Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

[Cassandra]

Many Champions powers were inspired by Comic Book Characters.

 

Missile Deflection - Wonder Woman's Bracelets, Captain America's Shield.

 

Multiform - Bruce Banner's transformation into the Hulk, Dr. Don Blake's transformation into Thor, Billy Batson transformed into Captain Marvel.

 

 

Many Champions disadvantages and power limitations were also inspired by Comic Book Characters.

 

Incantations - Zatanna's need to say her spells backwards, Billy Batson's need to say SHAZAM in order to transform.

 

Susceptilibity - Superman's susceptibility to Green Kryptonite Radiation.

 

What others are there?

[Escafarc]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Swinging- Batman's Batline and Spider-man's web

Entangle Spide-man's webs

Danger Sense- Spidey's- Spider Sense

Super Leap- The Hulk

[fbdaury]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Multipower- Ultra Boy, LSH- the reason the all or nothing slots were called ULTRA slots.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Most Enhanced Senses are straight from Superman (N-Ray Vision?)

[psyber624]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Pretty much every power could point to some hero or other in comics. Of course unless Steve and the gang decide to chime in there is no way of knowing what character actually inspired any particular power, as most of them have been used by multiple characters over the years. A better goal might be "Good Examples of Powers from the Comics".

[Egyptoid]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Tracking Scent - Wolverine.

 

Force Wall : Sue Richards

 

Distinctive Features (Verbal) {Sweet Christmas, Clobbering Time, Hoary Host of Hoggoth, etc}

 

 

----

 

Let's play this game reversed:

 

Which super in the comics had their Mind Scan powers work closest to the way described in Hero ?

[Greywind]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

I've never agreed with a catch phrase being a Distinctive Feature.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Which super in the comics had their Mind Scan powers work closest to the way described in Hero ?

 

Professor Xavier has done so, particularly in conjunction with Cerebro. I believe the animated version of Martian Manhunter has done so as well.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Incantations - Zatanna's need to say her spells backwards' date=' Billy Batson's need to say SHAZAM in order to transform.[/quote']

 

Gotta disagree on that one. Incantations first showed up in Fantasy due to D&D's Verbal components, with Gestures being Somatic components.

[Greywind]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Zatanna and Captain Marvel both predate D&D

[Tasha]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Many Champions powers were inspired by Comic Book Characters.

 

Missile Deflection - Wonder Woman's Bracelets, Captain America's Shield.

 

Multiform - Bruce Banner's transformation into the Hulk, Dr. Don Blake's transformation into Thor, Billy Batson transformed into Captain Marvel.

 

 

Many Champions disadvantages and power limitations were also inspired by Comic Book Characters.

 

Incantations - Zatanna's need to say her spells backwards, Billy Batson's need to say SHAZAM in order to transform.

 

Susceptilibity - Superman's susceptibility to Green Kryptonite Radiation.

 

What others are there?

 

Incantations first Appeared in Fantasy Hero 1st ed. It was there to mirror D&D Verbal spell components. It DOES help create powers for Casters like Dr Strange and Zatanna who need verbal components to their spells

[Tasha]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Pretty much every power could point to some hero or other in comics. Of course unless Steve and the gang decide to chime in there is no way of knowing what character actually inspired any particular power' date=' as most of them have been used by multiple characters over the years. A better goal might be "Good Examples of Powers from the Comics".[/quote']

 

When it comes to the original design of Hero. The only people who could possibly answer the question with authority are George McDonald, Steve Peterson and the members of the Original Guardians Campaign.

 

I am sure that the original Powerlist came from some Brainstorming as to what powers existed in comics.

 

This thread is a fun exercise in reverse engineering the system. Trying to figure out what superhero gave rise to what power, advantage and Limitation.

 

We should all remember that the Powerset in Champions 1st/2nd edition was slightly different from what we have today. Some powers were added on with Champions Supplements. Others with specific Genre books ie FH was the first place that Gestures/Incantations/Requires a Skill roll, the Images Power and others appeared in. Skills weren't a part of Champions till Champions II shipped. So don't assume that every ability had it's basis in the Superheroic Genre. Some were part of the Pulp Genre (Justice Inc.), Some part of the Fantasy Genre (Fantasy Hero), and some abilities were part of the Spy/Adventure genre (Espionage/ Danger International).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Zatanna and Captain Marvel both predate D&D

And D&D predates Champions/Hero System. And the idea of magic words and arcane gesticulations predate Zatanna and Captain Marvel by millennia.

