Paralyzing Toxin

[Amorkca]

Hello all,

 

I am creating a hero who has a Paralyzing Poison/venom/toxin attack.  I'd like to see it work as something that fades over time, so that it would hold them for 5 minutes (or longer) as if frozen.

 

  I've modelled it two ways thus far:

 

1) Drain Dex ; once their Dex is down they have no conrol of their muscles so they can't move.

2) Entangle (Mental but I don't want to use this construct) where they could potentially break the Entangle by using their Con, instead of Str.  Not sure how to model this with HD.

 

I envision it as a small power mostly for use against agents, hoodlums, etc. to slow them down or take them out of the fight quickly.  Sorta like Spiderman's webs that only last an hour.

 

In HD I have it like this currently: Paralyzing Toxin 2:  Entangle 1d6, 1 PD/1 ED, Alternate Combat Value (uses OCV against DMCV; +1/4), Works Against EGO, Not STR (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (20 Active Points)

 

This is for 6th Edition; Champions Complete

 

Any suggestions??

 

Thanks

 

 

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

The big problem you're going to run into is that "Target cannot move for five minutes" basically means "Target loses" and HERO System will make you pay an appropriate amount for such an overwhelming effect. 

 

The problem you'll run into with a Drain DEX is that even at 0 DEX you still get a 9- roll to see if you can act.  Debilitating, but not totally paralyzing. 

A CON Entangle would work, though has the problem that with enough DEF it can be inescapable for some targets unless you allow Haymakering the CON damage roll (which opens a different can of worms). 

Mind Control and Transform would be the other obvious options, and both should work sorta-well. 

[Grailknight]

Here's an option.  You can play around with it in HD to better suit your needs.

 

Drain SPD 0 1/2d6, Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1), Damage Over Time, Target's defenses only apply once, Lock out (cannot be applied multiple times) (17-32 damage increments, damage occurs every Segment, +5) (35 Active Points)

 

Assuming a 4 SPD  or less target, this will put them down 6.4 SPD over the course of 32 segments. The SPD change rules will allow them 2 or 3 actions on average before they go down. Once they do, it will take 3 1/2 minutes to get back to 1 SPD and recover the rest of their SPD at 1 per two minutes. Power Defense lessens the effect but merely reduces the total Drained by the total of the target's Power Defense.

 

This is and should be a Stop sign power so GM approval is required. 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Grailknight
Math error correction

[Doc Democracy]

6 hours ago, Amorkca said:

I envision it as a small power mostly for use against agents, hoodlums, etc. to slow them down or take them out of the fight quickly.  Sorta like Spiderman's webs that only last an hour.

 

It is this that may sell it to a GM.  How do you build it so that it cannot be used against the big guys.  I like powers that clear out the small fry.

You can see that Grailknight's power would hit anyone with 6 SPD and no power defence.

 

You might limit it such that it does not affect anyone with SPD greater than 4 (or perhaps 3) depending on the campaign. Or the GM lets you know that EVERY villain will have at least 5 power defence. 

 

🙂

Doc

[steriaca]

Another option can be NND Mind Control Based On Con, No Range (to activate), One Command ("Do Not Move A Voluntary Mussel"). This is a more immediate effect, but operates on the same rules as mental mind control.

[dsatow]

I would probably due as a cumulative mind control along with something else.  This probably isn't what the OP wants which is an all or nothing attack and as Gnome points out HERO makes you pay through the nose for something that as well as most GMs tend to hate those kind of things.

[Oruncrest]

Steve Long wrote about Entangle variations in an issue of Digital HERO. One of the possible variants concerned using CON as the breakout characteristic instead of STR. HERO was still in 5th ed., but it should still work for 6th. Here's an example:

 

Quote

Paralyzing Toxin 3:  Entangle 3d6, 4 PD/4 ED, Works Against CON, Not STR (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (61 Active Points)

 

Another possibility is to use Change Environment (Stunning) with the long lasting adder:

 

Quote

Paralyzing Toxin 4: Change Environment: Stunning; Long-Lasting (5 minutes), -4 to CON Roll (48 Active Points)

 

[LoneWolf]

Take a normal entangle and put the +1 advantage Takes no damage from attack and add in a custom +1/4 modifier Works against CON not STR.  Cost wise it work out to be the same cost as a mental entangle, but fits what you want better.  It still uses the characters OCV vs DCV, and the only way to get out is to use your CON to break out.  At 2d6 DEF 2 it will not be all that hard for a super hero to break out,  but it will take an agent a lot longer to get out. 

 

If this is something that is delivered by a bite or other attack link it to that attack.

 

1d6 DEF 1 is not going to hold anyone for long.  A normal person on the street will be out in a turn or less.

