dougmacd

On 6/29/2021 at 9:34 AM, LoneWolf said:

The physical complication could work and I had considered it.  But it seems to me that having a power that you may not be able to use in a game once in a while is worth a limitation.  My question was not how do I write up this power, but rather do other people think that a – ¼ limitation is appropriate.  What I was looking for is feed back from others on the value of the limitation.  

Costs END Only to Activate is worth -¼. What you describe sounds significantly less limiting -- especially in the context of an END Reserve which doesn't drop to zero when your character is knocked out. So no, I don't think a -¼ limitation is appropriate.  It feels like -0 at best.

You could combine the two: Costs END Only to Activate (-¼) and Turns Off When END Reserve is Empty (-0). I recognize  this does not build the power you've described, but it has the benefit that no one would bat an eye at the value of the limitations.

Doug

You could treat is as the "boot up sequence" of the otherwise low-draw systems.

I googled "medieval population density" and the first hit was on-point:

https://gamingballistic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Medieval-Demographics-Made-Easy-1.pdf

The topical bit:

Quote

Some Historical Comparisons: Medieval France tops the list, with a 14th-century density just upwards of 100 people/sq. mile. The French were blessed with an abundance of arable countryside, waiting to be farmed. Modern France has more than twice this many people. Germany, with a slightly less perfect climate and a lower percentage of arable land, averaged more like 90 people/sq. mile. Italy was similar (lots of hills and rocky areas). The British Isles were the least populous, with a little more than 40 people per square mile, most of them clustered in the southern half of the isles.

The "least populous" example above is 40 people /sq mi, so your 2.5 looks rather low.

Doug

Seems fine to me.  I'd agree with the comments that Turn Mode and Bulky make sense.  (Can the martial artist really use his/her full DCV while riding it? I can see it on a flying carpet, but less so when straddling a motorcycle.)

Doug

I assume the player is prepared for the Winter Soldier to grab the motorcycle away if it's really an accessible focus?

18 hours ago, Pariah said:

I'm not a map projection nerd, but I still feel compelled to point out that shape is not a circle.

Doug

It'd be some weird ellipse thing on a globe.

While we're in COVID isolation, my group has been using roll20.  My personal experiences:

What is needed to play is a map people can see with ways to add or hide things.

More importantly for me, a way for players to move their things on the map.  I started out using jitsi.org for group teleconferencing with a webcam pointed at the battle map, but it was simply too confusing for the players to explain to me how they wanted to move their characters and what to target. It's a lifesaver to have a shared map where they can move their characters exactly where they want and see exactly where the baddies are.

Everyone being able to ping the map is also incredibly important. With roll20, each player has an assigned color, and can click the map for a sonar-style ping.  So they can say "What do I see near [ping] that building?"

And while I mostly troll the Internet for art, it's extremely handy when the site itself provides a library of ready-to-use stuff.

A way to talk.

Not sufficient for me. We also want to see the other players. Not just for the social aspect, but also to know if the player is "at the table" when it's their turn. This doesn't need to be built in -- a separate zoom/skype/jitsi window would be fine.

A way to share pictures/art.

I don't share art at all.

And that is it.

The only reason for any of the other stuff is if your players are dishonest enough that you cannot trust them to roll their dice or keep track on of their character sheets.

I find a chat log that persist between sessions super handy. Being able to chat directly to a player instead of physically taking them aside is great.  roll20 also lets me talk directly to one player (muting me and the player I'm talking to for everyone else).

Actually, now that I think of it, I might have shared a picture or two by posting a link in chat.

Dice rollers aren't needed, but:

• The players like them, so why not? (I have three players who use the site, two players who roll on their table)
• Having visible rolls isn't to prevent cheating, but to catch honest mistakes.  At a shared table, someone will probably notice if you forgot to include a die. Or wonder why your numbers are so low.  With a dice roller, someone will notice "dude, did you forget to include the +5 damage from your feat again?"
• It's a time saver for me as the GM. If I can push a button to roll the attack/damage for the baddies, it speeds up combat so much.

