Why run Hero 6th?

[IndianaJoe3]

It's the same reason that most people do better on multiple choice tests vs. fill in the blank ones.

 

I think Hero is more of an essay question... but I think we're going off-topic. :-)

[UbiquitousRat]

Thanks, Spence, for the advice. I have partially followed that strategy thus far.

 

To recap, my group is playing an ongoing but still early days fantasy campaign but they are unhappy with the existing game (a home brew they helped build but which has problems). After hearing their feedback, I have got their agreement to switch to HERO. One player also owns 6e (I discovered) but hasn't played it, just got it cause it sounded cool. The most influential player is also keen, having played a one-off of HERO years ago with fond memories. Three other guys are new to it, only one is dubious.

 

They want me to port their existing heroes, which I am working on at present. Two to go: Uruk Warrior and Human Priest.

 

We'll play the story but I'm going to do the tweaking you suggested. We're using HD, do that makes managing characters easy enough. As we play, over two or three sessions (we meet fortnightly, so this will be slow), I can both teach them the rules and build up my own confidence with the system. I'm going to keep an open door on any player who wants to re-design their character to fit their own vision of things, but I expect that they will just tweak their pre-gen. They are pretty attached to their characters, so as long as they can tweak to fit, things will be ok.

 

The best tip is not to allow a TPK or character death to derail things. I'm going to put them through a traditional style adventure, part of the world but not really part of the campaign per-se, just more of a test-run dungeon. Whatever happens, this will be their chance to get into playing HERO.

 

As for character sheets, my guys are ok with the standard sheet this far. If I could work out how to use the export functions produce a sheet I could .PDF and that actually fit onto A4 pages, I'd be delighted to use it... but the cool sheet I tried earlier in the week only exports to .HTML and the printout screws up the pagination, so it ends up looking crappy. Anyone with tips on that?

 

Otherwise, this weekend is "get the characters finished" weekend, and then I can focus on building a couple of encounters. I probably need a fight or two, plus some standard adventure encounters for a 4-hour session next Friday. Then it's game on... And hope they don't freak out.

 

Down the line, I am going to set up a game for the teenage group I have at the school where I work. But one thing at a time.

[ghost-angel]

The Hero Designer Exports will create HTML, TXT, and RTF most easily. But not PDF. Just the build in PDF Export will do that.

 

I would find an RTF Export you like and use that. As they're the easier to export and adjust manually. This is what I do.

I use Shane Harsh's "Compact 6E" RTF template as the starting point.

[Lucius]

I use RTF export too, and when I want to post I just paste it into the body of the post.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

the palindromedary says that in fact I REALLY OUGHT to go print some characters RIGHT NOW....

[Hugh Neilson]

Hero is faster than D+D 4th by a MILE.

 

The only thing that makes 6th a litttle slower are two powers with stop signs, and if you don't use them, combat runs pretty quick. Damage Negation is a logistical nightmare that gives me fits, especially if more than one person in the group has Damage Negation. I banned this power. All it takes is one area effect and combat slows to a crawl. The other is the removal of Transfer from the game, clearly a mistake. Now it's Drain, Aid, cobble together results. This is the worst idea ever. 3 rolls to resolve instead of 2, and the laws of superhero physics go completely haywire. You can gain more than you take away easily. If this is my suite of super-abilities, as a player, you just became a jerk. "I drain him! I aid me! And I also aid this guy because the aid is area effect!"

 

GM: Thanks, Captain Confusion! I knew I could count on you! How did you get more power than you took away from him?

I favour the de-linking of Transfer, for consistency. As well, when you bought an advantage on Transfer, you effectively bought it on both Aid and Drain, even if it was only useful on one (who needs Ranged Aid Self Only?). Then we got rulings to buy advantages that work on only one (reduced fade rate has to be bought for the Drain aspect, and again for the Aid aspect). Why? I'm paying the advantage cost on the points paid for both aspects.

 

To me, the answer to "different amounts" is simple - when you link them, they roll once for both effects. But, if I Drain 5 STR from Grond, and add 5 to my 10 STR character, did we REALLY get equal amounts? Grond's 90 was cut in half to 85, and my 10 was doubled to 15. If it does not make sense to Drain one target and then aid yourself plus other targets for differing amounts, then don't build the power that way. That's Hero 101.

