How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

[SSgt Baloo]

In a world where mutants are considered a subset of "people with powers", what could possibly set them apart in such a way as to allow persecution of "mutants" but not other "supers"? Is it even possible to come up with such a scenario?

 

The one campaign I ran where "mutants" were an issue was in a (barely) pre-WWII campaign where whatever made people "super" often had unusual distinguishing features like fur, scales, horns, a tail, etc. People with features that seemed like a step down the evolutionary scale were clinically referred to as "subhuman", but were often labeled as animals, beasts, monsters, etc. People with features that seemed a step up on the evolutionary scale were called "supermen", not after the comic character, but after the Nietschean ideal. People with both "up" and "down" characteristics were usually lumped in with the "subhumans" unless their visible "down" characteristics were aesthetically pleasing in some way (angelic wings, for example).

 

I'm not asking about the logic behind anti-mutant sentiments, but about something else. This isn't a thread about why Marvel has two classes of superpowered beings, one of which (mutants) is judged, often negatively as a whole while the other group is seen as individuals, each deserving to be judged upon his merits. This thread is about how to rationalize such a system in the first place (apart from truckloads of denial).

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

What comes to my mind first is the instinctive human fear of that which is "different," combined with the intimate and complex relationship people have with their children. There must be a deep, instinctive fear reaction to the possibility of one's own offspring being dramatically different, which could be transferred to mutants in general. I've also noticed the complex mix of anger and guilt some people experience when their children inherit a genetic illness. Many people don't want to face that there's something "wrong" with themselves, and take their resentment out on their children.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Best guess: Using terminology from the old Marvel games, 'Normals' still consider 'altered humans' to be human. Even monstrous altered humans like The Thing were once human, once 'one of us'. On the other hand, mutants are not only a separate species ('homo superior'), but they come to be through a natural process of evolution, rather than a freak accident that could happen to anybody. The existance of mutants is nature's way of telling normals, 'you are becoming obsolete'. Mutants are here to replace humans, and that scares the crap out of some people.

[Vulcan]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

My opinon is that the answer has become nothing more complex than bad writing. The writers are all basically saying "That's the way it has been, that's the way it will always be."

 

Which is a pity, because the basic concept in the '60s was a brilliant way for Stan Lee to address racism in his comic books without triggering the censors, governmental or parental. The problem is, in the past half century, racism has dwindled dramatically in our society. (Which is not to say that it has been elimintated, or is even minor. It just no longer exists at the same levels permitted in the '60s.) The anti-mutant discrimination in the MU, on the other hand, has ballooned into something much more like paranoia than mere discrimination. It doesn't matter how often the X-teams save the world, or even the whole of reality. They are mutants, therefore evil. WFT?

 

Lazy, the lot of them. Racism, just like any other societal institution, evolves. As recently as 400 years back, the negroid branch of humanity was viewed by Europeans as exotic - even highly attractive. It is only with the birth of the African slave trade that they start to become 'inferior.'

 

Well, no one ever said my ancestors were particularly smart.

[RexMundi]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I'm on the "Not One of Us" bandwagon. The House of M storyline actually was one of the few things in Marvel I thought that did a good job laying out the ground rules for Us vs Them, especially the House of M Avengers stuff. The Marvel Noir books took a much different approach that worked very well too.

 

~Rex

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

If mutants are the only people who naturally have powers, and every other super had to earn them in some way then I could see some rational for persecution of mutants. This would of course imply that any radiation accident supers would face the same persecution that mutants do, unless there were some way to retroactively earn your powers, but even then there would still be some friction because you "lucked out" on your powers.

 

For instance, if all non-mutant/accidental powers come from things like cybernetic implants, super soldier serums, controlled exposure to Gamma rays, powered armor, lantern rings, etc. with strict and possibly risky requirements for acquiring them such as extensive background checks, military service, large monetary payments, permits, buying them from the black market, etc. Then there would generally be a lot of hard feelings towards and fears of people who simply have powers and less sympathy for the ones whose powers with major drawbacks. Even the people who illicitly gained their powers would tend to feel less than charitable towards mutants since even they had to put some sort of effort into gaining their powers.