To expand on the last point, I require some sort of macro system to make the button and it will do math for me.  Partly this is because I'm a programmer by profession, and partly it's because I can't use integrated characters sheets, rulebooks, etc. I'm playing D&D 4e and roll20 doesn't support it.

If we were playing 5e, all that stuff would be integrated.  When the site understands the rules and has full data on the characters from their sheet, the nitty gritty stuff is handled by the computer. Players can spend more time on tactics and roleplaying than worrying about math and resource tracking.

I still want players' character sheets, but we store them as PDFs in a google drive. If a player is absent one week, another can reference it. Also, the "crunchier" players can look them over and make optimization suggestions.  E.g., "you might want to look at magic item X".

Actually, I use google drive for a bunch of documents associated with the campaign (like handouts), but that predates our use of roll20.

TLDR: I want a shared map where players can move their things, a map that supports pings, a chat log supporting whispers, and either a macro system or rules & character sheet integration. Video & voice is nice but can be a separate application. Likewise a place for shared documents or a campaign wiki.

Doug

YMMV. This is not an endorsement for roll20, which also has a lot of behavior that's incredibly annoying.

2 hours ago, Jhamin said:

Note that if you link a power, it will *always* go off when whatever it is linked too is used, so if you link multiple things to their Str, all those things will go off with each physical attack.

Assuming the drain/aid/blast/entangle is more active points then the character's strength, apply Linked at the -¼ value: Greater power is Linked to lesser power; character can use lesser power without using greater power, but can only use greater power if he also uses lesser power, etc.

2 hours ago, Jhamin said:

On the other hand, if you care more about the effects than the Str damage, just have power like "fire-Cone kick: 10d6 AofE Cone".  When the player uses it you say its a kick, treat it like a kick, and don't worry about the Str part of it.

I'm also a fan of simplified constructs like this  🙂

Doug

1 hour ago, IndianaJoe3 said:

These all sound like they're Combined Attacks (6e2 74). Basically, they are using multiple powers, but with the same attack action on the same target.

And if the drain/aid/blast/entangle can only be used on combination with the kick/punch (not by themselves), you would actually put a Linked limitation on them, not a Trigger advantage.

Doug

Since you mentioned being worried about making it cost too much.

Just slap a limitation on the difference:

25 Natural Magic 5d6 Blast

10 Empowered Magic +3d6 Blast (8d6 Total), OAF: Amulet (-½)

In a power framework, these would go in the same slot.

Doug

I think you can keep it simple:

Cycling Blast Base Level 5d6 Blast

Cycling Blast Powering Up +3d6 Blast (8d6 total), Not on first attack of 4-attack cycle (-¼)

Cycling Blast Moar Power +3d6 Blast (11d6 total), Not on first two attacks of 4-attack cycle (-1)

Cycling Blast FULL POWER!!! +3d6 Blast (14d6 total), Only on last attack of 4-attack cycle (-1½)

Doug

Cycling Blast UNLIMITED POWER +3d6 Blast, Only vs Mace Windu (-2)

23 hours ago, Sailboat said:

Friend of mine made a character Woth the hilarious name Blue Bayou.  (As in, he just blew by you.)

 

His emblem was a palm tree bent over by strong wind,  as if he had just passed by but was already out of the frame, so to speak.

Sounds like he's a fan of the Running Guy  🙂 

https://www.writeups.org/running-guy-tick/

Doug

He's faster than ten fast men!

On 1/25/2021 at 7:15 AM, Duke Bushido said:

The original written-by-the-creator (allegedly) series featured an empire of billions, wiped out and brought to a screeching halt when a bunch of teddy bears killed a hundred or so of them.

What are you talking about?  Ewoks are the most tactically advanced fighting force in Star Wars!

https://www.wired.com/story/ewoks-star-wars-tactics-endor-moon/

Doug

Also relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAOX_CHU0JY

On 1/20/2021 at 11:42 PM, Certified said:

Players come from the North East, Central and Southern United States. I described a diner as looking like a cheap Waffle House, everyone knew exactly what I was describing. 

Hmm, I'd never heard of it (live in MA).  Looks like the closest one is in PA.

Doug

23 hours ago, archer said:

There's no obligation to register a pardon with the government or even to have a physical copy of it.