 

I run Hero 6th because it is an improvement over 5th with the exception of 5 things. Aid/Drain (Transfer was better), Growth (4th edition Growth was better), Damage Negation, END + STUN vs. Defense Levels, Replacement of " symbol with Meters.

Aid/Drain discussed above. I prefer the old Growth, but 6e is more consistent with the size templates. I like the fact that REC, END and STUN pricing now makes it worth considering more END/REC rather than "reduced END" and more STUN/REC rather than more defenses. I agree entirely with using real world terms to have one less confusion point for new playes (do any modern games still use wargame inches instead of feet or meters?)

 

I like Damage Negation, but only in rare circumstances. I think it allows for Supers to bleed. If the game norm is 20 - 25 defenses and 12 DC attacks, when will a normal attack inflict BOD damage? NEVER is when. If, instead, we make the norm 5-7 defenses and 6 DC's of Damage Negation, a 12d6 attack will have an average roll of 21 (14-16 STUN past defenses, rather than 17-22) and will get some BOD damage through on occasion. Its also a lot easier to make bulletproof characters. Now, I'm more a silver/bronze ager, so I don't want a lot of BOD damage in my game, but for Supers who are immune to normal weapons, but can be killed by attacks at their own power level, DN is a great option.

 

Most importantly - it is an OPTION, to be used or not depending on whether it adds to the game.

 

Of these, two are combat decomplication (Why would you add new powers or remove powers that slow combat down?), One is stylistic differences, One is "I only run mapless combat when forced, and the meters issue means you can't use a 1-1 ratio. 1 hex=2 meters. Now you have to pick the scale of the map before you start every time."

I'm missing why it is hard for the map to still be 2 meters = 1 hex. None of the pricing changes.

 

Shrinking is another pet peeve. 6 points per level for the benefits it grants? More than three eats your average bell curve and spits it out.

IIRC, it compares reasonably to the cost of buying the abilities, with the END cost attached and the drawbacks of reduced size.

 

I think some folks want the Standard Effect rule to pump out the average result of the dice.

 

example:

10d6 average = 35

10d6 Standard Effect = 30

 

I always interpreted this as a small risk/reward incentive to go with the random dice result.  Your results, on average, will do better than the Standard Effect but you will occasionally get a low roll as well.  If you want to eliminate the possibility of bad results it should cost something if not a full +1/4 Advantage.

Not to me. The defense structure is such that volatile results are generally preferable over time, so a penalty for less volatile results is a double penalty.

 

Target's defenses are 25 vs 12d6. Average 12d6 attack rolls 42, passes 17 STUN through. Standard passes 11 through. The volatile attack gets a better average, a potential to STUN and how often will that 12d6 roll less than 36? if it rolls 30, 36 and 43, it still did better than standard effect.

 

Has anyone ever run a game with characters having comparable attacks, with one using Standard and the other rolling? I doubt it, but I'm pretty sure I know the results.

[UbiquitousRat]

Question: Complications, can they be bought off? If so, do they need to be replaced, or does the character take a points hit, or do they just get bought off?

[L. Marcus]

Yes.

 

Or, it depends on circumstances.

[Hugh Neilson]

I find it easiest to think of a Perk called "Reduced Complications". Every point you invest in this Perk reduces your complications required by one point. So a 175 point character with 50 points of complications could pay 25 points for Reduced Complications and 150 points on other abilities of the character.

 

As the game has evolved, most layers maximize their complications (don't buy Reduced Complications) for a couple of main reasons. First, the loss of character points for other abilities is viewed as more disadvantageous than the Complications. Second, many players see Complications as an expression of their character's personality and a means of guiding the GM to challenges they want to see come up in the campaign.

 

They can always be bought off (more points invested in Reduced Complications) and that has been the case throughout the game's history. Whether they can be replaced has been an ongoing debate for most of the same period, but my recollection is that the current rules explicitly permit this. I've always allowed it, because it is more consistent with the source material. The heroes defeat old enemies and make new ones, supporting cast changes, and some aspects of personality grow and change, but the heroes always have something complicating their lives, so clearly their complications are being replaced over time.