 

However, I can't think of anything that can explain the Marvel Universe's (pre-Civil War) near complete acceptance of powerful, and occasionally reckless, supers like Johnny Storm, Iron Man, and Thor while simultaneously vilifying less powerful, and usually more restrained, supers like Jubilee, Hank McCoy, and occasionally Spider-Man. Except for the non-explanation that Earth-616 is actually two universes superimposed on each other, and only a few people like the Hulk and Spider-Man exist in both of them simultaneously.

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

 

EDIT: Okay, now that I think about it, the numerous insistent claims by mutants that, against all available evidence, being born with a randomly filled grab bag of powers, physical traits, and an occasional deformity or health problem somehow makes them the next step in human evolution and the eventual replacement of regular people, may very well account for most of the problem.

 

Especially when combined with their other common, and insultingly stupid, claim that all of the very wide variety of mutant powers, not just the ones that could reasonably be explained this way, come from a single gene. Including Wolverine's ability to break the law of conservation of mass and energy with his healing factor and Cyclops having portals to the D&D-esque Plane of Infinite Red Concussive Energy inside of his eyeballs and being able to block this energy with no more than his skin whilst still having just as much inertia and toughness as a normal human of his size and weight.

 

And I actually like the X-Men.

[phoenix240]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Maybe some incident in the setting's history could start the hate and distrust, maybe a tragic incident that kills allot of people or a spree of mutant related (or believed to be related) crimes and terrorism. There might be a movement among mutants that puts fourth they are a separate race and so beyond humanity's laws. The Teragen from White Wolf's Aberrant setting are a good example. Even if all (or even most) mutants that subscribe to that they could all be smeared with the same brush.

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

The only way I could justify it would be if every super who was not a moutant got their abilities from either gadgets, power armor, or intensive training. So that only mutants had innate, truely super-human abilities that could not be taken away from them.

[Tasha]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Perhaps it's the fact that ANYONE could be a secret mutant. Your children that look so normal could suddenly grow wings, shoot deadly energy from their eyes, get furry when they hit puberty. I think that the extra paranoia and perhaps even in some groups that Satan powers mutants.

 

I think that being mutant has become less like racism and more like being GLBT(Gay, Lesiban, Bisexual, Transgender) in America. It has the same things about being in the closet, family members turning against the Mutant. Some sects of religions disliking them because they are what they are. Searches for "the Cure". Self hating members doing crazy things to not be what they are.

[Gent]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I would theorize that it got started in the Marvel Universe because of Magneto. A group whose first advocacy group is called "The League of Evil Mutants" is not going to get much good press. Also, they go around calling themselves "Homo Superior" and claim to be "the next stage in human evolution". That can't have helped.

 

I would say that a good way to explain mutant hysteria is to feature a Magneto-like PR anti-genius.

[Clonus]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

In a world where mutants are considered a subset of "people with powers", what could possibly set them apart in such a way as to allow persecution of "mutants" but not other "supers"? Is it even possible to come up with such a scenario?

 

Certainly it's possible. Just dispense with accidental origins which are silly and archaic anyway. Then you have people in gimmick costumes and suits of powered armour, awesome martial artists, cyborgs, and robots, plus a small number of aliens of one sort or another, plus the mutants who feared because they reproduce in a way all the others can't on earth and thus might replace our species without actually letting us have the cool powers.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Strong Guy: "All right, that's it! Stuff like this happens to the Avengers and Fantastic Four all the time, but they're not 'cosmic-powered freaks' or 'superhuman vermin'! We deserve respect! We demand respect! And we won't get it with the pejorative term 'mutant' in popular use!"

Reporter: "Are you saying you don't want to be called mutants anymore?"

Strong Guy: "That's right. We prefer the term 'Genetically Challenged'. Or 'GeeCee' for short."

[RexMundi]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Look at Mutant Hate this way. Mutants, are that guy on the Internet that doesn't agree with you. Mutants are the Guy that cut you off in Traffic. Mutants are the guy that ran off with your super hot girlfriend because he's edgy and cool.

