Duke Bushido

2 hours ago, Spence said:

 

You are actually mixing two completely different things here.

Valid point.  In my defense, I've had a couple of decades of exposure to the "you can make any character and any world you want" marketing pitch for HERO; it kind of stuck that I should stay generic there...     But yes; you make a valid point.

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The problem is that while Hero has a setting called Champions, they stopped.  No that is not right.  They only partially supported it. 

It's also why I can't really be the guy to produce an adventure: the bit in the back of BBB (which the "Mob Rule" comments the other day demonstrated I don't remember for _squat_ these days) and the Hudson City / Dark Champions stuff were about all the "official" world there was, and they really didn't overlap a lot in the official material.  Someone mentioned San Angelo a page or two back, and honestly, _that_ setting was better-supported than anything that wasn't Dark Champions back then.  And really, it's about all I know of the "official" setting.  At this point, I've been running in my own universe so long that when 5e stuff suddenly appeared, I just didn't need it.  There was a lot of it, yes, but it was just _years_ too late to be of any use to me.  The original Guardians have all retired; the 4e Champions are all dead at the hands of the Silver Shrike (except for Defender, who is a wheelchair bound research scientist at the premiere technology company of my universe....

Mechanon got destroyed early on; Dr. Destroyer is dead by his own hand ( caught up in his own nuclear device plot)-- the list goes on and on.  The only thing the 5e re-hashing of thirty-and-more year old properties did for me was a trip down memory lane.

You are _absolutely_ right; it was not supported, but really, it _couldn't_ be, because there was nothing new, and there was absolutely no way to know if any of these characters or setting still had value.  The "new" stuff was a couple of settings (which would have been a great place to start printing new adventures with new characters and new villains).  The most interesting "new" thing was the talking gorilla super-scientist, but I can't use that either because I already _have_ one!  It's a _staple_ of comics, so we tossed one in a few years ago and he still pops up now and again.  Though honestly, he's insanely popular with all of my groups, but more than him they love his research assistant.  Go figure...

Anyway, before this goes more astray:  A new location:  Check.  We got Millennium City.  New characters: Check.  We got Kinetic.  New villains:  uhm....   _some_....?  I think?  Okay, some.  Right there: that's where a couple of adventures start brining things to life.  But it didn't happen.  Instead, we got the history of the universe from the big bang to how it all ends at some point where you want to start creating your adventures.

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  It is why I so dislike the move to POD casts.  I just don't have any time to participate and I can't really listen to them as a back ground to work.

Oh man do I hear you there!

Though honestly, I wish I were more tech-savvy.  If I could write a bit of software that would edit out the filler words "errr...  hum...  uh....  like, .....  yeah; oh yeah... yeah..." and the long dead pauses, not only could I make enough money to hire "paid pros" to create adventures, I could listen to four hours of podcast in roughly eighteen minutes.

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No Mega-Villains. 

Fine by me.  All the "official" universe ones were dealt with in my universe a generation ago anyway.

2 hours ago, assault said:

 

Out of curiosity, why shouldn't it be an end of the world crisis? If anything, they are easier to play and run.

 

Are you worried about the PCs failing?

I can't answer for Spence, but I _can_ tell you why I agree with him:

It's asking for a _lot_ of commitment to a game world that, for the new player, isn't even a tangible thing yet.  They've made no friends, enemies, or connections, or tied themselves to it in any way, yet they are supposed to feel stirred to save their friends, family, community, and world from certain doom at the hands of what'd-you-say-his-name-was-again?   It's a bit much as a first step.

Historically, they didn't. 

They've got the records to back that claim up.  For reasons I do t understand personally, pre-made villain books _do_ sell (seriously: that seemed really backwards to me for the longest time). 

The problem is that _time has passed_.  The fans are no longer young people with lots of time on their hands and the energy to do it all from scratch once a week or even once a month in some cases. 

I say with complete honesty that I - and most of the GMs I knew back then- were of the "I don't want your canned settings and canned adventures" stripe:  I made everything myself, and loved it 

I'm fifty nine years old with two school-aged kids still at home, a job that eats a minimum of seventy hours a week... 

Time has passed, and the times have changed in the passing. 

The pre-packaged adventure task is even more daunting for -  well, I was going to say "universal system," but even if we stick with just "superheroes," it's pretty difficult.  

