Political Discussion Thread (With Rules)

[unclevlad]

Well, The Donald, as usual, ignored advice and declared his candidacy for 2024.

 

It is quite possible that this is the best news the Democrats could get.  I'm still worried that his personal charisma will be a problem, but he could well be highly disruptive to the entire Republican Party.

[Hermit]

Benedict Donald is running again. Dammit.

 

I don't think this is the best news the democrats can get. I really don't. This guy is poison and yet still has far too large a chunk of the American population following him like cultists. Only this time he's got 'his people' planted deeper than before, and the Supreme Court has at least one judge whose wife is so deep into supporting the Jan 6 riots its scary.  Every time in 2016, folks were like 'oh now Trump goes down' or 'Trump will never win the primaries... and every time, he didn't. And he won the primary, and the democrats patted themselves on the back because how could ANYONE vote for this clown.

 

And they did vote for him. And the Electoral College got him the win. I know Desantis is smarter than Trump. It's not about smart. It's about worship of a man who is the golden calf incarnate. Everytime the liberals assume Trump is done, they end up paying a price and Trump is still untouched. He lost the presidency, and we thought 'thank god that's over' only for Jan 6 sedition to start up over the great lie, people died, and hey.. .Trump's still free from bars for his sedition, and 61% of registered Republicans still believe the votes were rigged or 'may have been'. They're not going to change their mind in 2 years. And Trump will use his run in 2024 to say any legal action brought against him is just a political stunt.

 

And now he's running again, and so many voices are clapping with glee like 'oh well, stick a fork in him , he's done THIS time'

 

I am so tired of watching that mindset bite us in the ass.

[Iuz the Evil]

8 minutes ago, Hermit said:

Benedict Donald is running again. Dammit.

 

I don't think this is the best news the democrats can get. I really don't. This guy is poison and yet still has far too large a chunk of the American population following him like cultists. Only this time he's got 'his people' planted deeper than before, and the Supreme Court has at least one judge whose wife is so deep into supporting the Jan 6 riots its scary.  Every time in 2016, folks were like 'oh now Trump goes down' or 'Trump will never win the primaries... and every time, he didn't. And he won the primary, and the democrats patted themselves on the back because how could ANYONE vote for this clown.

 

And they did vote for him. And the Electoral College got him the win. I know Desantis is smarter than Trump. It's not about smart. It's about worship of a man who is the golden calf incarnate. Everytime the liberals assume Trump is done, they end up paying a price and Trump is still untouched. He lost the presidency, and we thought 'thank god that's over' only for Jan 6 sedition to start up over the great lie, people died, and hey.. .Trump's still free from bars for his sedition, and 61% of registered Republicans still believe the votes were rigged or 'may have been'. They're not going to change their mind in 2 years. And Trump will use his run in 2024 to say any legal action brought against him is just a political stunt.

 

And now he's running again, and so many voices are clapping with glee like 'oh well, stick a fork in him , he's done THIS time'

 

I am so tired of watching that mindset bite us in the ass.

I think we need to start wanting the opposition party to, well, be better. Run better candidates. Not Walker, Oz, Trump. More moderation, less cult like behavior.

 

 While I’m wishing, why don’t we move towards civility while we are at it? And hey, what’s the lottery at now?

 

 Anyway, I too want to never see him run for office again. Trump is, exactly as you say, poison. He’s absolutely willing to put himself before the very institutions he swears to uphold. We need less of that in public service.

[unclevlad]

It really does depend.  In the wake of last week's failures, Trump has lost quite a bit of support from several Rep politicians (who did back him) and from parts of the conservative media.  He's already been bashing DeSantis, trying to crush him...but that might be his McCarthy vs. the Army moment, since DeSantis' star is rising so strongly.  (That's scary enough.)

 

Worst case for the Republicans is an extended primary battle where Trump eventually loses...because in the process, he'll alienate a LOT of people, and he'll likely divide both Republican caucuses in Congress.  CAN he elucidate real policy?  The election steal's a badly failed message;  it plays to the hard-core base, but only the base.  (Altho apparently he didn't bring it up.  He offered the usual empty statements.)  Others can quite probably just push election 'reform' moving forward, rather than continuing to dwell in the past.  The point about division in Congress will hold if he emerges out of a nasty primary battle, and I think the Democrats will have a massive amount of fresh ammo, from the primaries, to use.  

 

Worst case for us is, if criticisms of Trump quiet down over the next year or so, and he polls decently well in the advance polling.  One thing we can assume...if Trump rallies to be the consensus candidate, the Republican turnout will be ginormous.  

 

Best case for the Republican Party is probably Trump getting major pushback early and often, and pulling out, the earlier, the better.  They can focus on themes, rather than the Trumpist cult of personality.

[Lord Liaden]

I believe Trump declaring he'll run is actually best-case. This is going to pull the divided GOP even farther apart, and make them eat each other before the next election. Also, associating the Republican Party with the specter of a return of Trump to the White House will galvanize Democrat support like almost nothing else.

[Pariah]

Best case scenario: The former President's age and general health catch up with him and pull him from the race before he can do any more damage to the country.

 

YMMV, of course.

[Lord Liaden]

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

Worst case for us is, if criticisms of Trump quiet down over the next year or so, and he polls decently well in the advance polling.  One thing we can assume...if Trump rallies to be the consensus candidate, the Republican turnout will be ginormous.  

 

 

Nothing about Trump will quiet down. The man's incapable of shutting up and not drawing attention to himself. With serious rivalry for candidacy in 2024, he'll only become louder and more unhinged.