 

Always easy to rage..... Often over the simplest things aside from petty jealousy that the mutant guy can fly and you are stuck in Chicago Traffic.

 

~Rex

[Enforcer84]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I'm not asking about the logic behind anti-mutant sentiments, but about something else. This isn't a thread about why Marvel has two classes of superpowered beings, one of which (mutants) is judged, often negatively as a whole while the other group is seen as individuals, each deserving to be judged upon his merits. This thread is about how to rationalize such a system in the first place (apart from truckloads of denial).

 

I think you DO require the truckloads of denial to have such a hysteria.

 

If you're going to do it, you need to have a) some event that can be used as a tipping point. 2) There has to be some infighting among the super powerful along the mutant/non mutant lines - heated denials and impassioned embracing.

 

Marvel did have the old, "Mutant Detector" out, if you didn't scan as a mutant, you were fine. Now not everyone has access to such tech but you could have a "wikileaks" type whistle blower event where a number of super humans who had denied being mutants are outed. I believe Tasha's reasoning is pretty spot on for this.

[dmjalund]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Strong Guy: "All right' date=' that's it! Stuff like this happens to the Avengers and Fantastic Four all the time, but they're not 'cosmic-powered freaks' or 'superhuman vermin'! We deserve respect! We [i']demand[/i] respect! And we won't get it with the pejorative term 'mutant' in popular use!"

Reporter: "Are you saying you don't want to be called mutants anymore?"

Strong Guy: "That's right. We prefer the term 'Genetically Challenged'. Or 'GeeCee' for short."

I remember this! - too bad I can't rep this

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Certainly it's possible. Just dispense with accidental origins which are silly and archaic anyway. Then you have people in gimmick costumes and suits of powered armour' date=' awesome martial artists, cyborgs, and robots, plus a small number of aliens of one sort or another, plus the mutants who feared because they reproduce in a way all the others can't on earth and thus might replace our species without actually letting us have the cool powers.[/quote']

 

I dunno about silly and archaic ... even if they are, I find them part of the charm of the setting. You could probably fidget it easily enough, though, that all 'supers' are mutants; there may just be a handful with a kind of 'indeterminate mutation' that kicks in as a lifesaving measure when suddenly exposed to radiation or something of that nature. Say they 'instantly evolve' or somesuch in reaction to a stimulus instead of having a pre-set mutation from birth genetics.

 

It may actually be something I'd consider for a game, though ...

[FrankL]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I've often thought that them choosing the name Homo superior had something to do with why people mistrust them. That doesn't explain everything about the hysteria, though.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Say they 'instantly evolve' or somesuch in reaction to a stimulus instead of having a pre-set mutation from birth genetics.

 

I'm not sure that "instantly evolve" is the right term, but I've made heroes that justified their initial "radiation accidents" like this. It's also how I've always rationalized the radioactive spider bite that turned Puny Peter Parker into the Spectacular Spider-Man.

 

Also, just so I don't fell compelled to rant about this later...

 

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Perhaps it's the fact that ANYONE could be a secret mutant. Your children that look so normal could suddenly grow wings, shoot deadly energy from their eyes, get furry when they hit puberty. I think that the extra paranoia and perhaps even in some groups that Satan powers mutants.

 

I think that being mutant has become less like racism and more like being GLBT(Gay, Lesiban, Bisexual, Transgender) in America. It has the same things about being in the closet, family members turning against the Mutant. Some sects of religions disliking them because they are what they are. Searches for "the Cure". Self hating members doing crazy things to not be what they are.

 

Best explanation thus far. Repped. I still think anti-mutant sentiment would not get to the "pass laws against it" phase unless there were a malign intelligence behind the movement. Left alone it would be a fringe movement. Westboro Baptist Church anyone? If there were mutants, WBC and anyone like them would be against mutants.

 

"They want to eat your children!"

[Bloodstone]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

1) Mutants one the whole have a bad reputation. They have been at the heart of many world ending schemes. Virtually all them have been criminals, at the least, in defiance of one or another US laws. Some of them have been terrorists. Even those groups that worked with the government eventually betrayed the USA. Many mutants are political trouble makers and separatists. Did I mention that I'm basically just talking about the public perception of the X-men here? And Spider-man thinks he's got it bad...

