Discussion of Hero System's "Health" on rpg.net

[Cantriped]

Tis hard to say. I don't really think the Hero System especially needs a new full edition (I consider CC/FHC a half-edition step from 6th edition). I think the toolbox is fairly complete and functional as it is (whichever one you choose to use, 6e, CC, or FHC). Although there are certainly things I wish were better about it, such as wishing the rules for Foci and Objects were more consistent, or wishing natural gravity and light were less painful to emulate.

 

What I really want to see published are a series of setting and scenario supplements for ​Champions and/or Fantasy Hero Complete​. Supplements complete enough so as to actually be 'plug-and-play', requiring no toolkitting at all. For which such a series of supplements needs to include a sufficiently detailed setting, plenty of pregenerated assets (including both player and non-player characters), and play-tested scenarios balanced around the assumptions of those pregenerated assets.

The issues of course being that such a project is simply a vast amount of work, and the pool of people here willing to do that much work is extremely limited. This is compounded by the fact that nobody here on the forums can agree as to how such a project should be done (or even which 'edition' to do it for), so none of us are really willing to cooperate long enough to see such a project through to completion.

[Ninja-Bear]

I know this question has been asked before in other threads, but what would bring you into a new edition of Hero? What needs to happen to make you say "Wow! I want to play this!" if a new edition of the game were made?

I finally updated to CC-no new editions!

[zslane]

Here we go again... has it been six months already?

[Joe Walsh]

Here we go again... has it been six months already?

 

The cycle's getting faster. If we don't watch it, some day the question will be brought up before it was the previous time, and we'll enter the Hero System Version singularity. 

[Cantriped]

Nah, just three. But I'm not sure if a (hopefully) short digression into the subject counts against the unwritten six-month cooldown on threads dedicated to the subject of the unicorn that is the Hero System 7th Edition.

[Joe Walsh]

One thing that I think would benefit Hero, no matter the version, would be more support for this philosophy (quoted from Champions 2e):

 

Not every hero will have the same powers as every other hero. One character may want to group his powers so that only one is available at a time, another might want his powers to be totally invisible. The various way that powers can be changed or grouped are called Power Modifiers. Effective beginning characters can easily be built without any of the Power Modifiers. Experienced players, though, may wish to use the Power Modifiers to more exactly represent their character conceptions in game terms.

 

[Emphasis mine.]

 

Do your Characteristics, your Skills, Talents, and Perks, and pick a few Powers. Maybe add a Complication or three. Done! And with no hard math.

 

Support for that sort of play would be very good, IMO. It would give people a nice entry point at near-zero cost.

[Nolgroth]

All I will add is that I am done buying rules and unsupported settings. As much as it pains me, I will probably have to find a publisher that supports the core rules books and setting books with adventures and localized regional gazetteers. I have enough rules and more than enough settings.

 

I once thought I could "hobby publish" those kinds of gaming materials. I have since concluded that I am not suited for that task.

[Christopher R Taylor]

It is a significant investment of time and energy, and it is not easy.  I wish I could go faster, I'd like to put out a major book every quarter but one a year is the best I can do, and sometimes slower.  I've been trying to keep up a schedule of supplement/adventure/supplement so there's plenty of content.  The big overall scheme is to create a deep setting with all the GM needs, each book building on the previous one until a full setting is out.  Then, once that's done I can start alternating adventures with area information ("Gazeteers" as you put it).  I want to leave most of the world somewhat vague and open so GMs can fill in the blanks as they desire, though.

[Nolgroth]

It is a significant investment of time and energy, and it is not easy.  I wish I could go faster, I'd like to put out a major book every quarter but one a year is the best I can do, and sometimes slower.  I've been trying to keep up a schedule of supplement/adventure/supplement so there's plenty of content.  The big overall scheme is to create a deep setting with all the GM needs, each book building on the previous one until a full setting is out.  Then, once that's done I can start alternating adventures with area information ("Gazeteers" as you put it).  I want to leave most of the world somewhat vague and open so GMs can fill in the blanks as they desire, though.

 

Part of the problem is that an individual either has to contract out some parts of the project (for me, artwork) or assume all of the roles of production (author, artist, cartographer, layout, etc.). That is pretty exhausting work. In my fondest imagination, I still have this little impulse towards trying to publish as an individual. I just know that the times I've tried have been unsuccessful due to too many things that distract and detract.

 

But enough about bitching. I know where I stand, where I will spend my money, and sadly, the inability of Hero Games to field the kind of products that I, as the consumer, will dump money into. It feels kinda final but empty when I put into words.

[bigdamnhero]

As I understand it, the (non-Champions) campaign/adventure materials that Hero has done haven't sold for squat. We can (and have) talk about why that is, but if we as the core fanbase aren't going to support them, it's not really fair to slam the company for not doing more of them.

 

I'm not trying to "supplement shame" anyone in particular - personally I think I've bought every Heroic book Hero has ever put out, and I know I'm not the only one. But clearly there just aren't enough of us.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I think if there was an official Champions setting put out, and the materials published were keyed to that setting, it could be helpful.  Plus, you know, some degree of advertising and publicity, maybe a bit of effort to sell their product.  Promotions at game stores, some social media presence, that kind of thing.