 

As well, to the "types of challenges" issue, the change may not reflect a change in the character's life, but a change on the gameplay focus. He still has a frail old Aunt that he looks after, and the police still don't like or trust him, but they are no longer taking game time by impacting the adventure played out at the gaming table, so they are no longer Complications. If we look to source material, that could mean the character starts out Hunted by one enemy and his girlfriend regularly becomes involved in his adventures. Over time, he defeats that enemy (who is traded in for a new one) and his girlfriend stops becoming involved in his adventures (no in-game reason, and she is still his girlfriend, the coincidences connecting her in just stop), but he also forms a bond with a local Super Agency, and his new loyalties sometimes cause issues in his adventures. Later, he may defeat that new enemy and have a falling out with that Super Agency. The Super Agency might become a new enemy, and his old enemy might resurface looking for revenge, or with new plots the character just stumbles over.

 

From a game play perspective, sometimes complications run their course - we've played them out, they're getting boring. So bring in something fresh. But if we tell the player "Your next 15 xp go to buy off the girlfriend", this is (or can be) a penalty. So remove the penalty - ask him to replace the girlfriend with something new and fresh to complicate his character's life.

 

Some complications may be central to the character, and remain forever (can anyone envision Superman giving up the Clark Kent identity, or losing his moral fibre/boy scout heroism/code against killing?) Others may be quite transient (his enemies have come and gone over the years; staff changes at the Daily Planet). Others may always be there, but have reduced game play impact (the writers use Kryptonite every other issue, the editors/readers get frustrated and bored with this laziness in creating challenges; kryptonite gets written out in an adventure, or just fades into disuse in the stories).

 

SUMMARY: Anyway, I'm running on at the mouth, but the simple takeaway is, sure, you can spend points and buy off complications and sure, you can change your complications over the course of the campaign. In both cases, it would best be done in a manner consistent with character and campaign growth, and should always be based on what would make the game more fun.

[UbiquitousRat]

Thanks, guys, for the thoughts on Complications.

 

Been fiddling with the export format for HD sheets, but none of them really improve on the basic .PDF (excepting the .HTML ones, which I can't print properly). In lieu of the skills and time to make "easy for beginners" sheets, I think it's safest to use the standard one.

 

My guys are all experienced RPGers, so I am sure we'll manage.

[massey]

I'm gonna chime in on the general topic here.  I've played HERO for a long time now, and while we still play 5th edition and never transitioned to 6th, I think I've generally got enough experience that my advice can be helpful.

 

First, HERO went through a big transition from 5th edition to 6th edition, where a lot of the underlying philosophies of the game changed.  Think of it like going from 2nd edition D&D to 3rd edition.  There are a lot of people who didn't like that change and are quite passionate about it.  You've seen a lot of that in this thread.  A few old arguments have been dug up and some tempers can flare.  You're also seeing people's general campaign averages come out in some of this thread, and I'll get to that in a bit.

 

Now, one thing that is important to understand is whatever basic decisions you make at the beginning, when you are setting up your game, will determine a lot of how the game flows from there on out.  For instance, heroic versus superheroic.  Hit locations versus no hit locations.  Those decisions (and probably some others) will dramatically change how the game is played.  So advice from people on this board will tend to reflect the decisions they have made in their own games.

 

As an example, I played HERO for like 15 years, in the Champions setting, before I actually tried Fantasy Hero.  We went to heroic scale and used hit locations, two things we had not done before.  We had a GM and two players that night.  Our characters were attacked by two tigers.  The tigers ran up and eviscerated us in one phase.  So the GM waved his magic wand and said "oh, I didn't expect that to happen, here, let's say it's just one tiger".  So the one tiger then ran up and eviscerated me, then in the next phase it eviscerated the other character.

 

It turns out that the assumptions we had made in our superheroic game didn't quite translate over to the heroic scale.  Heroic scale combat can be incredibly lethal.  That's because killing attacks are a lot more likely to stray from the average, and almost everything in heroic scale is killing damage.  A 12D6 energy blast (standard superhero attack) will average about 12 body and 42 stun.  A bad roll on a 12D6 EB would be like 8 body and 30 stun.  A great roll would be 16 body and 60 stun.  As far as superheroic characters go, the average roll will do a fair amount of stun to an average superhero.  A bad roll will do very little, and a great roll will probably stun them and put them dangerously close to unconscious.