 

2) They can be anyone, anywhere. Including your own kids. This freaks out tons of people, though especially the racists and the religious right. Doesn't help that so many of them look like monsters. Several of them even look like demons. The Hulk might be a giant scary green guy that the army chases around, but it's not like you're daughter's going to marry him one day and have little green babies.

 

3) Prior to M Day, they were actually out breeding mankind. People didn't fear that they might one day be replaced by mutants, they were watching it happen! It was just a matter of time before homo sapiens joined cro-magnon.

 

4) There are multiple technologies that specifically identify what makes them unique. They are traceable and very easy to label. And they constantly rally together because of that label. It's not like Luke Cage and Daredevil have some special bond by virtue off them both having powers, but mutants DO because they have the X-Gene. Mutants aren't just members of random teams. They are an actual society of super beings.

 

5) Even the rest of the superhuman world treats them as "other". Because you can't reliably make more Hulks or Captain Americas. The freak accident that gave the Fantastic Four and Spider-man their powers can't be replicated. Dr Strange can't train an army of apprentices and Tony Stark doesn't have the money/trust to form an army of Iron Men. But prior to M-Day the mutants numbers swell with every passing year. And after M-Day, almost all the mutants have rallied together, united in the hope of survival. The fact the X-men have their own island, are recognized as the most powerful superhuman force on earth, are willing to to harbor known criminals and terrorists just because of their race... well, it doesn't exactly make them the most trustworthy new nation...

 

6) Even when there were only 198 of them left, some of those mutants were amongst the most powerful beings on earth.

 

7) It wasn't that long ago that we all saw first hand how Muslims were treated in the wake of the actions of Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. Do you think Namor, Magneto, Apocalypse, Vulcan, Sinsiter don't engender similar reactions for the rest of mutant kind?

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Wait, isn't the Sub-Mariner a half-Atlantean prince? When did he become a mutant?

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

 

PS. Dr. Strange probably could train quite a few apprentices, but the majority of his training in the mystical arts was so that he would know better than to do things like that.

[Cygnia]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Wait, isn't the Sub-Mariner a half-Atlantean prince? When did he become a mutant?

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

 

PS. Dr. Strange probably could train quite a few apprentices, but the majority of his training in the mystical arts was so that he would know better than to do things like that.

 

I remember Marvel listing Namor as the first mutant back in the early 90's.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

I remember Marvel listing Namor as the first mutant back in the early 90's.

 

Long before that...Namor was pegged as a mutant in X-men #6(yes...the original series).

[RexMundi]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

He's technically a Mutant. He has stuff Other then his Hybrid Physiology. Especially when you count ALL his powers, heh...... Granted though his title of First Mutant went out the door when all the "We've Been Mutants Forever!!!!" crap started showing up thanks to the Clairmont/Austen "Great Idea!" factory.

 

~Rex...says Namor was Outed as a Mutant way back in 64 (X-Men #6)...they stopped saying that for a while to differentiate him from the rest of the Mutie Scum, them back in 1990 in his own title relaunch they brought back the term. He is the Oldest by PRINT,of the Marvel Mutants. Just not the chronologically Oldest...

[Greywind]

Re: How can mutants be discriminated against while other "supers" get a pass?

 

Especially when combined with their other common, and insultingly stupid, claim that all of the very wide variety of mutant powers, not just the ones that could reasonably be explained this way, come from a single gene. Including Wolverine's ability to break the law of conservation of mass and energy with his healing factor and Cyclops having portals to the D&D-esque Plane of Infinite Red Concussive Energy inside of his eyeballs and being able to block this energy with no more than his skin whilst still having just as much inertia and toughness as a normal human of his size and weight.

Cyke collects, processes and stores solar energy. The same as Havok does with cosmic.

 

Wait' date=' isn't the Sub-Mariner a half-Atlantean prince? When did he become a mutant? [/quote']He's one of the first known mutants.

 

I remember Marvel listing Namor as the first mutant back in the early 90's.

Which flies in the face of Apocalypse.