You say "let's play D&D," and everyone knows more or less what to expect.  Let's play Traveller or Kult or that Gothic space marines thing- everyone knows what to expect. 

"let's play superheroes," especially at this point in time, means a hundred different settings and tropes to a hundred different groups. 

Honestly, a writer will either _have_ to craft a whole new world from scratch or learn one of the published ones by heart, both of which have major downsides. 

So at this point looking for "pro stuff" is pointless from one perspective (though, as others above, I would like to point out that there are many 'paid pros' on this board) because short of volunteer everything, you are asking someone(s) to spend time learning or building a backdrop, then creating or learning NPCs and villains and writing an adventure that _might_ ring all the right genre bells for one small portion of the world's smallest RPG Fandom (I don't actually know that, but I haven't met an "outsider" to our group who already knew how to play in a couple of decades), all with "paid pro" art, color, writing, etc. 

And if those are the only acceptable standards, we can give up on ever seeing anything. 

No; I do not.  Therefor I put little effort to it. 

As to your expectations, well I can't answer that. 

Applicable to both of us, though--and many others as well-- are the thoughts on insanity attributed to Einstein. 

Not really an unusual concept, but an unusual campaign.   Due to numerous weather-related cancellations one night, only my brother John and I showed up for game night.  (hilarious, since we both rode motorcycles through the storm to get there).  Jim, refusing to let the evening go to waste, announced "Screw it!  You guys make characters!"

Sure!  For what?

I don't care.  Whatever you want.

What kinds of characters, then?  Personalities?  Powers?  Maybe a hint at genre?

Tell you what:  Duke, you go into the den and surprise me.  John, you stay right here and surprise me.  I'm going to get a couple of lanterns in case the power goes out and pop a couple frozen pizzas in the oven while we still got power.  Back in a few."

Twenty minutes later, he called for our characters.  I had made an eleven-year-old Japanese-American orphan with a powerful TK and a couple of mental powers who was looking for his allegedly-kidnapped father.  John had made an adolescent dragon.

"Cool."  Said Jim.  "I can work with this."

And he did.  For about three years.  It was a total blast.  

2 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

 

It's often hard to compare point values, but when "the same benefits plus more" costs less, that's a really easy one to spot as flawed.

And yet we while away countless days and months worth of our lives arguing in pursuit of a perfect mathematical balance without the willingness to admit that it ain't gonna happen.

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

Meh, theres nothing about the rules that bleeds fun out of anything, it plays the same as first edition. 

It's not the play.  It's the learning the rules.

'Frinstance, in -- I _think_ it was '81?-- Jim peeled the cellophane of a new boxed game he bought when we showed up for Traveller night.  He read through the rules-- mostly out loud.   Three hours later, we were playing our first game.

And we were _young_ then (well, "ish").  We didn't have lots of important commitments on our time; even our jobs were those entry-level, no-responsibility, take no work home with you sort of affairs.  We had stamina, and could game all night and hit the time clock the next morning like it was nothing.

I've had the 6e PDFs for what?  Nearly two years now?

Still haven't finished them.

And check out that episode of Venture Brothers to really appreciate what it's like to be in one of the limbs....   

Fair enough. 

I do admit that I had an issue with the allegedly "pure of heart" juvenile delinquent aspect.  Though I did find the movie hillarious (not hyperbole: I nearly cried with laughter in some spots) simply because it was _such_ a departure from what I was expecting:  grim dark broody modern oh-so-conflicted whothehellcares stuff so popular these days.  It was a breath of much-needed fresh air, and it blew steady for two hours. 

Best time I've had since the first Toby Spiderman, and even that was a bit broody. 

Sweet! 

I've got to get that entered into my index.  Thanks! 

They have to:

The shock and awe of such an astounding feat of mechanical engineering in action, preparing to kick the butts, is an overwhelming Presence Attack of unimaginable proportions.  It's easily--   _easily_! - - PRE + 100.

What else makes sense? 

Wildstrike? 

Amigo, you can't go wrong with Kirby.  