 

A 4D6 killing attack, on the other hand, concentrates your damage into a smaller number of dice, so it's a lot easier to roll very low or very high.  An average attack will do 14 body and either 28 or 42 stun (the average stun multiplier being either a 2 or a 3).  But a bad roll could easily be like 7 body and 7 stun.  A good roll could quite easily be 20 body and 80 stun.  When you add in hit locations, it becomes even more pronounced because you can do extra body depending on where you hit someone.  A hit to the vitals or to the head, along with a good damage roll, can kill characters easily.  And while we were experienced players, and theoretically knew these things, knowing it and understanding it are two different things.

[Ndreare]

Here is an abomination of a system for you.

 

I do not make the players select complications!

 

Instead we use the Hero Action Points option from the back of the book. Basically fate points, luck points, karma or whatever. The players receive them when their complications negatively affect them. In this way the players are encourage to take them if they apply and feel rewarded when they come up.

 

if a character grows out of a complication (such as youth) all they do is erase it. But they always want enough stuff to round out the character. A lot of Heroes do not have 150 points in complication when they are new and it can often create what I consider obnoxious repetition among the player characters complications.

 

 

PS: As a second Heresy, I do not make players pay for perks in Heroic games!!!

(Mostly because they can be so transitional. If the perk is "untouchable" then they pay for it. But if it is under my control it is free.)

[massey]

As far as campaign averages go, back in the earlier days, in the first edition through the 5th edition of the rules, your primary statistics (str, dex, con, body, int, ego, pre, com) calculated directly into your figured characteristics.  Your starting PD was your Str divided by 5.  Your OCV and DCV were your Dex divided by 3.  Your Speed was your Dex divided by 10, plus 1 (20 Dex divided by 10 is 2, plus 1 for a total of 3 Speed).

 

Now people usually bought some of those starting values up, because you really don't want a character running around with 3 PD or a 2 Speed.  But it gave people a common range to expect.  People here are criticizing a dwarf with a 9 OCV and DCV because in the old days that meant you had a 26 or 27 Dexterity.  When you remember that those stats are rough D&D equivalents, it makes a lot more sense.

 

Now in 6th edition, your secondary characteristics have been divorced from your primary characteristics.  You can have a character with an 8 Dex and a 10 DCV, or with a 30 Dex and a 3 DCV (as I understand it anyway, not having touched 6th edition I'm not positive on that).

 

Now remember, they're just numbers.  A 9 OCV/DCV is only impressive if it's impressive in your game world.  If your average town guard has an 8 OCV then it's not an issue.  But I think if you look at a lot of the published settings, that's a very high number for a fantasy world.  A good rule of thumb for combat values is this -- if you have to roll less than an 8 to hit someone, then they are going to be so hard to hit that it's not really fun.  If you hit someone unless you roll a 15 or above, then you're almost always going to hit.  So if your ork chieftain has a 5 OCV, and they're swinging against a 9 DCV, then he'll need a 7 or less before he even makes contact.  Maybe what you're going for is a dwarf who is really good at dodging.  Maybe not.  But you should understand what you are building when you build the character.

 

Here's a probability graph that shows how likely you are to get certain numbers on a 3D6 curve.

 

 

In most of the published material, OCV and DCV ranges for fantasy characters will be in a 4 to 6 range.  Sometimes characters will go as high as a 7 or even an 8, but that's about the top end that I've seen.  A 9 is one of those "best in the world" types.  Superheroes tend to average a lot higher.  Minimum superhero OCV/DCV is about 7, and going up to 9 or 10 is not uncommon.

 

Again, these numbers are for the published settings, and many of which were based on older editions when the numbers were tied to stats.  If you make your own setting you can peg the benchmarks wherever you want. 

[massey]

The most important things to learn about playing HERO (and not just building characters) are using the Speed chart, aborting an action, and a handful of the combat maneuvers (specifically, block, dodge, grab, and haymaker).