Apparently, you can revoke a pardon that hasn't been delivered. So you will want that physical copy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9IRZ9FzWEA

Doug

Today I learned from Legal Eagle...

On 1/13/2021 at 2:30 AM, cbullard said:

What do you guys think about doing a crude tractor beam as Clinging, with the Ranged advantage and the limitation that once it is activated the relative positions between the two vehicles cannot be changed.  You have to turn off the power, make the adjustments to relative positions, then turn the power back on again.  If you wanted, you could also add the limitation that it only works along one axis of the ship (directly in front/behind the ship, directly above/below, etc).

Clinging has a "range" of Self, so you can't put the Ranged advantage on it (6E1 p344).  Also, it doesn't prevent the target from moving; it just means they need to drag your mass along too. Unless your ship is a lot bigger/more massive, it may be trivial for them to pull you along with them.

Doug

8 hours ago, Ashura said:

Do you think a Strength of 9, 10 & 12 respectively could do good compared to high stats? If not, why?

If you look at the Character Ability Guidelines Table in 6E1, page 35, it will give you an idea of how many Damage Classes (DC) is reasonable for a given campaign setting.  For example, a standard superheroic game has a range of 6 to 14 DCs.

So how many DCs do you get from strength?  Look at the chapter Determining Damage in 6E2, page 96.  It's basically your strength divided by 5. So:

• strength 45 = 9d6 damage = 9 DCs
• strength 50 = 10d6 damage = 10 DCs
• strength 60 = 12d6 damage = 12 DCs

In the games I've played, player characters typically had 9 to 12 DCs, so a strength of 50 to 60 would be fine for a brick -- a character who's main shtick is a high strength.

Doug

The original question was "How do YOU handle limitations that are advantageous?"  Some people addressed it directly, while others focused on trying to model the blades specifically. As there has been increasing complaints about a lack of details from me, I WILL BRING ON THE DETAILS!

(Many apologies.)

There is no campaign or players.  This is a thought experiment. ("So I was thinking about limitations...")

I only included the power build as a way to frame the question. As such, I don't particularly care about the specific definition of Evil beyond the following scenarios:

• Character doesn't have to worry about accidentally harming an innocent (using the example of "Growing Red")
• Character doesn't have to worry about accidentally harming a teammate ("If she's mind controlled, she doesn't have to worry about using it against her allies")
• Character doesn't have to worry about the focus being used against herself. ("If the blade is stolen by her nemesis...")

Why I consider it advantageous:

• Even a character with the Psychological Complication: Protect the Innocent (VCom, Tot) will start cutting them down when Mind Controlled at EGO+30.  But you can't be forced to use this weapon that way.
• Even though it's ostensibly a universal focus, it can't be used by "bad guys" against the "good guys".
• It could almost be considered a naked Personal Immunity, Usable On Others that the owner, teammates, and all other innocents get for free.

In retrospect, maybe I should have presented it as a vote:

• The limitation "Only affects X" should be worth less, due to its advantageous uses
• The limitation "Only affects X" should be worth zero, due to its advantageous uses
• The limitation "Only affects X" is fine, but you also need to add advantages (e.g., Trigger)
• The limitation "Only affects X" should be built differently to avoid the advantageous uses (e.g., something involving Personal Immunity)
• The advantageous uses of "Only affects X" do not warrant a change to the limitation's value

However, I'm happy with this being a open-ended conversation. I've read a bunch of interesting ideas I don't I would have seen, had I presented it this way.

Doug

4 hours ago, Ashura said:

I’m creating a series of characters using the Hero system’s Champions, 6E1 & 2. I’m currently trying to create a city Strength level demon character. He can punch strong enough to create shockwaves, crater hills with sticks & dent steel with his blows. But Idk how much he lifts. What strength should I have him as?

"A city strength level demon": I have no idea what this means; is this terminology from another game? Does it mean a city-level threat (as opposed to national threat, planetary threat, etc.)?

"Punch strong enough to create shockwaves": This isn't a function of strength.  It sounds like an attack with one or more of the advantages "Area of Effect (Cone)" or "Double Knockback".

