Sherlock Scan

[Steve]

For a detailed explanation of what I am talking about, see this article.

 

One aspect of this would not exactly be heightened perception, but more like the ability to notice clues that are important that others miss because they are too subtle to notice (a smell or faint discoloration) or hidden somehow. As a super-skill I'm thinking this might be a form of Detect (Detect Clue?) instead of a Perception bonus. Using such an ability with a good Deduction roll will help the character solve crimes.

 

The Dark Champions super-skill "Found It" which is a bonus to skills related to finding things is kind of like what I looking to construct, but it might be a collection of abilities.

 

For the ability to look at a person and deduce things about a person like Sherlock Holmes, how would you construct that as a super-skill?

[JasonPacker]

Would it be enough to combine Absolute Range Sense, Absolute Timing and Eidetic Memory (perhaps with Bump of Direction) with a high level of enhanced perception across the normal spectrum of senses, and a ridiculously high Criminology and Deduction skills?

[mallet]

Well Dark Champions has the "Deductive Observation" super skill which is quite close to what you are looking for, but only works against people. 

 

Another way to build it, that would cover people and locations (crime scenes) would be with Clairsentience with the "retrocognition only" limitation and tied to a Deduction roll. 

 

If you didn't want (or the GM won't allow actual powers for the ability), then I would think taking Rapid and Analyse adders on normal sight with Requires a Deduction roll, would get you close (maybe with an extra limitation on the analyse keeping it to "personal details" or something similar that the GM will allow.) I like the "Rapid" on this, because Sherlock (and other detectives that do this trick) are always shown as processing the data they see much quicker then everyone else. So, while someone else, if they spent the time (hours) studying someone could reach the same conclusions as the master detective, the master detective does it in mere seconds and the Rapid adder allows this to happen (as it really is just Penalty Skill Levels vs. the time chart for perception/reading/studying, etc... 

[Christopher]

Well Dark Champions has the "Deductive Observation" super skill which is quite close to what you are looking for, but only works against people.

It would be nice if somebody who has the book could psot that build. Might give those of us that lack the book an idea.

 

Another way to build it, that would cover people and locations (crime scenes) would be with Clairsentience with the "retrocognition only" limitation and tied to a Deduction roll.

Would have been my idea too.

 

 

The main issue is that Sherlock Scan abilities is that most GM's would have difficulty with his ability to unravel plots. To be even more precise: In his adnvetures Sherlock holme is the only thing unraveling the Story. Others might give a glue or be the persons who aquire information, but usually that is on his direct question/order from him "because he knew they would find something/had other stuff to do". He is more a plot device like the gun used to fire the shoot then something you could model a Character after.

 

Wich would make for a poor RPG storyline. So you have to tone it down anyway. It should definetely require a roll of some kind.

Or maybe it falls into the same category as langauges? Those often tend to become Plot conveniences/tools of exposition, not actuall powers you should spend points for.

[Steve]

I like the idea of using Rapid and Analyze on normal sight. The TV show "Psych" has moments like this, where Shawn Spencer just looks around a crime scene and picks up on odd items that tell him something is going on that the regular police don't notice.

[Ndreare]

Another way to build it, that would cover people and locations (crime scenes) would be with Clairsentience with the "retrocognition only" limitation and tied to a Deduction roll. ...

 

This is how i built my own super detective. Combined with a lot of skills and 5 overall skill levels it perfectly recreated the Sherlock feeling for me.

[Sketchpad]

I would build it as Rapid for Sight and Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group), Rapid, Requires A Deduction Roll.

[Steve]

All good ideas. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

Just out of curiosity, how would one quantify on a character sheet the ability to always keep stumbling upon mysterious murders wherever one goes? I guess it could be called "Murder She Wrote" syndrome. Just a campaign ground rule?

 

The Sherlock Scan abilities I was asking about are part of an amateur teenaged detective character I am trying to write up, sort of a Nancy Drew or Veronica Mars sort.

[mallet]

Just out of curiosity, how would one quantify on a character sheet the ability to always keep stumbling upon mysterious murders wherever one goes? I guess it could be called "Murder She Wrote" syndrome. Just a campaign ground rule?

 

Yeah, I think that would just count as regular role-playing adventures if you are playing a mystery/detective campaign. Just like in a superhero game the hero don't need an "ability" to always be around when a super villain hatches out a master plan. 

 

But, if you did want to solidify something like that I don't think it would be an ability, but more of a Complication. Maybe as a twist on Social Complication like "Always in the wrong place at the wrong time" or as a twist on the Hunted Complication, but rather then being Hunted by someone or a group, if the frequency roll is made, the character stumbles across a murder that session. 

 

Something like that. Although, as always, I would be up to what the GM wants or would allow in his/her game. 

 

[Hyper-Man]

complication and perk - reputation as famous crime solver. that's how the CBS series Elementary seems to handle it.