 

The Speed chart determines the order in which people act.  A player (or GM) who knows the Speed chart very well can stomp all over a player (or GM) who doesn't know it.  It really helps to know if you will get to go before your opponent on your next action.  For instance, let's say I have a character who is Speed 6.  You have a character who is Speed 7.  Other than that difference we are evenly matched (same Dexterity, same combat values, etc).  My actions will come up on phases 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, and 12.  Your actions will come up on phases 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, and 12.  For until phase 6, we are the same.  You will probably fight fairly conservatively because I can match you step for step.  But once we pass phase 6, you have the advantage because your extra action starts to come into play.  You get to act back to back in phases 6 and 7.  I have to wait until 8.  What that means is that you can be very very aggressive in those phases because I don't get a chance to respond.  The difference is more pronounced at lower Speed levels (the difference between Speed 4, acting on 3, 6, 9, and 12, and Speed 5, acting on 3, 5, 8, 10, and 12, is very large).  Knowing when you can commit to certain combat maneuvers and minimize your own risk is huge.  "I can do this maneuver on a particular phase because I get to go again before he does."

 

You may want to make a list before combat begins of each character and what their Speed is.  Call out which phase it is and then go down the list by order of Dex.  For this example we'll say we've got Ragnar (18 Dex, 4 Speed -- 3, 6, 9, and 12), Black Leaf (17 Dex, 5 Speed -- 3, 5, 8, 10, 12), and an Ogre (10 Dex, 3 Speed -- 4, 8, 12). "Phase 1, nobody goes.  Phase 2, nobody goes.  Phase 3, it looks like Ragnar goes first with an 18 Dex.  Now, at 17 Dex, Black Leaf goes.  Phase 4, the Ogre goes.  Phase 5, Black Leaf goes.  Phase 6, Ragnar you go again.  Phase 7, nobody goes.  Phase 8, Black Leaf goes first at 17 Dex.  Then the Ogre goes at 10 Dex.  Phase 9, Ragnar goes.  Phase 10, Black Leaf goes again.  Phase 12, everyone goes.  Ragnar, you're first at 18.  Now Black Leaf at 17.  Now the Ogre at Dex 10."

 

Pay attention to when certain Speeds get an advantage over others.  After a few combat sessions you'll have a better handle on it.

 

Aborting an action is also important.  A few things on this.  One, you can only abort to something that is defensive in nature.  You can't abort to shooting someone in the face.  You can abort to dodge.  You can abort to block.  You can abort to dive for cover.  You can abort to roll with the blow.  You can also abort to other, non-combat maneuver actions if the GM considers them "defensive" in nature.  If you are holding a bomb or something and it's about to explode, you could probably abort to flinging it out the window.  You may also be able to abort to heroic actions, such as throwing yourself onto a grenade, or jumping in front of someone to take a bullet for them.  You can also abort to use a defensive superpower, like throwing up a force field (if you have it, generally your barbarian warrior cannot abort to erecting a quantum force field because he probably doesn't have one).

 

As far as how you abort an action, there are two important rules.  First, you cannot abort an action if you've already acted this phase.  So if I punch a guy in the face on Dex 20 of phase 3, then if he tries to stab me with a sword on Dex 18 of phase 3, I can't abort.  I can't abort at all until segment 4 rolls around.  Once segment 4 gets here, I can abort.  I can abort even if I don't normally get to act on segment 4.  If I'm Speed 4, and I go on 3, 6, 9, and 12, then aborting on segment 4 means I give up my segment 6 action.  I don't get to go again until segment 9.  Now here I've used the words segment and phase almost interchangeably.  People frequently do that so it's good to know the difference.  A game turn is divided into 12 segments.  A phase is the specific segment when your character gets to go.  Most times when you perform a combat maneuver (like say, a martial dodge that gives you +5 DCV), the bonuses (or penalties) last until your next phase, not the next segment.  So if I attack someone on my phase 3, and then on segment 4 they try to stab me with a sword and I abort my phase 6 for a martial dodge, then I've got a +5 DCV until we get to phase 6 (when I would have normally had an action).  That's the second important rule on aborting an action.  Everything resets once you get to the phase you aborted.  In other words, if I abort my phase 6, I get all my bonuses until we actually get to 6.  However, I also can't abort a second time until I get to that phase.  So if I act on phase 3, abort my phase 6 so I can perform a dodge on segment 4, and then on segment 5 some jerk detonates a bomb or something, I can't do anything.  I'm "stuck" dodging.  I haven't had a chance to recover my balance (or whatever), or reorient myself, or anything like that.  I took my action early and I'm completely out of options until my Dex comes up on phase 6.  Once that happens I can abort again, if need be.

