Villain power opinion

[Tech]

In The Great Supervillain Contest, a supervillain called Annihilator has a HKA. I'm not sure if it should be physical or energy in nature. The pertinent part reads:

 

"The Annihilator's unique body chemistry enables him to absorb energy and release it in the form of a blast that destroys the molecular bonds of metallic substances. (etc etc) He can also "channel a potent killing attack to his fists."

 

To me, I'm thinking this sounds like disintegration. Would you put this power as a Physical or Energy attack? Off-hand, I've gone with energy but I wanted your opinions.

[steriaca]

27 minutes ago, Tech said:

In The Great Supervillain Contest, a supervillain called Annihilator has a HKA. I'm not sure if it should be physical or energy in nature. The pertinent part reads:

 

"The Annihilator's unique body chemistry enables him to absorb energy and release it in the form of a blast that destroys the molecular bonds of metallic substances. (etc etc) He can also "channel a potent killing attack to his fists."

 

To me, I'm thinking this sounds like disintegration. Would you put this power as a Physical or Energy attack? Off-hand, I've gone with energy but I wanted your opinions.

Energy. I would also call disintegration attacks at least Penatrating, at most No Normal Defence attacks which Does Body, but that is just me.

[Tech]

It's just written as a KA, but a big one (after adding in Str).

[Lord Liaden]

Well, if the Special Effect of a particular Power construct isn't immediately apparent, I tend to look at what happens along its whole path from how it's initiated at the source, to its end result at the target. For example, a particle beam could be visualized like a stream of subatomic "bullets," but its effect is to penetrate matter at the atomic level; hence I classify it as "energy." OTOH a sonic attack impacts the target with much larger molecules of air, so I consider that "physical." I have a character with a couple of telekinetic attacks based on psionic energy. One seizes and crushes the target, but it's being compressed by the energy directly; but another attack telekinetically accelerates his fist for a more damaging blow, with the fist doing the actual damage, so I call that physical.

 

In the case of Annihilator, it sounds in both cases like his energy is what's actually damaging the target, so I'd rule that both of them work against Energy Defense.

[archer]

11 hours ago, Tech said:

It's just written as a KA, but a big one (after adding in Str).

 

In earlier edition write-ups, I've defaulted to "if STR can be added to the HKA, I count it as physical" whenever I was in doubt.

[Lord Liaden]

How would you interpret light sabers?

[archer]

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

How would you interpret light sabers?

 

Light sabers weren't written up in earlier edition HERO products which tended to be very short on details about what a character's backstory was and how his powers worked.

 

I would interpret them as as energy weapons since they've been introduced as such in fiction and so I have no doubts about the nature of the damage they produce.

 

 

 

[Christopher]

On 10/24/2018 at 7:01 PM, Tech said:

It's just written as a KA, but a big one (after adding in Str).

That is not a disqualifier for energy damage. But it is a strong indication towards physical.

 

16 hours ago, archer said:

 

Light sabers weren't written up in earlier edition HERO products which tended to be very short on details about what a character's backstory was and how his powers worked.

 

I would interpret them as as energy weapons since they've been introduced as such in fiction and so I have no doubts about the nature of the damage they produce.

At least with 6E the rules became clear:

"Some examples of HKA include claws,
fangs, bladed weapons such as knives, and laser
swords. Some examples of RKA include bullets,
arrows, lasers, flamethrowers, and throwing
knives. A character must defne his KA as physical
or energy damage (i.e., whether it works against
Resistant PD or Resistant ED) when he buys it,
and cannot change this thereafer. Killing Attack
costs END to use."

 

On 10/24/2018 at 6:22 PM, Tech said:

"The Annihilator's unique body chemistry enables him to absorb energy and release it in the form of a blast that destroys the molecular bonds of metallic substances. (etc etc) He can also "channel a potent killing attack to his fists." 

I only ever heard of channeling energy or emotions (or emotional energy I guess). So that is a strong indication towards Energy.

Of course it might also be his only non-Energy Defense Attack. A few enemies have very skewed defenses (like 10 more vs energy damage), so against those one attack that throws them off balance helps.