[Tasha]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

And D&D predates Champions/Hero System. And the idea of magic words and arcane gesticulations predate Zatanna and Captain Marvel by millennia.

 

You are missing the real point here.

 

Gestures and Incantations first Appeared in Fantasy Hero 1st Edition. They were there to allow people to create spells like exist in A-D&D which was the most popular game system at the time FH shipped. Superheroes did not shape the reason that Gestures and Incantations appeared in the FH rules. Since the limitations were placed in a Fantasy version of the Hero system and didn't appear in Champions till a later edition. Superheroes weren't the reason for those limitations to appear in the rules.

[Tasha]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Super Senses, = Doc Savage the Man of Bronze (Predates Supes and Batty by a bunch)

 

Psychological Limitations - Every character in the original Marvel Universe

 

Distinctive Features - The Hulk

 

Hunted - The Batman (by the Joker)

 

Reputation - The Green Hornet (as Mobster/Criminal)

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

I am not missing the point at all. It was already stated several times that Gestures and Incantations first appeared in Fantasy Hero and I understood it the first time it was said. I was just responding to someone who seemed to be trying to argue despite​ the facts.

You are missing the real point here.

 

Gestures and Incantations first Appeared in Fantasy Hero 1st Edition. They were there to allow people to create spells like exist in A-D&D which was the most popular game system at the time FH shipped. Superheroes did not shape the reason that Gestures and Incantations appeared in the FH rules. Since the limitations were placed in a Fantasy version of the Hero system and didn't appear in Champions till a later edition. Superheroes weren't the reason for those limitations to appear in the rules.

[Egyptoid]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Gestures and Incantations first Appeared in Fantasy Hero 1st Edition. .

 

title of thread is what?

 

I've never agreed with a catch phrase being a Distinctive Feature.

 

YMMV. If the character ALWAYS says it, it can be that and a Psych. Disad.

 

Mr Incredible : "Showtime!"

[GhostDancer]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Re: Catch phrases as Distinctive Features -

 

YMMV. If the character ALWAYS says it, it can be that and a Psych. Disad.

 

Mr Incredible : "Showtime!"

Especially if the character says it in every ID, and even when his team is trying to sneak up on someone, eh?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Zatanna and Captain Marvel both predate D&D

 

Incantations first Appeared in Fantasy Hero 1st ed. It was there to mirror D&D Verbal spell components. It DOES help create powers for Casters like Dr Strange and Zatanna who need verbal components to their spells

 

And D&D predates Champions/Hero System. And the idea of magic words and arcane gesticulations predate Zatanna and Captain Marvel by millennia.

 

Gestures and Incantations first Appeared in Fantasy Hero 1st Edition. They were there to allow people to create spells like exist in A-D&D which was the most popular game system at the time FH shipped. Superheroes did not shape the reason that Gestures and Incantations appeared in the FH rules. Since the limitations were placed in a Fantasy version of the Hero system and didn't appear in Champions till a later edition. Superheroes weren't the reason for those limitations to appear in the rules.

 

Yup. Open Sesame and other magical incantations predate both by a considerable margin. Pulp sword and sorcery commonly featured gesticulations and arcane phrasing to cast spells. Double, Double Toil and Trouble provided incantations and a Focus for magic in Shakespeare.

 

Pre-4e, I suspect most of us would have used "Limited Power - Must Speak/Gesture" in Champions.

 

We should all remember that the Powerset in Champions 1st/2nd edition was slightly different from what we have today. Some powers were added on with Champions Supplements. Others with specific Genre books ie FH was the first place that Gestures/Incantations/Requires a Skill roll' date=' the Images Power and others appeared in. Skills weren't a part of Champions till Champions II shipped. So don't assume that every ability had it's basis in the Superheroic Genre. Some were part of the Pulp Genre (Justice Inc.), Some part of the Fantasy Genre (Fantasy Hero), and some abilities were part of the Spy/Adventure genre (Espionage/ Danger International).[/quote']

 

While I agree with most of the above, 1e had skills. It was a shorter list, and some of them have changed a lot, but I remember Acrobatics costing 10 points, requiring a half move and granting +2 (IIRC) DCV.

 

Super Senses, = Doc Savage the Man of Bronze (Predates Supes and Batty by a bunch)

 

Psychological Limitations - Every character in the original Marvel Universe

 

Code vs Killing - well beyond Marvel. The LSH punted a member over that back in the '60s, for example.