 

Clear as mud?

 

The third important thing are the basic combat maneuvers.  They will go a long, long way in adding character to the game and giving it an action-y feel.  They're one of the best things about the HERO system.  Block is an opposed roll against OCV.  You can abort to block.  The Ogre swings his battle axe at you.  He has an OCV of 4.  You abort your next action (because getting hit with a battle axe will suck) and roll your OCV against his OCV.  You have an OCV of 6, so you need to roll a 13 or less.  If you do, the Ogre's attack is wasted.  Your block can be defined as side-stepping his attack, ducking at the appropriate time, parrying it with your sword, or (in superheroic or other appropriate genres) letting it harmlessly bounce off your thick skull.  If you successfully block an attack, you can keep making block rolls against everybody else who attacks you in hand to hand, but you suffer a -2 penalty for every person after the first.  If you miss a block, you can't continue to block until you use another action for it.  Missile Deflection is a power you can buy that lets you perform blocks against ranged attacks.

 

Dodge is a defensive maneuver that you can abort to.  The basic dodge that everyone can do gives you +3 DCV.  That applies in hand to hand and at range.  It also applies against everyone who attacks you.  Martial dodge is a martial art maneuver you have to pay points for, it gives you +5 DCV instead of +3.  Depending on the character and the circumstances it may be better to dodge rather than block.

 

Grab is a strength versus strength contest.  I believe it's -2 to your OCV, but if you succeed you roll damage dice for your strength against your opponent.  So if I have a 15 strength I roll 3 dice.  You want to score high on the body of the dice (rolling 6s and avoiding 1s helps).  They do the same.  If you score higher than them, they're grabbed and can't use their arms, etc.  One their next action they'll get a chance to break out, however.  You'll want to look closely at the grab rules because there are a number of different little things that I can't really summarize here.

 

Finally you have the big one, the haymaker.  Haymaker adds 4 damage classes to your attack, for free.  You don't pay Endurance for it, you don't pay points for it, you just get it free.  However, it carries penalties.  You get -5 to your DCV while you are performing the haymaker.  And it doesn't land until the end of your next segment.  So if you perform a haymaker on your phase 3, it doesn't land until the very end of segment 4.  If your opponent has an action during segment 4, and he moves out of the way, your haymaker automatically fails.  This is when it's important to look at and understand the Speed chart.  You don't want to waste time haymakering someone if they're just going to move out of the way.  So if you are Speed 5, fighting a Speed 4, don't haymaker on 8, because your opponent goes on segment 9 and will just step out of the way.  Then he'll hit you while you're at -5 DCV.  Higher Speed characters also don't want to perform a haymaker when they have back to back phases.  If I'm Speed 7 (and I go on 2, 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, and 12) I sure as hell don't want to perform a haymaker on phase 6.  That's because I will use my phase 6, and then still be performing the haymaker during my phase 7 (which means I lose the attack).  It's much better to perform a haymaker during a portion of the combat when nobody is going to get an attack.  Do a haymaker on phase 12, because that means it lands at the end of phase 1, and nobody goes on 1 except people with a 12 Speed.

 

 

--

 

That's a whole lot of combat advice.  I hope it's not overwhelming.  Play a few mock fights out, and try using the maneuvers once you understand the Speed chart.  When you get a good handle on the various maneuvers in the combat system you'll have a much more satisfying experience.  My suggestion for starting out would be to find the old 4th edition 250 point superheroes.  They have very simple powers, and their combats won't kill one another.  So they're good to learn on.

[Spence]

Question: Complications, can they be bought off? If so, do they need to be replaced, or does the character take a points hit, or do they just get bought off?

 

 

Yes.

 

Or, it depends on circumstances.

 

 

SUMMARY: Anyway, I'm running on at the mouth, but the simple takeaway is, sure, you can spend points and buy off complications and sure, you can change your complications over the course of the campaign. In both cases, it would best be done in a manner consistent with character and campaign growth, and should always be based on what would make the game more fun.

 

Short answer is Yes.  A player can buy off their Complications with the following caveat:

Buying off the Complication must make logical sense for the character within the framework of the campaign.   

 

In other words you as the GM must approve it.   As Hugh Neilson mentioned,  there are many things to carefully consider.