[Tech]

On 4/26/2020 at 2:41 PM, LoneWolf said:

Take a normal entangle and put the +1 advantage Takes no damage from attack and add in a custom +1/4 modifier Works against CON not STR.  Cost wise it work out to be the same cost as a mental entangle, but fits what you want better.  It still uses the characters OCV vs DCV, and the only way to get out is to use your CON to break out.  At 2d6 DEF 2 it will not be all that hard for a super hero to break out,  but it will take an agent a lot longer to get out. 

 

If this is something that is delivered by a bite or other attack link it to that attack.

 

1d6 DEF 1 is not going to hold anyone for long.  A normal person on the street will be out in a turn or less.

 

Why not just make it Entangle 3 Def, 2 Body, takes no dmg from attacks, vs CON not Str, Not vs a CON of 20+, only lasts 5 minutes? Agents with a 13 or 15 CON will find it difficult to break out of and the 'Not vs CON of 20+' generally keeps heroes safe from it.

[LoneWolf]

How much Def the entangle has depends on how tough the agents are.  My suggestion was based on the idea of around a 13 CON, and super hero’s basically being immune.  Depending on the campaign a super hero with an 18 CON are often not unusual.  At 3 DEF It may take a super hero with an 18 CON a few phases to break out. 

[Tech]

14 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

How much Def the entangle has depends on how tough the agents are.  My suggestion was based on the idea of around a 13 CON, and super hero’s basically being immune.  Depending on the campaign a super hero with an 18 CON are often not unusual.  At 3 DEF It may take a super hero with an 18 CON a few phases to break out. 

You're correct; campaigns are vastly different as are the agents. I myself have a hero with a 13 CON. I think Amorkca may need to talk to the GM to decide how to correctly emulate this for that particular campaign.

[Amorkca]

Paralyzing Toxin 2:  Entangle 2d6, 2 PD/2 ED, Works Against CON, Not STR (+1/4), Takes No Damage From Attacks All Attacks (+1/2) (35 Active Points); Time Limit (1 Hour; -3/4)

 

This is what I went with in the long run; its useful for slowing down people but not stopping them outright... And it wears off after an hour, like Spiderman's webbing used to.

 

[LoneWolf]

You probably want to bump up the advantage to the full +1.  At the +1/2 level you can still target the entangle by taking a -3 OCV.  At the +1 level you cannot attack the entangle and the only way to escape it is to breakout by using STR or in this case CON.  This level also requires you to have a reasonably common way to remove the entangle.  The book give an example of an antidote for paralysis poison. 

[unclevlad]

3 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

You probably want to bump up the advantage to the full +1.  At the +1/2 level you can still target the entangle by taking a -3 OCV.  At the +1 level you cannot attack the entangle and the only way to escape it is to breakout by using STR or in this case CON.  This level also requires you to have a reasonably common way to remove the entangle.  The book give an example of an antidote for paralysis poison. 

 

Mental Entangle is a net +3/4, tho, as well...EGO instead of STR, ACV (OMCV vs. DMCV), and Takes No Damage (+1/4 level).  That's making it immune to all physical and energy attacks, because it's off in its own separate domain.  So there's a pretty notable conflict between p. 219, talking about Takes No Damage, and p. 217 talking about Mental Paralysis.

 

Yeah, one can argue that the Mental Entangle forces what might be an unusual stat purchase...lotta people skip both Ego and OMCV, keeping them both on the cheap/defensive end of the scale only.  But, hey...MCSLs with 1 attack are only 1 point for +1 OCV, so you can do it on the cheap if you like.  

[Gnome BODY (important!)]

29 minutes ago, unclevlad said:

 

Mental Entangle is a net +3/4, tho, as well...EGO instead of STR, ACV (OMCV vs. DMCV), and Takes No Damage (+1/4 level).  That's making it immune to all physical and energy attacks, because it's off in its own separate domain.  So there's a pretty notable conflict between p. 219, talking about Takes No Damage, and p. 217 talking about Mental Paralysis.

 

Yeah, one can argue that the Mental Entangle forces what might be an unusual stat purchase...lotta people skip both Ego and OMCV, keeping them both on the cheap/defensive end of the scale only.  But, hey...MCSLs with 1 attack are only 1 point for +1 OCV, so you can do it on the cheap if you like.  

My copy of 6e1 says to use the +3/4 level of Takes No Damage From Attacks and +1/2 of other advantages to make Mental Paralysis.  Are different 6e sources saying different things? 

[unclevlad]

Argh.  No, you are right.  Misread it on the puter, and HD Has no mental entangle per se. So it looked right at +1/4....but it should be more.

[LoneWolf]

Takes no damage from the attack still allows you to target the entangle by taking a -3 OCV.  So at the +1/2 level someone attacking the target does not normally damage the entangle, but if the attacker wants they can take a -3 OCV and target the entangle.  When this happens the attack works like a normal entangle.  Mental Paralysis takes damage from mental blast and some other mental attacks.  The +1 advantage states that it cannot be attack by any means and the only way to break out is with the breakout roll of the relevant stat.