Christopher

It works what works. As for untrained skills: Persuasion does belong to the "Everyman Skills" list. And it is on just about any Everyman Skill list for every campaign. So everyone should get 8- at least. ee 6E1 60. Of course you can buff that to INT Roll -3. But I thought I mention it in case you just missed that part. It happens with a 2 book base ruleset

I used the Terminology that was used in OpenLegend and that properly described the concept. Comptuergames are a art and media form as books and P&P RPG's. MMO's included. If they have a good term, I will not hesitate to use it.

It is also something that nobody here said. Unless you seriously missinterpreted what I wrote here:

Unless Pathfinder totally reworked the Combat System, I can see how extra actions would be Unbalancing. But that is just a implementation msitake, not a general issues with the idea. I also do not see the similarity to Comptuergames, but to cartoon shows. Consider all these marvel fights: Avengers vs Loki (any version) Avengers vs Graviton (2010) Any X-men fight against Magneto Any X-Men fight against Apokalypse or any of his 4 Horsemen Those are clearly cases were a single villain had to challenge a whole group. and extra actions ia pretty decent way to go about it. Asuming of course it is not D&D full attack actions.

Now OpenLegends would be a good learning case for Hero. In part becaue the Combat Resolution is similar. In part because give or take, any HERO Power can be mapped to OpenLegends. It also only has a fraction of the Chracter creation time cost, so it is good enough for one-offs. That also makes the rules easier to learn. It is also very close to MMO and Computer RPG combat resolution, so this is another shortening of hte learning curve. At the same time it does not make Hero redundant, because open Legends lacks the granularity that only a deep point Buy system can provide. Especially that last part is really important if it is supposed to be a Demo for the Hero System, not OpenLegends. The idea that attribute caps increase over Levels is a vector of progression that Hero seems to lack natively. It mgiht be worth exploring. And I actualyl saw someone mention it just recently. It deals with Boss Monsters by just giving them more Actions and Attributes. And boss monsters are a problem that HERO GMs often face. It might be possible to build a Character in OpenLegends first, then port it to HERO. Would help getting a concept roughly balanced The no failure thing is intersting, because just recently I had a situation were 3 characters failed 3 chance to notice a detail. A detail that was crucial for story progression. "Success with a Twist" would have easily solved that.