 

Also remember this.  As a GM there will come turning points in a well run campaign where you will need to step in and personally add or buy off Complications for the Hero. 

 

Consider this. 

In my Supers games my players all give me the GM what I call Mystery Complications.    They all take 5 to 25 points that I have as a secret pool of fun that can be sprung on them. 

I also use Mystery Experience.  This is a running tab of experience points (outside of and in addition to regular experience) for each character that the player doesn't know about.  Well they know about them, but they have no control of them.  

 

In many fantasy/superhero stories the characters will suddenly discover a new ability or push their abilities to a level that they simply didn't know they had.  A sudden surge of power.  Or they will discover that they are being targeted by an enemy they didn't know they had.   The list goes on. 

 

But the availability of Mystery Points allows the character reap the benefits of the point value while at the same time allowing me to get devious.   The trick is that anything you do must be consistent with the campaign and the PC in question.   And you must be willing to adjust what you do.  Your players will get into it and many times their suggestions to improve on something you do are far more fun than what you originally came up with. 

[Nolgroth]

Here is an abomination of a system for you.

 

I do not make the players select complications!

 

Instead we use the Hero Action Points option from the back of the book. Basically fate points, luck points, karma or whatever. The players receive them when their complications negatively affect them. In this way the players are encourage to take them if they apply and feel rewarded when they come up.

 

if a character grows out of a complication (such as youth) all they do is erase it. But they always want enough stuff to round out the character. A lot of Heroes do not have 150 points in complication when they are new and it can often create what I consider obnoxious repetition among the player characters complications.

 

 

PS: As a second Heresy, I do not make players pay for perks in Heroic games!!!

(Mostly because they can be so transitional. If the perk is "untouchable" then they pay for it. But if it is under my control it is free.)

 

I am of a similar mind on both Complications and Perks.  Physical Complications (including Susceptability/Vulnerability) are semi permanent and give points back like 5th Edition Disadvantages (I was underwhelmed by the tomfoolery that happened in the transition). They must also be bought off with points. Social, Psychological, Hunted, Berserk/Enraged all give HAPs.  Perks don't require HAPs to activate, but they guarantee a successful activation. The more useful the perk, the more HAPs. Note that I also give out HAPs as rewards during play so even if your Complication isn't activated for a while, you are not denied access to Perks. I love HAPs because they allow players to choose when something is important enough to guarantee a roll. HAPs also work with non-combat skill rolls in the same way as Perks. They work in combat pretty much as described.

[massey]

Superman probably won't be spending points to buy off his Code Against Killing.  It's an integral part of the character that helps define him.  But sometimes in future stories, Superman is shown as being more resistant to Kryptonite, having soaked up yellow sun for several decades.  So that's an instance where he did spend his points to reduce or eliminate a complication.

 

In your fantasy game if your character is hunted by the Ork Warlord, and you manage to kill him off in the course of the game, then it would make sense for you to buy off that complication.  On the other hand, it may just go dormant for a few adventures until you manage to piss off Marvin the Sorcerer.  In that event, you would switch your hunted from Ork Warlord to the new guy who hates you.  No points spent, but the complication changed over the course of the game.

 

Edit: And here I am, talking about Complications like they're Disadvantages in 5th edition and earlier.  If they're something different than I withdraw my statement.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Excellent advice Massey.  Because of the "bell curve", the numbers in Hero are of extreme importance.  It's important to understand how these numbers interact to find the balance you want for your game.  The same goes for the damage system.  Depending on what options you activate (hit locations, Impairing/Disabling etc) it's important to understand how much damage vs defense you want in the campaign.  The balance you achieve depends on these decisions and will have a significant effect on the feel of the game.

[Ndreare]

I am not sure if I sugested this yet, but it you want to see how huge of a diferece a few points can make. Set up a compat seen with the following

 

Each side is a "Normal Human" (a ten in everything) they also have a Multi Power with 2d6 Energy Blast.

Fight them, (the battle should take 4-6 phases)

 

Add +2 CV for one of them.

Fight them

 

Add 1d6 entangle to the multi power for both of them.

Fight them

 

Add +2 rPD to one chracter

Fight them

 

Finally add 1/2d6 Killing Attack (1D6+1 after strength)

Fight them

 

While this is subject to the swing of only 2 dice it lets you see how much minor advantages can have huge effects. Each time yu can see how much od a differnce makes for even 10 Active Points on improvement.

