses a weapon, I always take the WF for two reasons: first, realism: someone who's good with a weapon should have the skill listed. Second, paranoia: what if during some adventure I lose MY weapon, and have to use someone else's? One or two points for a WF is cheap insurance!

Actually, since you bow will be most likely a OAF, you ask the GM to take it away.

 

Yes super pay point to not need the WF. And I personally think using the weapon examples from 6E2 in supers game is a really bad idea*. But perhaps the GM considers this as a "Freeby" for your character?

 

*Everybopdy builds his weapons with points. The Viper goon as well as the superhumans he fights. But then again the GM could rule that you need WF if you ever pick up the gun of a viper goon.

[Greywind]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Why? If nothing else you could always use it as an impromptu throwing weapon.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Though it's fairly unlikely that Super Archer learned with his super special bow.

 

[...]

 

At the most it's a few shots to get used to the change.

 

Unlikely? Yes, but this is a concept character. Firing a normal bow a few times would probably earn him the point he needs to get the WF, and if the joke has gotten old then the GM may force you to buy the WF in the middle of combat.

 

PS you can't use more Str with a bow than it can handle. ie a 10 strength bow can't do more damage than the bow is listed at. If you want more damage you get a bow with a stronger pull. If you somehow want to over pull a bow you stand a chance of breaking either the string or bow itself.

 

Sorry, I didn't intend that to be read as "even if the GM allows you to do more damage", I meant it to be "even when the GM let's you try."

 

*Everybopdy builds his weapons with points. The Viper goon as well as the superhumans he fights. But then again the GM could rule that you need WF if you ever pick up the gun of a viper goon.

 

Technically speaking, points are only spent by PCs. NPCs get whatever the GM gives them, not that the GM can't build them on a set point total, but it's usually not worth it for mooks outside of write-ups in villain books.

 

Also, I've played games where the GM made that ruling. It discouraged running around shooting things with the enemy's weapons unless you had a reason for it, which can be a problem if your group just finished a D&D game.

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Technically speaking, points are only spent by PCs. NPCs get whatever the GM gives them, not that the GM can't build them on a set point total, but it's usually not worth it for mooks outside of write-ups in villain books.

 

Also, I've played games where the GM made that ruling. It discouraged running around shooting things with the enemy's weapons unless you had a reason for it, which can be a problem if your group just finished a D&D game.

 

I'm pretty sure no GM assumes his NPC's without WF: OAF have a -3 penalty because they didn't pay points for the weapon.

 

If the weapon would logically be unfamiliar, sure, apply the penalty. If the character sank 50 points into his bow and arrows, it seems pedantic to impose a penalty if he's lost those and happens to locate a normal bow somewhere. Green Arrow should be able to fire Hawkeye's bow and vice versa.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I'm also sure that NPC's don't suffer penalties for not paying points to be familiar with a weapon, I didn't think I was suggesting that they would.

 

In the game in question we all bought the WF for the weapons we were supposed to be good at, so it never came up, but I would imagine that at worst the GM would have required that he retroactively buy the WF as soon as it was convenient.

 

Super Archer was meant as a joke. I would have put more smilies in that post, but I didn't think that anyone would take it seriously. The only way I could really see it making sense for "paid points for weapon man" to have that penalty is if his weapon based CSLs were all specifically for the weapon he paid points for and the SFX of his weapon suggested that it didn't act at all like the real thing.

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Why? If nothing else you could always use it as an impromptu throwing weapon.

Why not what? Please don't forget to quote what you answer too or we can't say what you mean.

 

Technically speaking' date=' points are only spent by PCs. NPCs get whatever the GM gives them, not that the GM can't build them on a set point total, but it's usually not worth it for mooks outside of write-ups in villain books.[/quote']

Nope. The rules clearly speak of characters. Also, every example mook in the Champions 6E Genre book has his weapons bought as powers with OIF/OAF - including the Viper goon and the Member of the Army.

Some GM's may use the equipment from 6E2, but the proposed way (and the way I think better balanced) is to let everyone build their weapons with points.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

 

PS you can't use more Str with a bow than it can handle. ie a 10 strength bow can't do more damage than the bow is listed at. If you want more damage you get a bow with a stronger pull. If you somehow want to over pull a bow you stand a chance of breaking either the string or bow itself.

 

As a sidetrack/tangent: In a realistic Heroic setting, I've thought about allowing some STR to add DC's to bows (overdrawing the bow) but it'd add a Jammed (bow breaks) to the shot (probably following the 14-/11-/8- model, per DC/+5 Str) with an associated Side Effects (getting smacked by the broken bowstaves).

[Mister E]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

"Make User Friendly": Minor Transform (adds appropriate WF skill directly to objects)... Always On.

 

On the plus side, you can pick up and use anything as a weapon. The only "bad" then is that that object can be used as a weapon by anybody.

 

[edit]: ... Ultimately, this would be a Major Transform, for sure.

 

Perhaps it is only minor if the object is pre-"weaponized".

[Tasha]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

In a Supers game' date=' equipment is paid for bypassing the need for familiarity with said equipment.[/quote']

 

Yes but only that specific piece of equipment. Not for a similar but different piece of equipment. ie Marksman loses his special Sniper rifle. If he picks up a Barrett from the Army sniper he will have a -3 OCV to use it. Now if he had bought WF Sniper Rifles or WF Small Arms, he would have no issues. Also if he has a Powerpool for his different firearms he can use any weapon that can be built for the amount of points in the pool.