[Dr. MID-Nite]

I've always taken the HKA on Annihilator as an energy based attack. He channels lethal power through his fists as he strikes you.

[Lord Liaden]

Is it really worth stressing over? Either way will work just as well in play.

[Greywind]

Depends on the receiver and whether they can handle it as physical or energy.

[Christopher]

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Is it really worth stressing over? Either way will work just as well in play.

Yes:

15 hours ago, Christopher said:

Of course it might also be his only non-Energy Defense Attack. A few enemies have very skewed defenses (like 10 more vs energy damage), so against those one attack that throws them off balance helps. 

 

[Lord Liaden]

But different characters will be built with more PD or ED, so someone will benefit or suffer whichever you choose. Unless you as GM want to protect or hose a particular PC, it would all come down to chance anyway.

[archer]

10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Is it really worth stressing over? Either way will work just as well in play.

 

The only time it might make a difference that I can see is if there are multiple GM's for that universe.

 

I used to have a character with a Force Wall shtick and one multipower slot was a Wall which was transparent to energy attacks. It was useful for crowd control (whether civilians or minions) and for containing Blaster characters who had a low STR score.

 

It would be irritating to face multiple villains whose powers change significantly (in how they interacted with my shtick) depending on who is GMing that story arc.

[phydaux]

On 10/25/2018 at 2:20 AM, Lord Liaden said:

How would you interpret light sabers?

 

Energy RKA No Range

[phydaux]

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

But different characters will be built with more PD or ED, so someone will benefit or suffer whichever you choose. Unless you as GM want to protect or hose a particular PC, it would all come down to chance anyway.

 

It has been literally decades since I've seen a PC that didn't have PD=ED.

[Lord Liaden]

"Shrug" I've seen plenty. Usually built around a particular concept. Bricks often have more PD, Energy Projectors more ED.

[Christopher]

10 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

"Shrug" I've seen plenty. Usually built around a particular concept. Bricks often have more PD, Energy Projectors more ED. 

I once built an "anti-projector" hero. Significatnly higher ED then PD, as Most projectors tend to use ED attacks.

[BoloOfEarth]

I'll admit that as GM about half the time my NPC villains have PD = ED to make it easier to run combat.  But I do have a fair number leaning one way or the other. 

 

For example, of the nine New Aquans (home-brewed villain group):

• Higher PD than ED:  Croc (30 vs. 20), Crustacean (45 vs. 25), and Delphinidae (25 vs. 20)
• Higher ED than PD:  Electrophoridae (25 vs. 20) and Lumen (30 vs. 20)
• Equal PD and ED:  Biohazard, Riptide, Tidal Jet, and Nereid

As to the OP's question, I'd call it an Energy attack even though it's an HKA.  As to how it's written up, the module is from the bad ol' days of 3rd Edition when most powers were pretty straightforward, with little or no Advantages or Limitations.  Personally, I'd write it up as a Penetrating RKA, no Range.  Kinda silly to make it an HKA when he only has 10 STR to add to it.

[Tech]

It's unusual in our campaign that people have the same PD & ED.

 

Btw, Bolo, I thought that as well... until I really looked at his powers. He also has Density Increase, increasing his Str up to 30, so he actually ended up with a 6d6 HKA.

 

Thanks all. I was guessing the dastardly villain's attack was energy but wanted to get opinions on it.

[BoloOfEarth]

4 minutes ago, Tech said:

Btw, Bolo, I thought that as well... until I really looked at his powers. He also has Density Increase, increasing his Str up to 30, so he actually ended up with a 6d6 HKA.

 

Doh!  I didn't notice that.  Yeah, you're right.  Though he'll burn 13 END per use at that level.   But if his Absorption goes toward END (as I expect it would), that can mitigate the high END cost of his HKA.

 

However, if updating to 6th edition, the END cost would be much lower. 

[Ninja-Bear]

I’m going to suggest that his HKA is physical. The same as  when a Force Field is energized it’s still physical.