 

Plus you learn the system. We have used Hero were each player had a 5 man team like this as a war game to teach the system to players. Everyone always sees the huge value of maneuvers and the killing attack and the new players learn the essence of the system in one session that only takes 1 or 2 hours.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Here is an abomination of a system for you.

 

I do not make the players select complications!

 

Instead we use the Hero Action Points option from the back of the book. Basically fate points, luck points, karma or whatever. The players receive them when their complications negatively affect them. In this way the players are encourage to take them if they apply and feel rewarded when they come up.

 

if a character grows out of a complication (such as youth) all they do is erase it. But they always want enough stuff to round out the character. A lot of Heroes do not have 150 points in complication when they are new and it can often create what I consider obnoxious repetition among the player characters complications.

 

 

PS: As a second Heresy, I do not make players pay for perks in Heroic games!!!

(Mostly because they can be so transitional. If the perk is "untouchable" then they pay for it. But if it is under my control it is free.)

as far as Perks are concerned, if a Perk someone has paid for becomes worthless in any way, I allow the player to shift those points to a new Perk that would make sense for the character based on circumstances, or allow them to fold those points back into their character (increase a characteristic or buy a new skill etc).  But I tend to try and avoid destroying perks and the like unless it serves the story, and if that's the case, I always put in a way to recoup those points (new Contact or Follower etc)

[bluesguy]

In my FH game people have had Perks that have been very handy.  For instance, a character that is a noble and wealthy has perks for that.  The player always had coin (wealthy) except when she needed to get something very expensive.  And she got invited to all the right parties.  She could walk into the 'good' part of town.  Everyone else in the party had to travel with her to that part of town and had to have official business there (she didn't have to have official business to be there).

 

Also FH characters with followers to represent squires, familiars, etc. is another way Perks can be used.

 

I often give out extra XP to cover contacts or favors.

[Ndreare]

One big reasoni like to let the perks be abstracted is players like to keep their lot,sometimes they will save a nobles life and gaina contact or they will be framed and shunned. If they Rob a bad guys bank and get millions they want to keep it, they do not want to keep track of the points ofa servant or a fast car they just want them.

[Lucius]

For that matter, I have abolished Complications in the latest incarnation of my fantasy hero game.

 

What I AM using is "Negative Powers" recorded in the Powers part of the character as "Custom Powers" with a negative point cost. And I'm using fewer of them. No Hunteds or Dependent Non Player characters, for example, although a player is free to have enemies and friends. But something like Unluck, which is obviously the direct equal and opposite of Luck, now functions that way in the accounting - just as adding 2 dice of Luck to a character makes it a character with a point total 10 points higher, adding 2 dice of Unluck now makes it a character with a point total 10 points lower.

 

Because in my opinion, if something isn't actually changing the point value of your character, it shouldn't have a point value associated with it. If it DOES, the point value associated with it should be the amount by which it changes the overall point value.

 

Simple. Straightforward. Easy to understand. All those things I think Hero can and should be but that Hero's detractors like to say it isn't.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that I seem to now be resigned to our drift off topic

[ghost-angel]

For your first campaign or two, I recommend using Complications by the book - this can help a player get their imagination running, or just simply get the rules as written understood.

 

After that, a number of people have suggested some great ideas for Complications. One group I run with has decided that Complication Points are not the way to go, but simply to create 2-4 complications that will drive that Character's Story. Background and Personality traits, weaknesses and plot issues, and so on - these are things that the Players would like to see come up for their character in the game and help drive them. This brings out, for us at least, the most important Character and Plot Complications you want for your character, and tends to ditch the smaller number of Throw Away Complications you added in because you just needed an extra 5 or 15 Points to fulfill and artificial requirement.

[UbiquitousRat]

Right... So, you got me playing HERO. You got me converting my regular group's fantasy game. All good.

 

Next development: Would introducing HERO to teenage RPG newbies at the school club be a good idea? What would be different?

[Ndreare]

Well I have found teenagers learn the rules faster and are less intimidated by changes.

My nephew and his friends have been allowed to play with us since they turned 16 (now 18+) and they are easy more opened minded than people my own age (35).