"Dent steel with his blows": Let's go with an I-beam, which has 9 PD and 8 BODY (per 2m). It takes 10 BODY to damage and 17 BODY to break. That requires a strength of 50 or more (to deal a 10d6 punch for 10 BODY on average).

It also implies strength less than 85 (deals a 17d6 punch for 17 BODY on average).  You did specify "dent", not break.

"Crater hills": Let's go with Dirt, which has 0 PD and 10 BODY (per cubic meter). I couldn't find the volume of a hill anywhere, so let's go with the volume of a 2 bedroom house (1500 sq ft x 8 ft ceilings = 12,000 cubic feet = 340 cubic meters). Typically each doubling of mass is +1 BODY; to get 340 times the mass of the initial cubic meter, you need 9 doublings (technically x512) for +9 BODY.  So 19 BODY in a single attack will crater dirt equal to the volume of a house.  That requires a strength or 95 or more (to deal 19d6 punch for 19 BODY on average).

This is in a different league of strength than denting steel.  It's stronger than Grond, the Hulk of the Champions universe! It's probably way beyond what PCs can handle -- an average punch deals 66 damage! In short, don't let your demon do this with pure strength. Make it an Area of Effect attack that encompasses a hill and deals 10 BODY on average.

So... putting all that math aside, its much safer to start with game mechanics (how many d6 does my punch do), figure out the strength from there, and then figure out the types of things they can do with that strength. A standard superheroic campaign runs 6 - 14 damage classes, equivalent to 30 - 70 strength.

I think 50 to 60 strength is fine -- pretty standard for the brick archetype -- then maybe slap Area of Effect (Cone) on it for the shockwave/hill cratering effect.  Put some limits on the AoE, though -- charges, or increased endurance cost -- as it represents a super dangerous attack that undoubtedly breaks your campaign's active point and damage class limits.

Doug

Check out the Breaking Things chapter on p171 of 6e2

Thank for the responses. I'm going to follow up on a few of them....

On 10/22/2020 at 12:05 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

Well, its obviously a limitation; it restricts the number of targets it works on, and you might really want it to work on that robot or that animated statue.  But since it is not a very great limitation (he wasn't likely to use it on anything except evil anyway) then its not a very great limitation.  I would reduce the value, but still keep some.  Depending on how likely they are to want to use it on something else or are inclined to, its a -¼ to -½ in my mind.

Yeah, the simplest approach is undoubtedly adjusting the limitation to reflect its "real" value. Say 1 in 100 targets are Evil, but Captain Goode would never knowingly use the power except on Evil targets. Is the limitation (-2) or greater becuase there are so few targets she can use it on, or is the limitation worth very little because it does not actually limit Goode's use of the power in any way?

I feel like the latter approach makes more sense. (Effectively, the character gets points "back" not from the Limitation, but from a Psychological Complication.)

21 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I would suggest looking at "skip over sprayfire" to see that the idea of  "I only hit who I want to" is indeed part of the modern rules, and to perhaps get a feeling of its value in your campaign.

 So an advantage priced like Autofire (1 shot)?

21 hours ago, drunkonduty said:

In this case I'd insist on the the write-up including the Selective advantage. Only vs. Evil then becomes a limitation and can be added to the mix.

My first thought was indeed using a Selective advantage at +¼  that works just like the Selective option to Area of Effect. The blade then becomes something like 2d6 HKA, Selective (+¼), Only affects selected targets that are Evil (-#), OAF (-1).

I wasn't sure if the pricing was right -- this almost works like a Personal Immunity Usable On Others -- but at +¼, it's the same cost as the Autofire (1 shot) idea. Concordance?

9 hours ago, archer said:

If the player uses the weapon to detect if someone is evil or not and just slashes through everything in sight, he needs to buy a Detect evil sensory power as part of the blade.

Agreed.

16 hours ago, massey said:

What's he really getting out of it, anyway?  Detect evil, requires successful attack roll, OAF, linked to HKA?  That's what, like a single character point?  It's not a big deal.

That's... actually kind of brilliant.  You've captured the mechanics perfectly.

But what prevents the HKA from doing damage if no evil is detected? Do you just hand wave it as part of the Linked limitation?