[Ndreare]

All good ideas. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

Just out of curiosity, how would one quantify on a character sheet the ability to always keep stumbling upon mysterious murders wherever one goes? I guess it could be called "Murder She Wrote" syndrome. Just a campaign ground rule?

The Sherlock Scan abilities I was asking about are part of an amateur teenaged detective character I am trying to write up, sort of a Nancy Drew or Veronica Mars sort.

For Sherlock it made sense he was after all a consulting detective called in my the police.

 

However my thero for all the dozens of imitations (Murder She Wrote, Rosemary & Thyme, Phyche, Monk and every other one) is...

 

25: Psych Lim; Must Commit Murders and Frame Unlikely Suspects.

[Christopher]

All good ideas. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

Just out of curiosity, how would one quantify on a character sheet the ability to always keep stumbling upon mysterious murders wherever one goes? I guess it could be called "Murder She Wrote" syndrome. Just a campaign ground rule?

It's not an ability if it does not give you an advantage. Having an adventure is not generallly considered an "Advantageous" Situation, but actual the normal state in any RPG.

 

As others wrote:

This is either the Campaign Premise - Characters in Detecive Adventures need to have something to Detectviate. As Heroic Characters need Princesses to Rescue and Dungeons to storm. Or Superheroes need villains to foil.

Or it's a Complication. The Game Mechanics of Hunted could be adapted - it's stuff that the character stumbles over or that stumbles over the Character.

 

The bigger question might be: What forces the character into solving those cases, that no other character would normally care much for? If you have a Complciation it is not a Detecive Adventure Campaign. And not a "Law & Order, Capital Crimes, Superhuman Deparment" Campaign either.

A complication must be something only those who have it suffer under.  And most superheroes would investigate a murder at least somewhat.

[Steve]

I discovered that there is a limited form of Discriminatory as part of Normal Sight, so buying Discriminatory and Analyze with Normal Sight and adding RSR (Deduction) and Concentration (1/2 DCV) gets me to Sherlock levels of ability at identifying clues for only a few points. Adding Rapid (x10) for Normal Sight is only three points on top of that, but i'm not sure what to name the Rapid ability (A Quick Look?).

 

A grand total of nine points for the abilities.

[L. Marcus]

With A Glance.

[Christopher]

I discovered that there is a limited form of Discriminatory as part of Normal Sight, so buying Discriminatory and Analyze with Normal Sight and adding RSR (Deduction) and Concentration (1/2 DCV) gets me to Sherlock levels of ability at identifying clues for only a few points. Adding Rapid (x10) for Normal Sight is only three points on top of that, but i'm not sure what to name the Rapid ability (A Quick Look?).

 

A grand total of nine points for the abilities.

As I personally picture the four levels of Discrimination Ability:

No Discriminatory: You see a humanoid shaped blob. Or maybe not evne that much, jsut a blob. You could see that the blob of a dog looks smaler then one of a human, but you could not say wich human or dog that is. Or even wheter it is a dog, a cat or a small panther.

Limited Discriminatory: Normal human sight. The one thing you cannot automatically penetrate are the question wich of two identical twins you have in front of you. You also have to make skill Rolls to penetrate Disguises

Full Discriminatory: In my book you easily can say wich twin you have in front of you, based on miniscule details. You are not certain wich details however. You can automatically figure out Disguises, but Shape Shift Still fools you.

Analyzing. You can not only tell the twins appart, you can say by what miniscule identifiers you did it. You are still fooled by Shape Shift, however (you need a Sense not covered by Sense Affecting Powers to counter sense Affecting Powers; Sense Modifiers are not enough).

[Lucius]

He is more a plot device like the gun used to fire the shoot then something you could model a Character after.

And yet we do write up guns as Powers (specifically Ranged Killing Attack) and also the Skills to use them.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says I should be writing up monsters for the game I'm supposedly running tomorrow.

[Hyper-Man]

I think a great deal of thought needs to go into how much of a Sherlock-like character's abilities are enhanced senses vs. skill with interpreting the data collected.

 

Take a look what my versions of some famous superheroes can do sense wise.