 

Distinctive Features - The Hulk

 

The Thing came first - and wasn't it Unusual Looks initially ("Distinctive" didn't cut in back in 1e/2e!)

 

Hunted - The Batman (by the Joker)

 

Lex Luthor; lots of rogues gallery villains

 

Reputation - The Green Hornet (as Mobster/Criminal)

 

I suspect a number of mechanics were developed in response to "How do I make this comic book character's ability", but which character may be less than clear.

[Tasha]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

1st/2nd edition Champions(We call them different Editions, but 2nd edition had spelling corrections and minor changes that most players never realized existed) So for the most part are the same edition.

 

The Skill List was:

Acrobatics

Climbing

Computer Programing

Detective Work (was a catchall for skills that weren't part of the system)

Disguise

Find Weakness

Luck

Martial Arts (which was one generic ability)

Security Systems

Stealth

Swinging.

 

Find Weakness and Luck were originally Skills

 

This list was a bit longer that I remembered (I went back and copied down the list that appeared in the 2nd Ed Champions TOC.) My gaming friends saw those as nothing more than a different kind of power. Which some of them were.

 

I agree that nearly every mechanic in Champions was an answer to the question "what abilities do Different Superheroes have". What heroes that George was thinking of when he made the list is only conjecture on our parts. The Guardians Universe seemed to be an Homage to the Marvel Universe (as evidenced by the Villains that appeared in Champions, Champions II, Enemies, Enemies II and the first 3 adventures. Things published after that seemed to come from other people's campaigns). I have it on good authority that the original campaign was played at a lower powerlevel than most people do now (ie DC 8). Other campaigns run by people who were affiliated with the Original hero folk were much higher powerlevels (those groups actually influenced our gaming group somewhat. Due to shared players between the campaigns). I figure that the Spy genre and the Pulp genre probably also influenced George and others that worked on Champions. I say this due to the fact that the second big Hero release was Espionage, followed by the Pulp Genre, Justice Inc. So it makes sense to include Pulp genre Mystery men and Super Spys (and spy gadgetry) in any discussion as to what Hero/Villain influenced the development of a particular Power.

 

PS yes Distinctive Features were originally called "Unusual Looks".

 

I meant stuff beyond Code vs Killing which was a staple of all Comics of the Comic Code era. It was required by the Code. I was talking about nearly every hero in the MU having some sort of hangup and no small amount of angst about something. It might be looking like a monster, or being a nerd, or being a teen Superhero and wanting to live a "normal Life". All of the Marvel Heroes had it some way or the other. DC's heroes were paragons, perfect people, boring like parents.

[assault]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

DC's heroes were paragons' date=' perfect people, boring like parents.[/quote']

 

Heh. I like "boring like parents". Of course, that's really "boring like adults".

 

Actually, one of the things I like about the Mort Weisinger Superman and Supergirl - the true high point of DC's Silver Age - is that there is a real sense of loss and tragedy in many stories. Many other stories are just plain comedy, but it's definitely part of the flavour. It's subtle of course - it's aimed at little kids, after all - but kids understand sadness perfectly well.

 

In comparison, the Marvel angst monsters are as subtle as a brick.

 

Unfortunately this stuff is a bit difficult to translate into game terms. Appropriate uses of DNPCs and Psych Limitations might work - after all, these losses can be a driving force for making sure nobody else suffers the same way...

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

The Thing came first - and wasn't it Unusual Looks initially ("Distinctive" didn't cut in back in 1e/2e!)

For that matter, I'm fairly certain green hair, chalk white complexion, and a rictus grin would qualify for an appearance-based Limitation/Complication. And don't Dick Tracy's physically freakish villains date back to the early 30s?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

Sure - I was only addressing the Hulk as the example. That said, it never seemed the Joker or those Dick Tracy villains suffered any disadvantage for their freakish appearances. Maybe they only had Distinctive Features!

[GoldenAge]

Re: Champions Powers and Their Comic Book Inspiration

 

The 6th Ed creation of Barrier seems to me to have been done in order to mimic all of the diversity of a Green Lantern Power ring. Previously, Force Wall was only capable of mimicking a small fraction of a Green Lantern's power, the rest having to be created from a menagerie of other powers. It always seemed forced and clunky (Making a simple force-bridge out of modified Flight for example). Now, with Barrier, reaching the true potential of a TK wielding superstar like GL is easy (If not slightly unbalanced).