Doug

It seems I phrased my question poorly. How would you implement an advantageous limitation like "Only affects Evil"?

• One intended to have no effect if used against its good owner or good teammates.
• One intended to have no effect on normals (who aren't capital-E Evil).
• One intended to have no effect on non-sapient things (like animals or objects).

Or if you're hung up on the Evil part, how about a different limitation: "Only affects individuals wearing black clothing"?

Doug

Conveniently, everyone on Team Awesome wears all-white uniforms!

So I was thinking about limitations that technically make a power not work on a whole class of things -- limiting! -- but in practice are always to the player's benefit.  For example:

Discount Blade of Zz'ria - 2d6 HKA, OAF (-1), Only affects evil (-1)

Putting aside the numeric value of the limitation (which obviously depends on the morality the campaign), you can see how this limitation isn't very limiting.  Captain Goode was never going to use it on a good person, but now she doesn't actually have to be careful: "Ah, Growing Red wasn't affected by my blade; he must not be a bad guy after all!"  If the blade is stolen by her nemesis Hauptmann Schlecht, she can't be cut by it. If she's mind controlled, she doesn't have to worry about using it against her allies. And so on.

I'm curious how you folks would model this (and these sorts of "limitations" in general). Do you just make the limitation worth 0?  Put on advantages to reflect the uses above (and if so, how do you decide much are those advantages worth)? Maybe use a simple naked advantage and limit that appropriately?

Doug

(You can see the inspiring weapon about halfway down https://uncannyxmen.net/characters/kylun; the new guy tries to decapitate poor Nightcrawler, but the sword passes harmlessly through his neck.)

I voted "Yes".  I've had no reason to make the limitations less limiting than printed.

Gestures: If the character takes damage from or is adversely affected by any power that requires an Attack Roll or MCV Attack Roll while he’s Gesturing, the power doesn’t activate or immediately turns off

Incantations: If he takes damage or is adversely affected by any power that requires an Attack Roll or MCV Attack Roll while he’s Incanting, the power doesn’t turn on or immediately turns off

Doug

(At least in 6E)

4 hours ago, BoloOfEarth said:

In fairness, I see a lot of bicyclists doing the same thing, as if their wheels need to be on the line, not to the right of it.  Although this is the Ann Arbor, MI area, where pedestrians have always laughed at crosswalks, bicyclists seem to outnumber cars lately, and drivers are, well, Michigan drivers so the expletives noted above most likely apply as well.

As a cyclist who prefers not being hit by cars, I'll note "Far too many cyclists, motorists and enforcement officers believe that cyclists need to ride as far to the right as possible, in order to allow a motorist to use the same lane. Neither history nor law support this."

https://cyclingsavvy.org/cycling-law/

As someone who doesn't want to derail a humor thread, do you seriously think cyclists are going to stop just because it gets cold?

Doug

I'll commute as long as it's dry and above freezing... and not a pandemic.

You can also use Combined Attack (6E2 p74, CC p152). Make a single attack roll for the punch and the magic.  If it hits, roll the damage separately for each, and apply defenses separately for each.

However, if you're talking about creating a new spell called "Lighting Fist" (as opposed to adding an existing magic attack to a punch), go with one of the builds above.

Doug

I had to bring it up, given the subject line....

On 8/4/2020 at 4:48 AM, Grailknight said:

Looks like it's a prefab. they could have flown it in in parts by helicopter and assembled it there fairly easily. Must be a pain flying in heating oil and fuel for generators though.

That's Þrídrangaviti lighthouse, built before helicopters were a thing:

https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/nature_and_travel/2017/05/15/incredible_location_for_a_lighthouse_perched_on_a_r/

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/thridrangaviti-lighthouse
 

Doug

Arthur Weasley (Harry Potter): 87%

Hugo 'Hurley' Reyes (LOST): 83%

Hoban Washburne (Firefly + Serenity): 83%

Kevin Malone (The Office): 82%

Abed Nadir (Community): 82%

Steve Brady (Sex and the City): 81%

Vince Masuka (Dexter): 81%

(I'm only familiar with Weasley and Wash)