Discussion of Hero System's "Health" on rpg.net

[Christopher R Taylor]

It is why successful restaurants have smaller menus. It is a current problem with a few fast food chains at the moment.

 

I think this is why 5 guys does so well.  You could put their entire menu on a napkin.

 

However, if you go to a really high end restaurant, the menu can sometimes be quite large, and you can ask the chef to make anything, and they can do it.  So if you want fast food gaming, sure you can get that.  But if you want quality gaming that lets you do what you want?  Different story.

[Wardsman]

I think this is why 5 guys does so well.  You could put their entire menu on a napkin.

 

However, if you go to a really high end restaurant, the menu can sometimes be quite large, and you can ask the chef to make anything, and they can do it.  So if you want fast food gaming, sure you can get that.  But if you want quality gaming that lets you do what you want?  Different story.

 

But even most high resturants (definition varies) have an easy selection menu.

It may be appetizers which in some restaurants can be a meal or specials of the day.

 

I not saying strip the power out. I'm say create and introductory versions that doesn't overwhelm

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sure, but I do agree we need a simple, fun interface with Hero.

 

Allegedly we're working on that, but i've seen zero output from anyone except myself and BigDamnHero

[phoenix240]

But even most high restaurants (definition varies) have an easy selection menu.

It may be appetizers which in some restaurants can be a meal or specials of the day.

 

I not saying strip the power out. I'm say create and introductory versions that doesn't overwhelm

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

 

I think I would have. I found 5th to be a great improvement over 4th. Maybe I'm a freak.

 

That said, an entry level book perhaps attached to a setting isn't a terrible idea. 

[phoenix240]

Looks like this thread and the rpg.net thread came back to life at about the same time. 

[phoenix240]

Looks like this thread and the rpg.net thread came back to life at about the same time. 

[Tasha]

Looks like this thread and the rpg.net thread came back to life at about the same time. 

This thread has been on a slow burn for months. It flares up from time to time, but stays at the slow burn level.

[Lucius]

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

Probably, but I'm just one person

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And a palindromedary

[Doc Democracy]

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

 

 

 

Probably not.  I picked up the black and white, lettraset appearing version of 2nd edition when I was 14.  I think it sat around for almost 3 years before I tried running it for friends because "it was too complicated".  That was a pretty slim volume.  I think I might have taken a look at 5th edition and run a mile and never come back.  And I am the most likely of my group to be HERO friendly...

 

It IS a barrier.

 

However, I have successfully run HERO for groups of 10, 11 and 12 year olds who have picked it up and run with it.  If you are introduced by someone who knows then that barrier disappears.  Our problem is that, for a social activity, gaming groups are incredibly unsocial - they stick together, meet in private and rarely propagate between each other.  Inviting new gamers is always a challenge as gamers are incredibly strange folk, even to ourselves...

 

Teenagers are when you capture people, that unique confluence of curiosity, obsessive behaviour and the time to indulge both...

 

Doc

[Joe Walsh]

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

 

I started with 2nd. I was...what, 14 at the time? It didn't seem complicated at all to me. Reading it after running and playing D&D, AD&D, Boot Hill, Gamma World, Traveller, etc...it just blew my mind. The idea that I could make any sort of character I wanted was just fantastic.  (That 2e didn't have all the tools you needed to do that wasn't immediately apparent to me...)

 

1e/2e/3e were all the same game, just with bugfixes and layout changes. They really shouldn't be called different editions. 2e was just Revised Champions, and I recall "3e" being called the 'final edition' of Champions in AC when it was first released. Champions II and III, and Espionage! and Justice, Inc. and all the others, were where the real development of the game system was going on.

 

Anyway, when 4e came out all those years later, it wasn't as big a deal for me. I was in college and there was nothing complicated to me about 4e. It was just Hero System Consolidated.

 

But even back in the 2e days when I was 14, 4e or 5e wouldn't have bothered me. Heck, I'd practically memorized AD&D's PHB and DMG by that time.

 

Now, 5eR might have given me pause. It probably would have seemed excessive.

 

And 6e? Well, that would have seemed crazy. I'd have been wowed by the full-color interior with super-thick pages, but I'd have looked at those two volumes and wondered why they needed to be that big. And there would be no way I could bring them to school in my backpack. Not if I wanted to bring actual school books back and forth as well!

 

But Champions Complete? No problem!  It's practically the Hero System Rulesbook, Heavily Revised Edition, by comparison.