 

Flash

Seeing At Super Speed: (Total: 11 Active Cost, 9 Real Cost) Rapid ( x100) with Normal Sight (6 Active Points) (Real Cost: 5) PLUS Analyze with Normal Sight (5 Active Points) (Real Cost: 4)

and from a VPP slot:

Superspeed Mind: Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Rapid: x10, Costs Endurance Only To Activate (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Time Modifiers (-1/2), Blackout (-1/2), No Range (-1/2) Real Cost: 16

 

Superman

+3 PER with all Sense Groups (9 Active Points)

X-Ray Vision: (Total: 35 Active Cost, 17 Real Cost) Penetrative with Sight Group (15 Active Points); Concentration (0 DCV; Only to Activate; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 7) PLUS Discriminatory with Sight Group - Can identify, distinguish, and analyze an object if the character makes a PER Roll. (10 Active Points); Linked (Penetrative; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5) PLUS Analyze with Sight Group - Can determine an even greater range of information, with greater precision, than can a Sense with Discriminatory (10 Active Points); Linked (Penetrative; -1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5)

Notes: From 6e1 page 209: The Discriminatory effect provided by the Sight Group is not the full Discriminatory obtained by buying that Sense Modifier, but rather an effect of somewhat cruder degree. For example, a character can tell two people apart based on their visual appearance, but cannot always determine a person's ethnicity or religion through Sight. Characters can make Normal Sight (or the entire Sight Sense Group) fully Discriminatory by paying the usual cost.

 

Both also have up to +5 Overall Levels via a VPP slot described as a Super Speed sfx that could be used to enhance Perception Rolls.

[Christopher]

And yet we do write up guns as Powers (specifically Ranged Killing Attack) and also the Skills to use them.

The bullet did not hit him because the Attacker had Skill Levels and Surprised his target enough to prevent raising it's DCV/OCV penalties too high. And it did not kill the Target because it did enough Body (based on hit Location).

It hit and killed the target because the story says it hit an hit the target. Two very different things

 

Also quite different from the Attack Roll and Damage Roll you make against player characters.

 

If it did not hit, this was either one miss-shot out of a Series of shoots (from wich at least one hit; making this one evidence).

Or the target had a deadly accident while trying to not get hit/from being shocked.

Or this is only about an atempeted murder/first murder in a known row with unknown attacker and finding him/her/it before striking again (in a way a hit is guaranteed) is the adventure, isntead of  more classical murder adventure.

 

In the same way Sherlock solves cases because the story says so. Becaue it gives him always the right information and the right conclusions (and sometimes the right minor power/skill) at the right time.

 

It's the "Not everything that works in Fiction works in a RPG"/"Not everything survives medium transition" problem all over again.

But I am not certain if you were being Ironic there, so I better stop rambling.

[NuSoardGraphite]

The "sherlock scan" as seen in the films is simply a function of holmes heightened deduction skill and legendary, unparalelled perception.

 

I would say that this ability gives holmes a talent which are bought as overall skill levels (and yes, useable in combat) with a requires skill roll against his deduction skill. he would also have a high number of analyze skills (analyze fighting style, analyze motive, analyze surroundings etc) that he continually does and with an eidetic memory, is able to keep track of everything at once and position himself to take advantage of the detaile he picked up in any given situation. (Lots of skill levels, and maybe some luck thrown in for good measure)

[Beast]

Sherlock Percieves: 

Retrocognitive Clairsentience (Sight, Smell/Taste And Touch Groups), +5 to PER Roll, Discriminatory (70 Active Points); Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (0 DCV; Character is totally unaware of nearby events; -1 1/2), Retrocognition Only (-1), Limited Power Power loses about half of its effectiveness (what can be sensed through close examination; -1), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Only to Activate, -3/4), Limited Range (8m; -1/4)

 

add in editic memory

[Hyper-Man]

I find it interesting that I've never seen most of these abilities attributed to Batman even though he is often described as the worlds greatest detective in the DCU (basically a version of Holmes for a superhero universe).

[NuSoardGraphite]

I find it interesting that I've never seen most of these abilities attributed to Batman even though he is often described as the worlds greatest detective in the DCU (basically a version of Holmes for a superhero universe).

I think Batman would absolutely have this kind of ability.  The way I suggested (Overall Skill Levels RSR-Deduction skill) would work just fine for him.

[bret]

I believe Batman has done this sort of thing, it is just he doesn't tend to share the information. Part of that whole not-a-team-player thing he has going.

[phoenix240]

All good ideas. Thank you to everyone who has contributed.

 

Just out of curiosity, how would one quantify on a character sheet the ability to always keep stumbling upon mysterious murders wherever one goes? I guess it could be called "Murder She Wrote" syndrome. Just a campaign ground rule?

 

The Sherlock Scan abilities I was asking about are part of an amateur teenaged detective character I am trying to write up, sort of a Nancy Drew or Veronica Mars sort.

 

It might just a facet the game if the mysteries are the primary emphasis of the game. It could be Disad/complication though if, for example, people to tend to shy away from the character and view their appearance with dread, maybe even suspect them of causing the death. Reputation: Angel of Death, 8- extreme or something similar. If the mysteries hamper the character in some way like informants and other useful NPC turn up dead, etc, it might be some form of Unluck manifestation or a odd "Hunted: Killer of the weeks, mildly punish (he's not trying to kill the character but is just causing him grief and probably not intentionally).

[Sean Waters]

I'd suggest it would be a combination of 'Detect Plot' and 'Martial Throw GM's Creativity'. That should do it.