OpenLegends is a OpenSource RPG System. I stumbeled over this only last year. But reading it I think there is some interesting ideas in this RPG System. Both for itself, and for similar mechanics in Hero. Indeed OpenLegends might even be a good learning/demo RPG Systems for Hero. A less granular way to learn a point-buy System. You can find the full rules here: https://openlegendrpg.com/core-rules/00-introduction But I will try to give a bit of an overview and talk about the particulary interesting parts. It it'score it is a cross-setting, point buy RPG system that has systems for social and physical combat. Powers, Talents and Co: Damaging powers come directly from Attributes. You can use more or less any Attribute to cause combat damage. Banes are a set of common ... Status Effects I would say in lack of another word. You can explicitly attack to inflict a bane. But you can also cause a bane as a side effect of a exceptional attack roll. Boons (the good side of Banes) includes stuff like Animation/Summon Creature (Summon), Aura (Damage Shield), Barrier, Aid and even Movement like Teleport. Also a Taunt Option Banes and Boons are unlocked via high Attributes and generally they are unlocked several ways (Agility via Sneak attack and Entropy via Necromatic Power can be used to inflict the "Death" bane) Feats have an odd niche. They have outright powers (Alternate Form is Multiform, Attack Redirection is Deflection, Battle Trance is various D&D Class Abilites), Advantages (Area Manipulation is Basically Selective, Combat Retaliation is a form of Trigger), and some Stuff not in Hero (like Attribtue substitution) Perks incldue stuff like Ageless/Disease Immunity, Attactive/Extraordinary Presence/Famous Bloodline. Mostly they map to Hero Talents Flaws are kind of like Complications, except the player actively invokes them. Usually to get Legend Points. Give or take, any Hero power and Complication can be mapped to a OpenRPG Mechanic Granularity: Now the one thing that OpenLegends lacks compard to Hero is granularity. If your attack vector calls for using Entropy, you will get Boons that do not fit. If you got Entropy on a high level you get the "Animate" Boon, even if your concept did not call for "summon undead". Ther is no way to "sell it back" or Limit Entropy. You can freely choose not to pick it, but you get nothing back. In a similar direction, you can spend 1 or 2 Feat points on one "Alternate Form". There is no way to limit the power or add advantages (like Multiple Forms or Focus). However there is a limited set of "Weapons and Implements", wich kin Character building is a whole lot easier. 10 Basic Attributes (Physical, Mental, and Social Ones) 8 Special Attribtues (think Magic or Superpowers). 4 Derived Attributes (HP and 3 Defenses) 3 Feat Points Up to 2 Perks and Flaws Noting down the Boons and Banes might well be the longest part of Character Creation Wealth and Equipment: This system reminds me of equipment pools, just way simpler You have a wealth Score from 0 to 9. Every item has a wealth score. It defines what stuff you can get for free (no issues), with limited issues (can not do on that level again the next 2 weeks) and big issue (burning 1 wealth) Progression: You start with a Stat Cap of 5 for Attibutes and 40 points to spend on them Every XP you get +1 Feat and +3 Attribute points Every 3 XP you get a Level, wich can increase your Attribute Cap and your Wealth The GM can always award Wealth, Perks and Flaws as part of game progression Combat Resolution The same combination of half and Full actions we got in Hero, D&D and Shadowrun, etc. Boss NPC just get extra actions. Called "Boss Actions" On top of increased general Attributes Damage is attack roll vs Static Defense (think D&D). However, all effects are generally short lived. Most HP damage regeenrates in 10 minutes rest. And most banes have multiple resist rolls and are removed on first success There is something called "Lethal Damage" for lasting damage - stuff like landmines wich would have no effect with the 10 minutes rest rule. Failure is not an option: Remember those times you needed a Character to succeed with a Roll to progress the story, but the Dice were just cursed? Or those times a Character failed, despite it being a core stat and a easy challenge? This does not happen in OpenLegends. If you do not make a roll the results are usually: Success, with a twist Failure, but the Story continues The one big downside is: Nobody else get's to retry. If the halfling rogue fails to open the lock, the Barbarian does not get to try using Strenght until after the GM has interpreted the result (and that one has been handeled). This rule is usually waived for combat. In large parts to speed up resolution.

What Durkon is saying there reminds me of something from Diskworld: "I did not got Vampirized. You got Weatherwaxed!"

Thanks. But I got nothing again, so it goes to DT or whoever has something I guess.

One rules system is stumbeled over is "Open Legends", wich is a OpenSoruce RPG. I noticed the similarity to HERO instantly. It might even be a suiteable demo/learning tool for the HERO system. It does have a whole lot less granularity then hero. I really need to finish writing about it in the General Rolepalying Forum so you can see what I mean.

That is a problem with changing the Caps - soft or hard - regardless how you do it. It does not mater if it is "Racial Templates affect NCM", Shadowruns Species/Stat table, Warhammer Fantasies Starting Stat Table or the +2/-2 Modifiers in D&D. So tell that to Mechani Cat, it is his goal.

And in this case NCM pevents buying certain broken combinations of stats, like 30 DEX + 60 STR. Same way a hard cap below 30/60 would do. NCM is just a soft cap - nothing more, nothing less. Campaign caps are just hard caps - nothing more, nothing less

Please read it slowly so you actually understand it this time: a) I picked the values so we have anything to talk about. "Something times something" is just not a good basis for a rules discussion b) I picked them as upper bound. Wich is something I actually wrote: Gnome BODY got that: c) I had no other values to go by. Wich is something I actually wrote: d) I said it is the GM prerogative to waive any rule - including the one that Object Creation can not make weapons - if he chooses so. Here, let me repeat it for a 3rd time: Indeed I defended that with 1 minute duration, Object Creation and Weapon Creation in any build would propably be okay anyway: Suprisingly that applies to wich value weapons have to begin with. So your argument that I am some rules fanatic does not exist outside your head. Please keep it in there. Or get it out there, now that I have debunked it 3 times.