 

What I hear from polls is that many Republicans are turning away from Trump. Aside from the deluded, everyone knows he lost in 2020. He lost the House of Representatives in 2018. He lost the Senate in 2020. He cost the GOP in 2022. Not all of this is Trump's fault directly, but that's the way many voters perceive it, and how his critics are framing it. Trump's precious image as a winner is seriously tarnished.

[Pariah]

Warning: Rant Mode ON

 

Spoiler

An open letter to the former President

 

Dear Mr. Trump,

 

Go to Hell.

Go directly to Hell.

Do not pass 'Go'.

Do not collect $200.

 

Sincerely, 

Every American who suffered under your regime the first time around.

 

/Rant

[unclevlad]

...so you're saying TRUMP GO HOME!!! there?

[Cygnia]

Yikers!

 

[DShomshak]

EDIYT: Oops, BNakagawa already posted this information. Never mind.

 

Update: On All Things Considered last night, the possibility was raised that the missile that struck a "grain processing facility" in Poland might have been a Ukrainian antimissile, launched in response to the Russian barrage, that went off course.

 

I just hope the investigation is thorough, honest and reported accurately. If it does turn out to be a Ukrainian antimissile, that's not a disaster for Ukraine: Acknowledgement of the accident, apology, and reparation to the families of the victims, shows the government is honest and worthy of trust. Commitment to truth, even when it isn't good for you in the short term, shows strength and confidence to those who are strong and confident; Russian bluster and lies shows weakness and cowardice, that only looks strong to those who are themselves weak and cowardly.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Old Man]

Ukraine wouldn't have been launching anything if Russia wasn't lobbing missiles into their cities.

[Pariah]

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

...so you're saying TRUMP GO HOME!!! there?

 

 

--

 

1 hour ago, DShomshak said:

Acknowledgement of the accident, apology, and reparation to the families of the victims, shows the government is honest and worthy of trust. Commitment to truth, even when it isn't good for you in the short term, shows strength and confidence to those who are strong and confident; Russian bluster and lies shows weakness and cowardice, that only looks strong to those who are themselves weak and cowardly.

 

Dean Shomshak

 

If there is one single reason the former President cannot be allowed to retake office, this is it.

[Old Man]

3 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

 

If there is one single reason the former President cannot be allowed to retake office, this is it.

 

 

I’d have gone with the theft of all the classified documents. Or maybe the treasonous coup attempt. Admittedly it’s hard to pick just one reason when there are so… damn… many. 

[unclevlad]

This is amazing, but I dunno if it can clear the House in time.  From NYT:

 

Quote

 The Senate on Wednesday took a crucial step toward passing landmark legislation to provide federal protections for same-sex marriages, as 12 Republicans joined Democrats to advance the Respect for Marriage Act, putting it on track to become law in the twilight of the Democratic-held Congress.

 

The MIND BOGGLING part is 12 Republicans crossed the aisle.  Apparently this was a test vote, NOT a vote to pass, but still...even going this far would've seemed impossible 10 days ago.

[Lord Liaden]

Right after a midterm election, the people who lost have nothing more to lose. The people who won election or reelection have their seats guaranteed, and figure the public will forget whatever they do now before the next one. So they have a grace period to vote as they want.

[unclevlad]

1 hour ago, Lord Liaden said:

Right after a midterm election, the people who lost have nothing more to lose. The people who won election or reelection have their seats guaranteed, and figure the public will forget whatever they do now before the next one. So they have a grace period to vote as they want.

 

I don't think this adds up.  This was a Senate vote.  While it could include Senators who didn't run...there are only 5 Republican Senators in that boat.  Lost in the primary?  Another possibility.  But there are several that appear to not be up for election at...Ernst in Iowa, Tilley in NC are two.  It did include the anti-Trumpers like Romney, Murkowski, and Collins, but still, it does show a fracture line on an issue that's SURE to enrage the the evangelical faction.

[Pariah]

3 hours ago, unclevlad said:

 It did include the anti-Trumpers like Romney, Murkowski, and Collins, but still, it does show a fracture line on an issue that's SURE to enrage the the evangelical faction.

 

Good.

[DShomshak]

They have at least two years until their next primary, and in American politics two years is forever.

 

I suppose it's remotely possible that some of the Pub senators genuinely think it's the right thing to do. Or at least that, culturally, the ship sailed so long ago that there is nothing to gain by trying to reverse it and much to lose. It's irrelevant to whatever they really care about.

 

Dean Shomshak

[Pariah]

As the old saying goes, "Winners never quit and quitters never win, but people who never win and never quit are idiots. "

 

Election denier Kari Lake refuses to concede Arizona governor race she lost

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, Pariah said:

As the old saying goes, "Winners never quit and quitters never win, but people who never win and never quit are idiots. "

 

Election denier Kari Lake refuses to concede Arizona governor race she lost

 

I fervently hope this turns out to be, if you will, the dying wail for her political career.  Sounds like she's a one-trick pony, and hers is a loser that, hopefully, will only continue to get worse.  

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

She'll be Tr*mp's veep.

[Lord Liaden]

I saw a video of a public protest over the election by Lake supporters. Less than twenty people showed up.

[Pariah]

I confess that I don't know much about Ms. Lake, but she sounds like the answer to a question nobody asked.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

1 hour ago, Pariah said:

I confess that I don't know much about Ms. Lake, but she sounds like the answer to a question nobody asked.

 

Arrogant...obnoxious...evasive....superficial....election denier. Basically the female Trump.