[Tasha]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

On bows. They are RKA's that require a STR min. Just by the power definition you cannot use more strength to add to damage.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

On bows. They are RKA's that require a STR min. Just by the power definition you cannot use more strength to add to damage.

You could redefine them as HKA, Ranged, Str Min. If you use either a hard DC cap for the campaign or the double max DC rule, that would prevent it from getting out of hand.

[dmjalund]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous?

 

put a contact poison on the pages.

[Lucius]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous?

 

put a contact poison on the pages.

 

Hollow the book out, and fill with explosives triggered to go off when the book is opened.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Hide a palindromedary in it

[JohnTaber]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I ran a campaign based on the old Alien Legion comic. What I did to make it deadlier was to raise the damage from blasters and such but take away 1 Stun Modifier. The results are guns that really make you bleed a LOT.

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

I ran a campaign based on the old Alien Legion comic. What I did to make it deadlier was to raise the damage from blasters and such but take away 1 Stun Modifier. The results are guns that really make you bleed a LOT.

And the people tend to stay conscious longer while bleeding to death :-)

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

And the people tend to stay conscious longer while bleeding to death :-)

 

That's actually pretty realistic. Most people who are shot do not fall unconscious until they've lost a lot of blood: at which point they're only a relatively short distance from death unless it's quickly staunched.

 

One option I suggested during the 6E debate over killing attacks was to apply the Stun multiplier only to the BOD that goes thorough defences: so you basically ignore non-resistant defences for killing attacks. That would make killing attacks lethal against soft targets, but relatively ineffectual against heavily armoured ones: which is how things like bullets and arrows actually work.

 

cheers, Mark

[Christopher]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

One option I suggested during the 6E debate over killing attacks was to apply the Stun multiplier only to the BOD that goes thorough defences: so you basically ignore non-resistant defences for killing attacks. That would make killing attacks lethal against soft targets' date=' but relatively ineffectual against heavily armoured ones: which is how things like bullets and arrows actually work.[/quote']

Depends on teh type of armor. A buletproof west or spandex does not negates or blocks the attacks, it only distributes the force over a larger area. It might be less likely for a bullet to get through, but it might also hurt more (more STUN).

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Depends on teh type of armor. A buletproof west or spandex does not negates or blocks the attacks' date=' it only distributes the force over a larger area. It might be less likely for a bullet to get through, but it might also hurt more (more STUN).[/quote']

 

Well, spandex wouldn't help very much (it wouldn't stop a toothpick, let alone a bullet), but bulletproof vests actually block bullets just fine: we have multiple accounts from Iraq and Afghanistan of troops taking hits in their body armour and not even noticing they'd been until after the firefight, when they found the evidence.

 

The classic example, however is the North Hollywood shootout, where the robbers used bulletproof vests: they took multiple hits at short range to the torso, from 9 mm and .38 handguns, and 12 gauge shotguns firing solid slugs. Not only were they not hurt, they weren't even mildly incapacitated by the bullets that hit their armour. Matasareanu was hit 29 times - but it was two bullet wounds to his unarmoured thighs that killed him .... an hour later. He bled to death. Phillips was hit 10 times, but only significantly injured by the hits to his unarmoured hands and legs, before he shot himself in the head. SWAT team members also reported that Matasareanu was hit several times in the torso by M-16 rounds which did not penetrate (they were not using AP rounds). In the end, both robbers were killed by wounds that bypassed their armour - hits in the hands, feet, and neck, where they had no armour. The ones that hit their armour - no trauma plates here, just kevlar - caused minor grazes and bruising. The SWAT team suggested that the outcome could have been much different if they had been able to armour their legs and heads.

 

If you look

) you'll see a US soldier take a large caliber rifle bullet to the chest at relatively short range - he falls down (mostly from surprise), rolls over, pops right back up and moves quickly into cover He got a bruise.

Or you can see a guy in a vest taking a bunch of .357 magnum rounds to the chest at point blank range:

. He's prepared, so you don't get the "mental shock" effect, that typically makes people fall down.

 

Now there's no guarantee: people still get wounded and killed by hits that penetrate their armour (especially with military style ball ammo). But basically, in real life, ballistic armour is very effective and gamers and gun geeks consistently over-estimate the impact of bullets. That's speaking as someone who's both seen and felt the effect personally, if you know what I mean.

 

cheers, Mark

[Greywind]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Let's not overlook the soldier that was shot in the face at close range with the only noticeable effect of having one of his incisors ejected.

[Markdoc]

Re: Making Hero 6E More Dangerous (Skyrealms of Jorune Conversion) ?

 

Let's not overlook the soldier that was shot in the face at close range with the only noticeable effect of having one of his incisors ejected.

 

Yeah, that was one of those freak incidents where the bullet "glanced" and took his tooth out as it was ricochetting away. I survived my shot to the head in the same way - the slug hit at a very sharp angle and instead of going through making a hole in my brain, it kind of "skated" along the skull. It used up up all its KE smashing up the bone and ended up wedged between the skull and the brain. If I'd had my head turned just a fraction to the side ... well, good night, sweet prince. Bullets are actually pretty light: they can be diverted by even a twig, sometimes and they definitely bounce off bone readily enough: so shoot enough people, and you'll end up with some freakish results.

 

With body armour though, preventing penetration is the rule, not the exception. It's why I like the North Hollywood shootout as an example - here you have at least 40 shots that hit two guys, from multiple angles. Without exception, the ones that missed the armour penetrated the body and did significant damage - and the ones that hit the armour did not. That's about as close to a controlled experiment as you're likely to get and basically tells you everything you need to know right there.

 

cheers, Mark