I finished Titans on Netflix. Dark, but that is well in line with the original origins of the Comic. Unfortunately this is another show with a dark/cliffhanger ending. The list of shows I am waiting for continuation keeps increasing. At least Star Trek Discovery restarts tomorrow. At least that show knows how to givee a satisfying conclusion and still have you want more.

I only learned of this recently, but it makes perfect sense now. "I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies: 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things." Douglas Adams And I think we can expand that to any change, including laws, the emergence of supers, etc.

What am I looking at?

I do not know how much back porting there will be. I mean after the costume they gave Gravitar, we have no hopes they even try to stay with the source material.

How was that in question??? Both limit how high you can buy a stat, just with different caps and different mechanics. I do consider two different flavors of Icecream still icecream. Please stop with your feingned "I do not understand" thing. I am not falling for it.

Ah, I found the rules. APG I 16 has this: " Some campaigns, such as many Fantasy Hero and Star Hero games, feature multiple sentient species or races. Some GMs like to vary the Characteristic Maxima for different races. Tis allows some races to buy Characteristics to a higher limit without doubling the cost, or lowers the doubling threshold to make it harder for some races to increase their Characteristics. For example, maybe dwarves can have CON up to 23 and elves can have INT up to 23 before the doubling takes effect, but elves can only have CON 16 before doubling sets in. Since there’s no guarantee how many points each character will spend on each Characteristic, there’s no way to create a uniformly balanced method of applying this sort of change. Many GMs try to “balance” the effect by imposing an equal amount of “upgrades” and “downgrades” to each race, or by applying downgrades in some other proportion to upgrades. For example, if elves can have up to INT 23 without doubling (a possible savings of 3 points), then perhaps they can only have STR 17 before doubling (a possible extra cost of 3 points) " But basically it is what we discussed already.

Except: a) Flight and Blast as not normal Characteristics/Powers. So your example does not work. b) The discussion is about allowing this to explicitly exceed NCM. c) There is a lot of balance issues comming from this Well, being OP is a important part of my Charater. So I guess you should allow me to ignore the maximum amount of points as well as Attribute and defense caps. You are free to bend the rules however you like. YOu can indeed ignore the optional rule of "Normal Characteristics Maxima" entirely. But then you have to deal with all the fallout from that too. Fun facts: On CD's they applied the 8/14 encoding. This almost doubeled the amount of CD bits you need for one byte of data. However it also allowed about 3 times as many bits to be put on the CD. For a net increase of almost 50%. Going from Sata 1.5 Gbit/s to Sata 3.0 Gbit/s required applying hte 8b/10b encoding. Literally added +20% overhead, but allowed the doubling of the speed. With Limitations, it is the Net result that maters. "A Limitation that doesn’t limit the character isn’t worth any bonus!" We can not just ignore the Net effect.

One way would be to say "Racial Templates (6E1 37) affect the Normal Characteristics Maxima". Mind you, those are not entirely usefull things. Stuff like " -2 Dwarven legs: Running -2m" would be a negative modifier on NCM. I honestly already asumed it would work that way, but I can not find a reference for it right now.

How does that say those stats are inmutable? Stop making a guideline I pulled out of the books into a "You are a fanatic" argument. I do not like to argue against peoples imagination. It is tiresome.

That is not how Limitations work. Half the effectiveness is less then -1. If you apply a -1 Limiation "only for Presence Attack Dice" to PRE, people will find a way to make 3 times as many PRE-attacks with those extra dice. When in doubt, pick the limitation value lower. It is way, way easier to increase it later (freeing up Character points), then it is to lower it (wich would drain Character Points).

So now we got half the parts for a von-Neuman machine.

I never said that. Please quote where you think I said that.