[Cantriped]

I started out with the Bullet-Resistant 5th Edition Hard-cover, given to me by a family friend. Compared to my stack of 3rd edition D&D books it didn't seem that bad. I skipped straight from that to Champions and Fantasy Hero Complete, which I just plain love. My wife started with the 4th edition BBB, and skipped straight to CC/FHC because that is what I was running at the time. The conversion was a little harder for her. She doesn't like the Multiple Attack rules for example, or how Healing got both more expensive and less usable.

[Ninja-Bear]

I started with 4th. Got very familiar with 5thr. And now I'm using Champions Complete. Besides the issue I have with how to missile Deflection now in CC, im happy with the upgrade.

[Tech]

I started with 1st edition Champions (the book with color pictures on front & back). It's far simpler than 5th or 6th edition, but it's that 56 pages of awesomeness that had me hooked. Even the Champions Complete clocks in at 240 pages, but still smaller in size than 6e Vol 1 or 2. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what our campaign uses (a mixture of 1-6th ed., mostly 4th& 5th. Don't ask me to break it down in %).

 

The simplicity of those 56 pages, and the Hero System made it sell well, with good reviews. I still remember the storekeeper raving about it. I think including optional rules in the book instead of it being a different book just pumps up the page count. For an example picking Champions Complete, let's assume 120 pages of it was optional rules, the person picking up the book still sees a thick rulebook of 240 pages. I agree with lots of what was said. I also know that prior to the 5th & 6th edition, the Hero System was thought a goner but that changed. I think it can again.

[Sketchpad]

Started with 2nd Edition, and have played it through FRED. While I snagged the 6th ed books, my group prefers other systems to play these days. Why? To some extent, it's how the rules have evolved. There's some room for streamlining and adaption to modern ideas. I think it's also the book design. While 6th ed was a step in the right direction, there needs to be a bit more pop to the books to draw attention. Most game books these days are one part rules, one part art book in many respects. 

[Cantriped]

Art sells RPGs. It is an inconvenient truth.

[Chris Goodwin]

I not saying strip the power out. I'm say create and introductory versions that doesn't overwhelm

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

 

Given that I'm namechecked in 6th edition Probably.  Assuming that my current self handed my copies over to 16 year old me through the awesome power of time travel, that is.  

[Nolgroth]

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

 

Absolutely. It is my current self that, even with a pretty comprehensive understanding of the rules, is turned off by both the complexity of complicated write-ups and the never-ending bickering over closet case situations here on the boards. I suppose if I had unlimited amounts of free time and a gaming group, I might have different opinions.

 

Right now, to me, Fuzion is too complex. 

[Scott Ruggels2]

I may stick to 4th Ed. simply because it's what I own and have to hand  I am going to try and introduce it to a few folks via Fantasy Hero ( and the Fantasy Hero Primer), to a group that is toptally infamioliar with it soon and see how that goes.

[Nolgroth]

I may stick to 4th Ed. simply because it's what I own and have to hand  I am going to try and introduce it to a few folks via Fantasy Hero ( and the Fantasy Hero Primer), to a group that is toptally infamioliar with it soon and see how that goes.

 

While my fondest Hero memories come with Fifth Edition: Revised, I salute this idea. Hero Fourth was a really good iteration of the game.

[Scott Ruggels2]

While my fondest Hero memories come with Fifth Edition: Revised, I salute this idea. Hero Fourth was a really good iteration of the game.

Well my fondest is probably around Champions 2 and Champions 3 as a player. As a GM it was a couple of FH Campaigns in  4e that were my fondest as a GM.

[Marcus Impudite]

If you started with 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition, would your younger self try 5th or 6th edition if handed to them?

My younger, 4th Ed self would have no problem embracing 5th (and in fact, didn't). 6th not so much.

[Armory]

My younger, 4th Ed self would have no problem embracing 5th (and in fact, didn't). 6th not so much.

This has been my experience as well.  We've played since 2nd Ed., and the only new release I've not embraced was 6th.  I bought it (of course!) but we're still playing 5th and loving it.

[Sketchpad]

I know this question has been asked before in other threads, but what would bring you into a new edition of Hero? What needs to happen to make you say "Wow! I want to play this!" if a new edition of the game were made?

[Doc Democracy]

I will buy a new edition if it says HERO 7th Edition.....

 

:-)

 

For a wider audience, I think it needs an identity.

[Joe Walsh]

Big Blue Book, with errata incorporated, and with a few, small-but-logical changes incorporated (such as those generally agreed upon in the recent thread about 6th edition changes to incorporate in previous editions).

 

Back to basics.