(personally, I think you can:  the weird over-emphasized metallics and the fact that he seemed to think hands and feet were almost completely flat,---  The helmets.  Oh dear sweet merciful God, the helmets..... But still: he did more or less define the look of the genre for a couple of generations)

People keep saying "solid B" yet I think it's telling that I paid to take an entire family to this thing twice, a truckload of family and kids to the drive-in when it hit there, and have pre-ordered the DVD, yet have no interest at all in anything that says "Avengers" on the title.  This movie is an "A".  It's just that not being a "Marvel movie" seems to cause folks to deduct a grade.  

Just checked:

The Conan BOH is running until Monday.

10 minutes ago, Spence said:

 

And for art work.  I like Superheros that look comic'y.  Some of the 5th art is good, but the later art just doesn't say Superhero or Supervillian to me.  Especially when it went "vido game".  I am always using earlier art for my games. I even borrow M&M art.

Agreed on all counts!

1 hour ago, assault said:

 

That's what lackeys are for.

Agreed.

However, on a pirate ship, there would be perhaps a captain and one or two directly under him.  These would be the extent of the "not lackeys" on the whole boat.

12 minutes ago, Spence said:

Well SW is really easy and does "two fisted action" really well. 

 

But IMO it does not scale well.  With more experienced the PC or builds with characters more powerful than a an action hero I found the wheels began falling off and took a lot of effort GM wise to keep it going.

Interestingly enough, HERO has the same problem when going _down_ the scale.   Well, "fall apart" may be a bit severe, but it loses pretty much all the granularity.  6e's intro of CV as a Characteristic _may_ solve that going forward (certainly it's a tool to do so), but I'm willing to be the bulk of "Heroic" level characters end up within one point of each other, possibly two for outliers.

This really struck me with the weapons examples, even as far back as the original Champions book.  I figured there was something I was missing.  I invested (over time) in 3g3, More 3g3, and the massive Talisorian compendium (which is sitting on my shelf but whose name totally escapes me) just to see if it was something _I_ was doing wrong.  I've poured over the HERO-published books for examples of "real" weapons to see what I was missing.

Nope.  Unless you're invoking Sci-Fi, Supers, or Magic, the weapons pretty much boil down to "Gun," "Knife," "Big Knife" and "Bomb," doing within a couple of _pips_ of each other in damage.  It's so frustrating as make you absolutely _disgusted_ with yourself for the research into muzzle speed, projectile size and weight, etc-- just _wanting_ to give some flavor to your games, only to find out "yep.  It's a gun.  'Reckon I'll just toss it in this barrel labeled 'GUNS' and see who wants what."

We found a remarkably simple way to deal with the scaling problem, but it died with the dissolution of the original group.  By then 4e was out, and the new guys just weren't having a lot of home-brew (yet ).

10 minutes ago, Spence said:

Now I am really embarrassed.  I completely forgot. 

Don't feel bad.  I've got 5 BBB and one softcover 4e Champions (BBB: Reduced Penetration) on my shelf and I, too, had forgotten.

In our defense though, I expect it's been a _while_ since either of us has looked at the Campaigning section in that book.     (Well, except when I need to Xerox Cheshire Cat, of course.  I really like the look of 4e Cheshire Cat; I find it orders of magnitude better than the other offerings)

5 minutes ago, Scott Ruggels said:

<----<<

Did someone say Art?

 

 

Sir, those of us who can't draw say it _all the time_...  

I say we should just agree that they are equally irritating. 

2 hours ago, Trechriron10 said:

 

I assume you're answering my post...

 

I can start a new thread. But we need a handful of people to make it fly. I'll be working on some of my own worlds as well.

Sorry for the confusion. 

Ni; I was referring to Scott's offer to toss up a spare villain (unless that was you and I've gotten totally lost). 

Again: my apologies. 

Can someone clue me in as to just what Mob Rule is (other than the actual impediment to justice, if course)? 

Thanks muchly. 

That, and salt air would make it useless in short order without a couple of hours of daily maintenance. 

That's really my favorite part of these forums.  I know a lot of the conversations focus on coming to some sort of agreement on how things _should_ be, or verifying that Joe is doing things the same was Johnny, but personally, I like to see the things that are being done _differently_ from group to group.  I find it more inspirational, and I find it helps to get the wheels turning when I'm feeling stumped. 

Not sure if it's still going, but there was a recent BOH chock full of Conanly goodness. 

I reckon a new thread? 

Those who find inspiration from it could then throw their stuff up there, too.