[Joe Walsh]

Social media engagement would be good. Google+ hosts a lot of gamers, but I don't see a HERO Games presence at all.

 

BTW, I like what Waakshani's doing over in his Champions free roaming thread at RPG.net.  He's developing a supers school setting, complete with a nice and logical progression from simple powers to more complex ones for the students as they learn to control and develop their powers over the years. Not only does he have a lot of fun and interesting ideas, the approach could be a very good teaching tool for HERO.

[Chris Goodwin]

Social media engagement would be good. Google+ hosts a lot of gamers, but I don't see a HERO Games presence at all.

 

 

Right here:  https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111522756181830562958

[Joe Walsh]

 

Right here:  https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111522756181830562958

 

Ah! How did I miss that? Thanks!

[bigdamnhero]

I think if there was an official Champions setting put out, and the materials published were keyed to that setting, it could be helpful.

Um...I think it's called The Champions Universe...?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sure, there's a sort of vague book about it, but not a real setting GMs can grab and dive into.  It needs intro adventures, a book about how to run games in it, maps, support, etc.  Not just "here's a history and some dudes"

 

Its the difference between an encyclopedia entry on WW2 America and the Golden Age Champions book.

[bigdamnhero]

It needs intro adventures...

Champions Battlegrounds, Villainy Amok...

 

...a book about how to run games in it...

Champions, Champions Universe, Villainy Amok, Mystic World...

 

maps...

Millennium City, Vibora Bay, Stronghold, Hidden Lands, Champions Battlegrounds...

 

support, etc.

UNTIL, VIPER, DEMON, News Of The World, multiple villain/organization books...

 

I'm not trying to be augmentative. I actually agree with you that settings are Hero's weak spot, and the CU in particular suffers a bit from trying to be all things to all gamers. But I think it's important we distinguish between what Hero has/hasn't done vs what we think they could do different/better.

 

Edit: I also agree that "ready to run right out of the box" is not exactly something Hero is known for...

[Nolgroth]

There may not be enough Hero players to support the game. That doesn't negate my previous statement. If anything, it validates it. What hope do we have that Hero is going to once again rise from the ashes? The last time it happened, there was a young and vibrant fanbase. I have only seen that fanbase get older, shrink in size, and become more obsessed with political ideology than actual gaming. That doesn't inspire hope.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Exactly, the scattering of stuff out there isn't really a setting so much as a bunch of products.  They are bits that could be, if produced  and presented properly but as they are now, they are just books on a shelf.  What isn't being done is a ready to play superhero setting.  Champions books don't give you a Champions Universe campaign, they give you the rules to build characters for superheroes in the Hero system, for example.

[Chris Goodwin]

There may not be enough Hero players to support the game. 

 

There are hundreds of thousands of RPG players out there.  We can turn them into Hero players.  It would be a lot easier if we had support from Hero Games, is all.

[dsatow]

We need someone like the Amazing Alexander to promote HERO (see http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/amazing-alexander/n9457?snl=1) 

 

The Amazing Hero Game System.  Hear the reviews:

 

"I loved it.  It was much better than D&D.  I'm going to play it again and again." - Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson

"I loved it.  It was much better than D&D.  I'm going to play it again and again." - Steve Jackson

"I loved it.  It was much better than D&D.  I'm going to play it again and again." - Monte Cook

"I loved it.  It was much better than D&D.  I'm going to play it again and again." - Jeff Dee

"I loved it.  It was much better than D&D.  I'm going to play it again and again." - Ed Greenwood

"I would tweak growth a little more ..." - Steve Long

[Nolgroth]

There are hundreds of thousands of RPG players out there. We can turn them into Hero players. It would be a lot easier if we had support from Hero Games, is all.

I appreciate the enthusiasm but I don't share it. Give me a couple of weeks. I might change my mind.

[phoenix240]

Exactly, the scattering of stuff out there isn't really a setting so much as a bunch of products.  They are bits that could be, if produced  and presented properly but as they are now, they are just books on a shelf.  What isn't being done is a ready to play superhero setting.  Champions books don't give you a Champions Universe campaign, they give you the rules to build characters for superheroes in the Hero system, for example.

 

If the earlier supplements aren't it, what are your proposing? 

[Cantriped]

I really like the extant Champions Campaign Setting. I (ignorantly) consider it to have comperable depth to the DC or Marvel settings. It is very much 'everything we can think of plus the kitchen-sink'-ish... but than again, so are the DC or Marvel settings, Golarion (the Pathfinder Campaign Setting), and even Earth AU (the Strike Force campaign setting) to some degree. The Champions Campaign Setting has things I don't like of course (such as everything directly related to Shadow Destroyer), but it also has a whole lot of things that I really do like (such as Cateran, Captain Chronos, Dr. Destroyer, Mechanon, and Takofanes; or Millennium city and Vibora Bay; or DEMON and VIPER).

 

Although I admit that while I have all the History and Character Sheets I need; my collection of materials could really use more 6e/CC friendly maps and scenarios.

[Christopher R Taylor]

If the earlier supplements aren't it, what are your proposing? 

 

 

its not too obscure.  Imagine the Champions Universe as a comic book universe.  Champions Comics has been out for 70 years putting out stories.  How would you build the rolep laying game version of this, how would you approach the product line and releases?  What products would you put out?  How would you brand it?